Bills new workout facility

[eball]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Pegs inherited a team that had been built into a decidedly playoff caliber roster.    Expectations were high.......cap dollars were invested.

 

The team proceeded to greatly underachieve for two years under their hand picked hire Rex Ryan.

 

Then after lowered expectations they barely scraped into a wildcard spot with one more win than Rex's 2015 team........and McDermott's 2017 Bills team was outscored by 4 points per game on average.   A total anomaly.   No team has reached the playoffs from the AFC with that big of a point differential since the 1989 Steelers.    

 

Thru what you call their "4th full season" of ownership I guess then The Pegs are 30-34.   That isn't disappointing to you?   Would you have happily signed up for that 4 years ago?

 

In my estimation the Pegulas have only made one major blunder with respect to the Bills -- hiring Rex.  It was a "flashy" move completely driven by Russ Brandon -- a man they trusted, the guy who "shepherded" them through the sale process.  They got burned.  As I've mentioned in other threads Whaley was in over his head -- a fantastic scout and talent evaluator who had no clue how to build a team and didn't (as far as we know) exert his influence nearly enough in the HC hiring process.

 

Aside from that I have few complaints.  Yes, the W-L record hasn't been stellar but everything is trending in the right direction.  I believe (you may disagree) that Beane in particular was a home run hire.  I love the culture McD has instilled but he has yet to show me he's a better-than-average game day coach.

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, White Linen said:

 

I said they do not mess around.  I am correct.

 

 

Oh they've messed around plenty with their sports ops.  

 

They are on their 6th head coach already on the hockey end...........just throwing sh*t at the wall and seeing if it sticks is "messing around".

 

Being willing to spend whatever it takes in pursuit of getting it right is great but ask Dan Snyder how that has worked out for him.    You quickly go from the owner who wants to win more than anything to the owner who nobody wants to work for.        

[Doc]

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The Pegs inherited a team that had been built into a decidedly playoff caliber roster.    Expectations were high.......cap dollars were invested.

 

The team proceeded to greatly underachieve for two years under their hand picked hire Rex Ryan.

 

Then after lowered expectations they barely scraped into a wildcard spot with one more win than Rex's 2015 team........and McDermott's 2017 Bills team was outscored by 4 points per game on average.   A total anomaly.   No team has reached the playoffs from the AFC with that big of a point differential since the 1989 Steelers.    

 

Thru what you call their "4th full season" of ownership I guess then The Pegs are 30-34.   That isn't disappointing to you?   Would you have happily signed up for that 4 years ago?

 

It's not what I call it: it is what it is.  Last year was their 4th full season of ownership.  They had no real influence over the first season, although it was a winning one (thanks in large part to Kyle Orton, who retired after the season, which a major reason Marrone decided to quit).  So if you want to add that onto the win-loss record, be my guest.

 

And again, like I said, they were the 2nd best new owners out of the last 10.  Sure Rex Ryan was a mistake, but thankfully a brief one and they made the playoffs the following year.  So hell yeah, I'd take a 30-34 record with a playoff appearance (spare me your banal excuses for why they were lucky to make them, the fact is they did), drafting what appears to be a franchise QB, and the off-season additions (with more to come).  The best appears yet to come and truly best of all, the team won't be leaving in my lifetime.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Doc

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, eball said:

 

In my estimation the Pegulas have only made one major blunder with respect to the Bills -- hiring Rex.  It was a "flashy" move completely driven by Russ Brandon -- a man they trusted, the guy who "shepherded" them through the sale process.  They got burned.  As I've mentioned in other threads Whaley was in over his head -- a fantastic scout and talent evaluator who had no clue how to build a team and didn't (as far as we know) exert his influence nearly enough in the HC hiring process.

 

Aside from that I have few complaints.  Yes, the W-L record hasn't been stellar but everything is trending in the right direction.  I believe (you may disagree) that Beane in particular was a home run hire.  I love the culture McD has instilled but he has yet to show me he's a better-than-average game day coach.

 

 

From an outside perspective people see McDermott's losing record and the fact that he traded away the QB who would become the NFL MVP.......a no doubt franchise QB......a year later as mistakes by The Pegs.   On a more micro level he's also been the worst Bills head coach thru 4 games against Belichick since BB came to NE.

 

And remember, McDermott replaced Anthony Lynn who The Pegs chose not to re-hire...........Anthony Lynn is 21-11 as a HC of a Chargers team that basically hasn't had a home field advantage for two full seasons and also ANNIHILATED the Bills in the two matchups between Lynn and McDermott.    There are also no Peterman's in Lynn's closet to date.

 

I hope McD and Beane work out but it's been anything but a slam dunk and if they don't win big things like passing on the NFL MVP(McD empowered by The Pegs) and passing on a HC with .656 winning %(The Pegs) are pretty egregious examples.     

 

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's not what I call it: it is what it is.  Last year was their 4th full season of ownership.  They had no real influence over the first season, although it was a winning one (thanks in large part to Kyle Orton, who retired after the season, which a major reason Marrone decided to quit).

 

And again, like I said, they were the 2nd best new owners out of the last 10.  So hell yeah, I'd take a 30-34 record with a playoff appearance (spare me your banal excuses for why they were lucky to make them, the fact is they did), drafting what appears to be a franchise QB, and the off-season additions (with more to come).  The best appears yet to come and truly best of all, the team won't be leaving in my lifetime.

 

 

So they inherited a 9-7 team and have been 30-34 since?   And that's.......good?

 

I hope these dudes win but I am so tired of hearing about how they are on the upswing.   Results please.   They've been on the upswing according to you for probably 13 of the last 15 years.

 

 

[Andrew Son]

@BADOLBILZ can steer any discussion in this direction.  Truly impressive.  And he hasn't even unleashed his big guns yet- multiple sunglass emoji's.  That's when you know to pull up a chair because school is in session.    

 

I wonder if he even has to write any of this stuff anymore.  Probably just copy/pasted from a master file.

[eball]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

From an outside perspective people see McDermott's losing record and the fact that he traded away the QB who would become the NFL MVP.......a no doubt franchise QB......a year later as mistakes by The Pegs.   On a more micro level he's also been the worst Bills head coach thru 4 games against Belichick since BB came to NE.

 

And remember, McDermott replaced Anthony Lynn who The Pegs chose not to re-hire...........Anthony Lynn is 21-11 as a HC of a Chargers team that basically hasn't had a home field advantage for two full seasons and also ANNIHILATED the Bills in the two matchups between Lynn and McDermott.    There are also no Peterman's in Lynn's closet to date.

 

I hope McD and Beane work out but it's been anything but a slam dunk and if they don't win big things like passing on the NFL MVP(McD empowered by The Pegs) and passing on a HC with .656 winning %(The Pegs) are pretty egregious examples.     

 

 

The Chargers have one of the most talented rosters in the league, led by a fringe HOF-caliber QB.  As we've debated in other threads, the Bills (Beane/McD) made a conscious decision to turn away from the roster Whaley left them.  Whether you agree or disagree with what they did and why, the roster lost talent and it's actually pretty remarkable they won 6 games a year ago.  The point is they have a plan and are seeing it through.

 

I think it's disingenuous (at best) to continue to bring up Mahomes as a "blunder" by McD or the Pegulas.  He was FAR from a "sure thing" prospect and he wound up in a perfect spot.  I won't blame a first-year HC for catering to his strengths and acquiring a talent like Tre White.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

@BADOLBILZ can steer any discussion in this direction.  Truly impressive.  And he hasn't even unleashed his big guns yet- multiple sunglass emoji's.  That's when you know to pull up a chair because school is in session.    

 

I wonder if he even has to write any of this stuff anymore.  Probably just copy/pasted from a master file.

 

 

It's been 20 years since the team was a contender.......it writes itself. (this is the first time I've EVER used multiple btw.......never considered it.......but now that I know it bothers you)

 

The only thing that is going to change the broader perception of The Pegs as owners is WINNING RESULTS.

 

The main thing that matters about a workout facility in this equation is that they keep the staph infections to a minimum.    That's when you get negative national pub.  

 

You guys can be mad about it and off-season-bravado-sarcastic about it all you want.............like mockingly saying "Ralph is cheap" every time the Ralph Bills signed a free agent(even though Littman was making sure to save $30M on the payroll every year).............ultimately it's just about results.

 

[Andrew Son]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The only thing that is going to change the broader perception of The Pegs as owners is WINNING RESULTS.

 

 

Everyone knows this.  Some, however, choose BILLieve that we are headed in the right direction.  Nobody knows how things will play out moving forward- I'll choose optimism.  

 

You're the Colin Cowherd of this board.  Stating the obvious, and presenting it as some sort of deep insight.  

 

Yes, the bills have sucked for 20 years.  We get it.

 

So, these new facilities are nice, huh?

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The Chargers have one of the most talented rosters in the league, led by a fringe HOF-caliber QB.  As we've debated in other threads, the Bills (Beane/McD) made a conscious decision to turn away from the roster Whaley left them.  Whether you agree or disagree with what they did and why, the roster lost talent and it's actually pretty remarkable they won 6 games a year ago.  The point is they have a plan and are seeing it through.

 

I think it's disingenuous (at best) to continue to bring up Mahomes as a "blunder" by McD or the Pegulas.  He was FAR from a "sure thing" prospect and he wound up in a perfect spot.  I won't blame a first-year HC for catering to his strengths and acquiring a talent like Tre White.

 

 

1) The Chargers were 9-23 in the two season prior to hiring Anthony Lynn.    22-11 since hiring Anthony Lynn.   I guess they must have just got talented over night.   Wouldn't that be nice.

 

2) The word you should be using is "ingenuous"...........as in "frank"........factual.........real.      He was the 2018 MVP of the NFL..........that's greatness.   You can't argue that.   This isn't like Tom Brady getting passed over by every NFL team 5 times.............the Chiefs believed he would be great.........he was a highly regarded prospect,  a virtual first round lock so his potential to be a franchise QB was not a secret..........the Bills passed on selecting him.   Results oriented business.    You can't say trust the process and then "well who knew THAT could happen"...........if you are trusting that one is working in the best interest of the organization then you expect the best interest of the organization to be ACHIEVED.    Passing on Mahomes was NOT that.

 

I think the one consistent among apologists on this board is that acceptance of mediocre to decent performance...........how exactly do you expect to finish first in the standings if you aren't the team HIRING the coach who wins more or DRAFTING the QB who wins league MVP?      Overall middling performance in the front office or coaching staff will yield middling results.    It's OK to expect more.   Really, it is.

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's been 20 years since the team was a contender.......it writes itself. (this is the first time I've EVER used multiple btw.......never considered it.......but now that I know it bothers you)

 

The only thing that is going to change the broader perception of The Pegs as owners is WINNING RESULTS.

 

The main thing that matters about a workout facility in this equation is that they keep the staph infections to a minimum.    That's when you get negative national pub.  

 

You guys can be mad about it and off-season-bravado-sarcastic about it all you want.............like mockingly saying "Ralph is cheap" every time the Ralph Bills signed a free agent(even though Littman was making sure to save $30M on the payroll every year).............ultimately it's just about results.

 

 

I thought the "sunglass wearing emoji" was your vision of a bright Buffalo Bills future.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

30 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

@BADOLBILZ can steer any discussion in this direction.  Truly impressive.  And he hasn't even unleashed his big guns yet- multiple sunglass emoji's.  That's when you know to pull up a chair because school is in session.    

 

I wonder if he even has to write any of this stuff anymore.  Probably just copy/pasted from a master file.

 

...LMAO...he and SoTier could make the sun take cover......

[eball]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) The Chargers were 9-23 in the two season prior to hiring Anthony Lynn.    22-11 since hiring Anthony Lynn.   I guess they must have just got talented over night.   Wouldn't that be nice.

 

2) The word you should be using is "ingenuous"...........as in "frank"........factual.........real.      He was the 2018 MVP of the NFL..........that's greatness.   You can't argue that.   This isn't like Tom Brady getting passed over by every NFL team 5 times.............the Chiefs believed he would be great.........he was a highly regarded prospect,  a virtual first round lock so his potential to be a franchise QB was not a secret..........the Bills passed on selecting him.   Results oriented business.    You can't say trust the process and then "well who knew THAT could happen"...........if you are trusting that one is working in the best interest of the organization then you expect the best interest of the organization to be ACHIEVED.    Passing on Mahomes was NOT that.

 

I think the one consistent among apologists on this board is that acceptance of mediocre to decent performance...........how exactly do you expect to finish first in the standings if you aren't the team HIRING the coach who wins more or DRAFTING the QB who wins league MVP?      Overall middling performance in the front office or coaching staff will yield middling results.    It's OK to expect more.   Really, it is.

 

Just because you keep repeating yourself doesn't mean you're right.  Really.  Who is accepting mediocrity?  Most of us are talking about what looks like a cohesive plan that is moving the team forward.  You like to live in a world of 20-20 hindsight, which is really easy and lazy.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Everyone knows this.  Some, however, choose BILLieve that we are headed in the right direction.  Nobody knows how things will play out moving forward- I'll choose optimism.  

 

You're the Colin Cowherd of this board.  Stating the obvious, and presenting it as some sort of deep insight.  

 

Yes, the bills have sucked for 20 years.  We get it.

 

So, these new facilities are nice, huh?

 

 

I think you are quite clearly wrong about everyone knowing this.    

 

Doc doesn't know it...........he has developed a new criteria altogether that proves that The Pegs are unbelievably successful on the field in comparison to their peer owners.

 

eball doesn't know it...........he thinks more successful organizations must have a huge advantage or their results don't matter or whatever he needs his mind to believe to see the Bills as a relative success story.

 

You joined in because you want to be lumped in with opinions like THAT?  

 

Maybe..........just maybe.........the fact that I wasn't talking to you means that I wasn't talking to you.   

 

And as far as "choosing optimism"...........if you want to spend your time daydreaming about the future results that's fine...........I will live in the moment and take them as they come.     

 

So let me ask you............since you are so sure of the teams direction.......presumably for the first time in a very long time?........when do McD's Bills win the Lombardi?    What season?  

[dubs]

20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

More accurately........they won't be outspent.

 

Sometimes that's not a good thing...........like the outrageous contract they gave Rex.........guaranteeing him $25M at that stage of his career was a disincentive.

 

But this facility is awesome and a good coaching staff and personnel department certainly has few if any excuses left now.

 

Until proven otherwise though The Pegs are flying totally blind with regard to the football and hockey ops.   The Bills have disappointed under The Pegs but an 8 year playoff drought for an NHL team is more impressively bad than the Bills playoff drought.   A frickin' expansion team made the NHL finals last year and yet the Sabres have been one of the worst teams in pro sports for almost the entire time The Pegs have owned them.

 

Um, the new workout facility is awesome. End of discussion. 

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I thought the "sunglass wearing emoji" was your vision of a bright Buffalo Bills future.

 

 

 

The deal with the emoji's is that Scott and the mods want me to be nicer to the faint hearted on the board.............so I use them to express that I am light hearted about the discussion.   Because I am.    This isn't life and death.    It's discussion about sports entertainment.......nothing else.   

 

[Andrew Son]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You joined in because you want to be lumped in with opinions like THAT?  

 

 

So let me ask you............since you are so sure of the teams direction.......presumably for the first time in a very long time?........when do McD's Bills win the Lombardi?    What season?  

I simply joined in because I fear you are cruising past "beaten horse" territory and closing in on a crusade.  Anytime anyone posts anything positive on the Pegula's, Beane, or McD- you run in with your wet blanket.  I think we all understand your stance.

 

And I clearly said there is no way of knowing the direction.  Just that I'm hopeful.  Personally, for me, It's all about Josh Allen.  I was one of the few like liked him coming out of college, and I think he's a franchise guy.  If he is, is it crazy to think that we could compete as early as this year?  And for years to come?

[GreggTX]

This tells me and everyone in the NFL that the Pegula's will spare no expense to make this franchise 2nd to none. That's good for recruitment at all levels of the organization -- From top to bottom.

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Just because you keep repeating yourself doesn't mean you're right.  Really.  Who is accepting mediocrity?  Most of us are talking about what looks like a cohesive plan that is moving the team forward.  You like to live in a world of 20-20 hindsight, which is really easy and lazy.

 

 

 

I am admittedly more results based.......nothing wrong with that.    It's fair to the parties involved.

 

But it's highly inaccurate to say that I live in a world of 20-20 hindsight.............I called McD's use of Jauron ball in 2017 to a tee...........I predicted Shaq and Ragnuts mediocrity to a tee........I had Tre White as the top CB in the draft when most of you hadn't spent a second considering him as a draft prospect.   There are tons of examples.   I even predicted Shady would quit and be in radio a couple years ago...........and I took a lot of heat for that..........until it became clear that he should have!  Now I never hear about it.

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The deal with the emoji's is that Scott and the mods want me to be nicer to the faint hearted on the board.............so I use them to express that I am light hearted about the discussion.   Because I am.    This isn't life and death.    It's discussion about sports entertainment.......nothing else.   

 

 

It is suppose to be about entertainment. 

Personally I lean toward the "homer" because I want to.  I'm trying to enjoy sports the way I did when I was a kid.

Usually I leave the 2 extreme viewpoints alone.