ExiledInIllinois Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, Turk71 said: Never been to the R&L but there were a couple of dive bars on Gibson St. across from the market us market maintenance workers would sneak off to when my uncle, Redlinski, and friends would go to the R&L. Most of us were underage, I was 15/16, but had no problem getting served. This was around '77, those bars are gone now. Could have been much worse, thankfully they saved the building. Yeah... The stone ain't going... Read about the frame work... It is much worse!
The Senator Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Turk71 said: Never been to the R&L but there were a couple of dive bars on Gibson St. across from the market us market maintenance workers would sneak off to when my uncle, Redlinski, and friends would go to the R&L. Most of us were underage, I was 15/16, but had no problem getting served. This was around '77, those bars are gone now. Not all of ‘em are gone, but yeah. I’m a couple years older - by ‘77 I was 18 and, at that time, legal - but we never had a problem getting served at Merlin’s when I was sixteen. Neighborhood bars could get away with sh*t that just wouldn’t fly elsewhere. You had a few bucks, you’d get served. When I go to The Market this week to buy our Easter ham, and fresh polish sausage from Lupa’s or Camelia’s (Redlinski fled to Cheektowaga years ago), some freshly ground horseradish, maybe some sponge candy and Crystal Beach suckers, I’ll scout the hood to see what’s left. . Edited April 16, 2019 by The Senator 1
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 42 minutes ago, Turk71 said: Could have been much worse, thankfully they saved the building. I find photos of fire damage to be fastening but they also creep me out, especially something like this, an old church. I'm not surprised that alot of the building structure itself survived being stone/concrete. Although with the building being filled with alot of wood fixtures, and some wood framing thats very old, it can take forever to fully extinguish a fire.
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said: I find photos of fire damage to be fastening but they also creep me out, especially something like this, an old church. I'm not surprised that alot of the building structure itself survived being stone/concrete. Although with the building being filled with alot of wood fixtures, and some wood framing thats very old, it can take forever to fully extinguish a fire. Agree. Amazing... With all the candles in that joint down through the centuries, it is taken down (okay gutted) in 2019. 2019, you would think risk of fire much lower now?
The Senator Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: I find photos of fire damage to be fastening but they also creep me out, especially something like this, an old church. I'm not surprised that alot of the building structure itself survived being stone/concrete. Although with the building being filled with alot of wood fixtures, and some wood framing thats very old, it can take forever to fully extinguish a fire. The recently restored pipe organ had over 8000 pipes, all in wooden cabinetry - plus the bellows and 5-manual console. The carvings were wood, the doors were wood, the ceiling was wood, the pews were wood. (Yes, they had pews in the transept and choir, in the nave they had wooden chairs.) All that wood was old, very dry, and would ignite quickly, I’d imagine. I hope they can save and restore it, but I’m not optimistic. .
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 So sad to see that happen to such an iconic landmark. We were last there on St Patrick's day, 2013. Hopefully, when it's daylight there, they can pinpoint the cause, and see what's salvageable. It will be rebuilt, but not with wood this time. I know a Fire Inspector in NYC who told me that they call the roof of St Patrick's Cathedral, the Lumber Yard. That was just remodeled too, and they added a water misting system on the wood ceiling. 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 9 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: I read somewhere that it was starting to crumble before this fire. here is some info on that. this fire certainly made the possibility of restoration near impossible? Crumbling Notre-Dame cathedral needs €100m from donors to 'avert collapse' Paris' Notre-Dame cathedral faces collapse unless donors stump up €100 million (£87 million) to conduct urgent repair work on its flying buttresses, spire, stained-glass windows, gargoyles and stonework, conservationists have warned. Victor Hugo, who helped save the cathedral almost two centuries ago with his novel The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, would be turning his grave if he could see the state of the cathedral today, they told the Telegraph. "Police in Paris say the cause of the massive fire enveloping the spire of Notre Dame Cathedral isn’t yet known." The Latest on a fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris (all times local): 7:55 p.m. the Vatican has Trillions, they could easily afford to build a new one.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 8 hours ago, GoBills808 said: Pretty much my feelings...if you want it to last forever sans major earthquake/war, build it out of stone. Once you start introducing wood, glass, plaster etc, yeah it's pretty but you're building in a shelf life too. Some report mentioned they were lacking funds for the restoration...anyone happen to know how much fire insurance they had on it? https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/vatican_billions.htm https://www.amazon.com/Vatican-Billions-Avro-Manhattan/dp/0937958166 1
sherpa Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, BuffaloBud said: Really? You ever been there? In person? Ya. Lots. Only in the cathedral a few times, but used to cut across Lle de la Cite frequently to get to the left bank and Latin Quarter/Sorbonne area.
Turk71 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, The Senator said: Not all of ‘em are gone, but yeah. I’m a couple years older - by ‘77 I was 18 and, at that time, legal - but we never had a problem getting served at Merlin’s when I was sixteen. Neighborhood bars could get away with sh*t that just wouldn’t fly elsewhere. You had a few bucks, you’d get served. When I go to The Market this week to buy our Easter ham, and fresh polish sausage from Lupa’s or Camelia’s (Redlinski fled to Cheektowaga years ago), some freshly ground horseradish, maybe some sponge candy and Crystal Beach suckers, I’ll scout the hood to see what’s left. . Where I grew up in SB you could get in the bars at 16 if they liked you. When I graduated 8th grade they served us pitchers of beer at a few of the parties. We used to go to Merlins during free mods senior year. I made a fake sheriff's card in my backyard when I was 16 with a red blanket and a polaroid that got me into bars outside my neighborhood. Mickey Rats in Angola, Mulligans Beach Club, Brick Bar Allentown, etc. It fell apart eventually and was confiscated at Mulligans Sunset Beach a week before my 18th birthday.☺️
Shamrock Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 14 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2019/04/15/incendie-en-cours-dans-la-cathedrale-notre-dame-de-paris_5450533_3224.html Claude Drollo and Quasimodo brought it to life so many years ago. Wow, it’s survived a lot of history. I understand that Francois Pinault is chipping in a lazy $100,000,000 Euros. Guess being married to Salma Hayek, he’s already won the lottery of life. 1
Nextmanup Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 Sounds like the reconstruction funding effort is off to a 300 million Euro head start. From BBC: Billionaire François-Henri Pinault, chairman and CEO of the Kering group that owns the Gucci and Yves Saint Laurent fashion brands, pledged €100m (£86m; $113m) towards rebuilding Notre-Dame, AFP news agency reports. Another €200m was pledged by Bernard Arnault's family and their company LVMH - a business empire which includes Louis Vuitton and Sephora - on Tuesday morning, according to Reuters news agency. The French charity Fondation du Patrimoine is launching an international appeal for funds for the cathedral, a Unesco World Heritage site. 1 1
Bill from NYC Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800?fbclid=IwAR0yYTV96wVuhmKAVemx4pAkyiaFnHhbhQkd7KJv5u3AIk3PCMzlp-OkIW4 What a coincidence!
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: the Vatican has Trillions, they could easily afford to build a new one. I wonder what a skybox will go for? Annual seat licensing? * One can hardly wait for all the conspiracy theories regarding the fire’s origin to begin floating around.
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said: I wonder what a skybox will go for? Annual seat licensing? * One can hardly wait for all the conspiracy theories regarding the fire’s origin to begin floating around. It's already started. (Just look above you) Close to one of the biggest catholic holidays, start of holy week, other churches being vandalized. Of course it was also undergoing massive renovations to the area where the fire started which is much more difficult to access then where the damage and vandalism was done in other churches. It's easy to assume that it must be terrorist (seen many comments already just saying it was muslims) and not a construction accident. Some comments I read said it couldnt have been from the work cause workers left 2 hours before they think it started. Of course in an old structure like that it doesnt matter because it can take time for a fire to actually start flaming. I saw a fire that was caused by a discarded cigarette butt thrown by a roofer off a roof that was blown into an attic space during the day. The home owner noticed her attic was on fire around 10-11pm that night. Depending on the damage and the cooperation from the contractors/workers, it may never be known how it actually started.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 What? No one had insurance on this piece of History?
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: What? No one had insurance on this piece of History? I expect that whomever had the remodel contract had some. If it's proven that the fire started there, they are in deep merde.
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said: I expect that whomever had the remodel contract had some. If it's proven that the fire started there, they are in deep merde. Yeah, might be difficult to get work on an office building or apartment doing Reno work after you become known for your work starting a fire that almost destroyed a historic 800+ year old building. Probably going to be impossible to get contractors insurance again too.... 11 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: What? No one had insurance on this piece of History? How do you insure it though? I have read some articles saying you couldnt get insurance for it, and if it was possible, the premiums would be astronomical. I would assume that there was insurance to protect most of the valuables inside, but the building itself probably not. What insurance company could afford to insure a building like that?
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: Yeah, might be difficult to get work on an office building or apartment doing Reno work after you become known for your work starting a fire that almost destroyed a historic 800+ year old building. Probably going to be impossible to get contractors insurance again too.... How do you insure it though? I have read some articles saying you couldnt get insurance for it, and if it was possible, the premiums would be astronomical. I would assume that there was insurance to protect most of the valuables inside, but the building itself probably not. What insurance company could afford to insure a building like that? Lloyd's of London? I hear you. Priceless artifacts and stained glass. How about you invest in a FIRE suppression system?
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Lloyd's of London? I hear you. Priceless artifacts and stained glass. How about you invest in a FIRE suppression system? Did areas of the building have fire suppression? They may have only had it in certain areas where people would be normally. Most of the time they arent going to spend the money to install it in areas that are low risk for a fire starting, like an attic space unless people use it alot or it contains equipment that can start a fire. The roof was lead, with wood framing supporting it, and I'm assuming plaster to the underside. From the looks of a few photos I saw of it before, that attic area didnt contain anything but some walkways that dont appear to be frequently used. A construction/renovation accident is probably the only way that area would/could catch fire.
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