MDH Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 15 hours ago, The Senator said: I found just the opposite to be true - some were kind, polite, gracious, but most were very abrupt and rude. I suppose it helps if you speak the language. I am not fluent at all, my French is very poor. I remember when they refused to join the coalition against Iraq in 2003 - I swore I’d never drive another Puegot, and never have. We were spilling bottles of Dom and fine French wine down storm sewers, and re-named French Fries... And so we finally get to the real truth. It's not that the French don't like Americans, you don't like the French.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 by the looks of it REAL millionaires are donating Millionaires Francois Henri Pinault and Bernard Arnault donate $339 million to Notre Dame restoration
The Senator Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MDH said: And so we finally get to the real truth. It's not that the French don't like Americans, you don't like the French. Sacre bleu, not true! I made good friends in France, most of whom I have lost touch with, have several great friends from France here in the US, had a wonderful professor from France when I was in Ithaca, two of my largest clients back in the 80s/90s were from Grenoble (HP) and La Gaude (IBM), and I love French food (except for snails) and French wine. I particularly enjoyed the 4 hour dinners with IBM, a different bottle of wine with each course, and - naturally - Cognac or Armagnac afterwards. And, they insisted on picking up the check. Your supposition is a vile canard. . Edited April 16, 2019 by The Senator
BuffaloBill Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Lloyd's of London? I hear you. Priceless artifacts and stained glass. How about you invest in a FIRE suppression system? Quite simply, cost vs. expected risk.
The Senator Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 59 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: by the looks of it REAL millionaires are donating Millionaires Francois Henri Pinault and Bernard Arnault donate $339 million to Notre Dame restoration $339M is a phenomenal amount of money so I hate to say this, but it is a mere pittance of what it will cost to rebuild that structure. There must some French multi-gazillionairres hiding out in Monaco that could bankroll the whole thing. .
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, The Senator said: $339M is a phenomenal amount of money so I hate to say this, but it is a mere pittance of what it will cost to rebuild that structure. There must some French multi-gazillionairres hiding out in Monaco that could bankroll the whole thing. . Agreed. by all accounts its a drop in the collection bowl.
That's No Moon Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Agreed. by all accounts its a drop in the collection bowl. They've raised over 500 million dollars in less than a day from 2 people and one company. They'll bring in billions. Billions. Miraculously all the important art, relics, statuary and stained glass were apparently saved or had just been removed prior to the fire.
BuffaloBill Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: They've raised over 500 million dollars in less than a day from 2 people and one company. They'll bring in billions. Billions. Miraculously all the important art, relics, statuary and stained glass were apparently saved or had just been removed prior to the fire. There were estimates that before the fire it would take $800MM to full restore the structure. It’s hard to say how the fire may have changed this cost estimate. In some ways trying to preserve while repairing may be more costly than simply replacing. The counter to this is what water and structural damage costs will come into play given the fire. There will also be additional costs associated with temporarily stabilizing the structure just to start renovation work. It will take months for engineers and experts to come up with the full cost.
The Senator Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: the Vatican has Trillions, they could easily afford to build a new one. That’s very true. You’d think Pope Francis could pony up a few billion - shouldn’t cost more than that. OTOH, the US spends roughly $7B annually to fund NATO, operate US military bases, and defend Europe, which begs the question - What is France doing with it’s own money? . . Edited April 16, 2019 by The Senator 1
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said: There were estimates that before the fire it would take $800MM to full restore the structure. It’s hard to say how the fire may have changed this cost estimate. In some ways trying to preserve while repairing may be more costly than simply replacing. The counter to this is what water and structural damage costs will come into play given the fire. There will also be additional costs associated with temporarily stabilizing the structure just to start renovation work. It will take months for engineers and experts to come up with the full cost. I would think the bulk of the costs would come in restoration of anything original that is damaged that can be saved. The structural repairs also will depend on how they decide to proceed with it. They are no longer repairing/restoring the existing roof now, so they can weigh options on whether to rebuild using some modern methods and materials or what they can do to replicate what was there. It sounding like it's almost impossible to recreate the original due to there no longer being able to get lumber like what was used. Structural framing that isint visible can always be redone in metal or engineered lumber for the spans. From now on people know that certain parts arent original anymore, so it's not like they need to try an fool people in thinking it's original. The statues, stain glass, fixtures, furniture and finishes will be the stuff that they will want to rebuild and replicate to what was existing before and that's usually the most expensive things. Like in all construction, it's the finishes that drive up the costs of the build.
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, The Senator said: That’s very true. You’d think Pope Francis could pony up a few billion - shouldn’t cost more than that. . Doubtful, their wealth is tied up in real estate (churches) and artifacts (and legal settlements), they arent sitting on a ton of cash. Similar to most million/billionaires, their wealth is in property and what they own, very few are sitting on Scrooge McDuck vaults of cash. Considering they had to pass collection plates to pay for the renovation work that was going on, I doubt they have the money ready to rebuild. This is a good way for the Million/Billionaires to pay their way to a better after life to make up for any shady business/investing to make their money.... 26 minutes ago, The Senator said: OTOH, the US spends roughly $7B annually to fund NATO, operate US military bases, and defend Europe, which begs the question - What is France doing with it’s own money? . . Baguettes and wine ain't cheap........ I did hear that in France, theres an even bigger division between church and state and the government is not allowed to pay for anything associated with religion....
KD in CA Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Sounds like the reconstruction funding effort is off to a 300 million Euro head start. From BBC: Billionaire François-Henri Pinault, chairman and CEO of the Kering group that owns the Gucci and Yves Saint Laurent fashion brands, pledged €100m (£86m; $113m) towards rebuilding Notre-Dame, AFP news agency reports. Another €200m was pledged by Bernard Arnault's family and their company LVMH - a business empire which includes Louis Vuitton and Sephora - on Tuesday morning, according to Reuters news agency. The French charity Fondation du Patrimoine is launching an international appeal for funds for the cathedral, a Unesco World Heritage site. As sad as this is, big tragic events is what opens pocketbooks. I bet they raise 10x what they were asking for the renovations.
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 It's a modern day tragedy but when you think of all the European Cathedrals that were bombed during WW!!, and later rebuilt, it's maybe more imaginable. France "owns" Notre Dam. It's an important a Catholic worship site, but it's also a huge tourist attraction, so there will be $$ to keep that going. Substitute structural steel for the 800 year old timbers and Viola! There are also many stained glass masters in France/Germany that could help with the restoration. 1
Nextmanup Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said: It's a modern day tragedy but when you think of all the European Cathedrals that were bombed during WW!!, and later rebuilt, it's maybe more imaginable. France "owns" Notre Dam. It's an important a Catholic worship site, but it's also a huge tourist attraction, so there will be $$ to keep that going. Substitute structural steel for the 800 year old timbers and Viola! There are also many stained glass masters in France/Germany that could help with the restoration. *voila* viola = 2
BuffaloBill Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: *voila* viola = Maybe it’s like his nose, he means to pick it.
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said: It's a modern day tragedy but when you think of all the European Cathedrals that were bombed during WW!!, and later rebuilt, it's maybe more imaginable. France "owns" Notre Dam. It's an important a Catholic worship site, but it's also a huge tourist attraction, so there will be $$ to keep that going. Substitute structural steel for the 800 year old timbers and Viola! There are also many stained glass masters in France/Germany that could help with the restoration. I was reading something earlier about the stain glass, they said that it may not be possible to reproduce because alot of the techniques and methods for how it was made are lost because no one has done it those ways for centuries. They can make similar ones I guess, but it wont be the same
SomeDudeAtHome Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) So I haven't read through all 7 pages but I read in an article about a number of fire prevention measures they have in place which makes it even more tragic that this happened. In this article for those interested http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/notre-dame-appears-structurally-sound-after-fire-as-investigators-look-for-cause/ar-BBVYTqC?ocid=ientp#image=BBVXSlX|60 Edited April 17, 2019 by SomeDudeAtHome adding article
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 13 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: I was reading something earlier about the stain glass, they said that it may not be possible to reproduce because alot of the techniques and methods for how it was made are lost because no one has done it those ways for centuries. They can make similar ones I guess, but it wont be the same As of today, the glass seems to be mostly OK. It will all be inspected because some of the lead, holding it together, may have taken some heat damage, but when we remember the hoffific pics. during the fire, it's amazing that it mostly all survived. All the stained glass is not original to the initial building. Much of it has been replaced over the years, and that craft continues to live on. 14 hours ago, Nextmanup said: *voila* viola = Looks the same to my old typing skills.
KD in CA Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 14 hours ago, SomeDudeAtHome said: So I haven't read through all 7 pages but I read in an article about a number of fire prevention measures they have in place which makes it even more tragic that this happened. In this article for those interested http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/notre-dame-appears-structurally-sound-after-fire-as-investigators-look-for-cause/ar-BBVYTqC?ocid=ientp#image=BBVXSlX|60 Geez....they couldn’t find the fire after the first alarm? Makes you wonder how much difference it would have made if they responded 20 minutes earlier. Probably a lot. 1
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