C.Biscuit97 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: A JAG that was a Product of opportunity He started on SB champions. You’re normally really reasonable but I don’t know why you don’t let this one go haha. If Hogan is a JAG, what is D’Rick? its like JaMarcus Russell was much more talented than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Who’s career would you rather have? Also, Hogan had better combine numbers than Robert Woods. He’s a pretty good athlete. 1
Stank_Nasty Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He had 34 receptions for 542 yards and 4 TDs in 9 postseason games, which is very solid. He's also a very good blocker. He played more offensive snaps than any other Patriots player aside from Brady and the o-line in the SB against the Falcons -- a massive 97 snaps, which is like two games for most players -- and his block on the game-tying 2 pt conversion to get Amendola into the end zone was textbook and play-deciding. He also played more snaps than any other players besides Brady, Gronk, and the o-line in the next SB (93 percent) - a game that the Pats shattered the record for offensive yardage. He's basically a JAG as a receiver, but the reason he played so many snaps is that he does all the other things well in what is a very complex and multi-faceted offense. these are all really fair and informative points. thank you. now with that said i'll ask you a question..... as a team that i think we call can agree is devoid of outside talent, why did they just let him walk? and do you think they'll skip a beat without him? i'm not trying to be a jerk. i'm honestly curious. IMO they wont skip a beat. plug in another journeyman and away they go. Edited April 12, 2019 by Stank_Nasty
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said: Hogan is a solid WR3. Would the Bills have been off having Hogan or not? That’s what I don’t get. No one says he’s a superstar but he was better than a lot of the scrubs we had the last few years. only Bills fans can think a guy who started for the Pats isn’t good enough for us. 3
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: these are all really fair and informative points. thank you. now with that said i'll ask you a question..... as a team that i think we call can agree is devoid of outside talent, why did they just let him walk? and do you think they'll skip a beat without him? i'm not trying to be a jerk. i'm honestly curious. IMO they wont skip a beat. plug in another journeyman and away they go. Despite the good things that he does, I honestly don't think he's good enough as a receiver in terms of getting open, and the Pats have a 20-year habit of preferring to dump people early rather than late. It's how they roll. They probably figured that he's the type of player who has a solid 4-5 year window, and that window is now closing - as it does for most players. They got their money's worth from him, and now they're done. It's not like he's going to get any faster or more elusive going forward. What's more likely to happen is that all of the nagging injuries he's accumulated plus age-related decline are going to slow him down. He'll be 31 when the season starts. From his perspective, he got to play in three Super Bowls for a legendary team, and he performed pretty heroically in a couple of those Super Bowls. 10 years down the line, many people will know who Chris Hogan is, but they won't know who Charles Clay is. The point is, he got his share of glory out of the deal. Edited April 12, 2019 by dave mcbride 1
MJS Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Bashing the Bills for letting him go is hardly "you would have thought we let a first ballot wr walk," as said above, or the snideness of "prior to Canton" in the headline. And that's the kind of stuff that always gets said, never by folks who like Hogan. Always by people making fun of the folks who criticized the Hogan cut. If anything it proves the original point. The actual criticism was extremely reasonable. That's why the folks who didn't like it even to this day have to wildly exaggerate what was actually said. Whaley cut Hogan largely because he'd been such a spendthrift that we were in cap trouble despite being a team that was at best mediocre. We were in such crap shape that they could give Hogan only a minimum salary one year tender. Whaley tried to keep him, and couldn't. And the cheap-ass Pats gave him $4 mill a year over three years, and structured the contract to stop Buffalo from matching. "The Patriots signed Hogan to a three-year, $12 million offer sheet that will have a high amount of guaranteed money. ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that the three-year offer sheet will feature a $5.5 million salary cap hit for the 2016 season. With a $5.5 million cap hit for the upcoming season, the Bills would have been left with under $1 million in current cap space -- making their ability to match the offer sheet highly unlikely. The Bills chose to use the lowest possible tender on Hogan, which gave them a cap hit of $1.671 million, and in doing so they only assured themselves the right of first refusal for the wide receiver. The Bills did not match the offer sheet, and because it's the lowest tender, they will receive no draft pick compensation from New England." https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/bills-decline-offer-hogan-headed-to-patriots Incompetence, poor cap handling, tendering him for less than half of what he eventually got per year and being outsmarted and outmaneuvered by Belichick. Of course we were pissed. Rightly so. You didn't have to think Hogan was Megatron to think the Bills *****ed that up. Hell, you didn't have to think Hogan was an above average #3 receiver. He'd been the 3rd most productive WR on the Bills. During his first year with the Patriots, we brought in Percy Harvin for $6 mill and got nothing. Woods was our most productive WR with 613 yards, Watkins and Goodwin were #2 and #3 with 430 and 431 yards. But yeah, we had all the receivers we needed. Justin Hunter was our #4 with 189. And Hogan got 680 on 58 targets and 38 catches in NE, and that would have made him the most productive on our team. People were pissed because how it happened was utterly stupid, because they could have had him for a lot less than Belichick - a fairly smart cookie, they say -ended up paying him, and because he was a decent player replaced by guys who weren't as good. It was a move that sucked. And this is what I'm talking about. All this passion for a 3rd/4th WR. A guy who we should have forgotten about 1 season later and yet people are still talking about how horrible it was to this day. Sorry, but I think there are FAR greater blunders from Whaley and practically any GM in the league to complain about. Yet the Hogan situation will continue to be cited as one of his biggest blunders, which is just comical to me.
Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, MJS said: And this is what I'm talking about. All this passion for a 3rd/4th WR. A guy who we should have forgotten about 1 season later and yet people are still talking about how horrible it was to this day. Sorry, but I think there are FAR greater blunders from Whaley and practically any GM in the league to complain about. Yet the Hogan situation will continue to be cited as one of his biggest blunders, which is just comical to me. Again, you are mischaracterizing the sentiment at the time.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2019 Author Posted April 12, 2019 44 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He started on SB champions. You’re normally really reasonable but I don’t know why you don’t let this one go haha. If Hogan is a JAG, what is D’Rick? its like JaMarcus Russell was much more talented than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Who’s career would you rather have? Also, Hogan had better combine numbers than Robert Woods. He’s a pretty good athlete. He’s a good athlete but he’s an absolute JAG. He’s Andre Holmes that did a stint with Tom Brady. He’s a back of the roster receiver that was WAY overhyped when he was here and especially when he went to the Pats. The same thing happened with Chandler and Gillislee. It was going to haunt us forever. The reality is those guys were no better there than in Buffalo (and in some cases worse). Hogan is a dbag that’s not a very good football player. He got a chance and carved a career out of it. A ton of guys though could have had a similar career with similar opportunity.
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He’s a good athlete but he’s an absolute JAG. He’s Andre Holmes that did a stint with Tom Brady. He’s a back of the roster receiver that was WAY overhyped when he was here and especially when he went to the Pats. The same thing happened with Chandler and Gillislee. It was going to haunt us forever. The reality is those guys were no better there than in Buffalo (and in some cases worse). Hogan is a dbag that’s not a very good football player. He got a chance and carved a career out of it. A ton of guys though could have had a similar career with similar opportunity. I think you're oversimplifying here, Kirby. See what I wrote above about him. As a pass catching receiver he's a JAG, but pass catching is only part of what's expected of NE receivers. Also, comparing him to Chandler and Gillislee is off the mark. Those two players failed in NE and were unceremoniously dumped to the curb in short order. Edited April 12, 2019 by dave mcbride 1
Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2019 Author Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: I think you're oversimplifying here, Kirby. See what I wrote above about him. As a pass catching receiver he's a JAG, but pass catching is only part of what's expected of NE receivers. That’s fair and he is a very good blocker. By the same token Holmes is a very good ST player.
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: That’s fair and he is a very good blocker. By the same token Holmes is a very good ST player. I'm not talking about special teams play, though, so I think the analogy is off. I'm talking about his performance as a complementary player in a very complex offense. He consistently played an outsized number of snaps in his three years there.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2019 Author Posted April 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: I'm not talking about special teams play, though, so I think the analogy is off. I'm talking about his performance as a complementary player in a very complex offense. He consistently played an outsized number of snaps in his three years there. Fair but he certainly wasn’t considered indispensable to them. He was sitting on the open market in the middle of April.
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Fair but he certainly wasn’t considered indispensable to them. He was sitting on the open market in the middle of April. I never said he was. As I said above, he's not a good enough receiver in terms of beating guys and getting open. But there's much more to the game than that, and NE's approach to offensive scheming and utilizing complementary parts is so much more sophisticated than what we're used to. Perhaps most importantly, though, he's going to be 31 when the season starts, and he's not going to get any better. My guess is that he plays until he's 32-33, which ain't bad for a UDFA. Edited April 12, 2019 by dave mcbride 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He’s a good athlete but he’s an absolute JAG. He’s Andre Holmes that did a stint with Tom Brady. He’s a back of the roster receiver that was WAY overhyped when he was here and especially when he went to the Pats. The same thing happened with Chandler and Gillislee. It was going to haunt us forever. The reality is those guys were no better there than in Buffalo (and in some cases worse). Hogan is a dbag that’s not a very good football player. He got a chance and carved a career out of it. A ton of guys though could have had a similar career with similar opportunity. And there it is!!! Why did he do to you Kirby? Quick story: I went to Syracuse football camp and McNabb was there because my high school coach used to coach there. Anyways, we got pizza and I only had one slice but was getting excited to have some more later. So McNabb talks to us for awhile and afterwards, he takes the rest of the pizza! MFer!!! So for a long time, I irrationally hated McNabb! And former Sabre Derek Roy crop dusted me when we were talking to a group of girls. So I hated him too. so did hogan steal your pizza or crop dust you? And can you just admit, once and for all, you took the L on the Hogan- Da’Rick debate?
BillyWhiteShows Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Prior to Canton? Is this a joke?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, BillyWhiteShows said: Prior to Canton? Is this a joke? Yes. Chris Hogan is a joke. 1
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 If he's in Carolina, that means Beane will for sure want to sign him next season. 1
Gigs Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Utah John said: He was a good player who got into the league only because the Bills gave him a chance. He made a business decision to move to the Patriots, and it worked out for him. He did much better there than he would have here -- what receiver wouldn't do better catching Brady darts? Hogan's game meshed well with the Patriots' offense, too. I think you meant Dolphins. We merely picked him up for depth. He wasn't all-world for the Patriots either. He did what was asked of him. It's the Belichick way. Anybody could've been Hogan
Misterbluesky Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 I loved him as a Bill...blue collar,rode his bicycle to the stadium for practices and games...even in the winter when he would put the breaks on his bike and help people shovel snow.Dude never took a lazy day off.. Talent-C+ Heart-A+ Effort-A+ 4
LSHMEAB Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 4 hours ago, NewEra said: You THOUGHT it was poor management. In hindsight, it was a GREAT move. Milano >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gillislee Not enough >>>>>'s. Milano in the fifth has been the best draft choice of the Beane/McDermott era. "All he does is make plays" in my Buddy Ryan accent even though I can't recall his voice. 1
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