Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, MJS said: That's simply not true. Hogan had a cult of pissed off followers that continually bashed the Bills for letting him go. He was never "hyped" "as though we had let a first ballot wr walk". THAT's simply not how it went. 55 minutes ago, NewEra said: Imo, the posters who supported him hated Whaley. It wasn’t that we let him go. It was HOW we let him go. That we didn’t tender him properly. I'll agree with this. 1
Thurman#1 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MJS said: That's simply not true. Hogan had a cult of pissed off followers that continually bashed the Bills for letting him go. Bashing the Bills for letting him go is hardly "you would have thought we let a first ballot wr walk," as said above, or the snideness of "prior to Canton" in the headline. And that's the kind of stuff that always gets said, never by folks who like Hogan. Always by people making fun of the folks who criticized the Hogan cut. If anything it proves the original point. The actual criticism was extremely reasonable. That's why the folks who didn't like it even to this day have to wildly exaggerate what was actually said. Whaley cut Hogan largely because he'd been such a spendthrift that we were in cap trouble despite being a team that was at best mediocre. We were in such crap shape that they could give Hogan only a minimum salary one year tender. Whaley tried to keep him, and couldn't. And the cheap-ass Pats gave him $4 mill a year over three years, and structured the contract to stop Buffalo from matching. "The Patriots signed Hogan to a three-year, $12 million offer sheet that will have a high amount of guaranteed money. ESPN's Adam Schefter reported that the three-year offer sheet will feature a $5.5 million salary cap hit for the 2016 season. With a $5.5 million cap hit for the upcoming season, the Bills would have been left with under $1 million in current cap space -- making their ability to match the offer sheet highly unlikely. The Bills chose to use the lowest possible tender on Hogan, which gave them a cap hit of $1.671 million, and in doing so they only assured themselves the right of first refusal for the wide receiver. The Bills did not match the offer sheet, and because it's the lowest tender, they will receive no draft pick compensation from New England." https://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/bills-decline-offer-hogan-headed-to-patriots Incompetence, poor cap handling, tendering him for less than half of what he eventually got per year and being outsmarted and outmaneuvered by Belichick. Of course we were pissed. Rightly so. You didn't have to think Hogan was Megatron to think the Bills *****ed that up. Hell, you didn't have to think Hogan was an above average #3 receiver. He'd been the 3rd most productive WR on the Bills. During his first year with the Patriots, we brought in Percy Harvin for $6 mill and got nothing. Woods was our most productive WR with 613 yards, Watkins and Goodwin were #2 and #3 with 430 and 431 yards. But yeah, we had all the receivers we needed. Justin Hunter was our #4 with 189. And Hogan got 680 on 58 targets and 38 catches in NE, and that would have made him the most productive on our team. People were pissed because how it happened was utterly stupid, because they could have had him for a lot less than Belichick - a fairly smart cookie, they say -ended up paying him, and because he was a decent player replaced by guys who weren't as good. It was a move that sucked. Edited April 12, 2019 by Thurman#1 1 2
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, MJS said: That's simply not true. Hogan had a cult of pissed off followers that continually bashed the Bills for letting him go. This isn't actually true. 2
Bill from NYC Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Nah. It's more accurate to say that posters who were down on Hogan were railing against "the hype"....that really never existed. Posters who supported keeping him here noted the WR corps as it was, was slim. Simple. No need to manufacture "hype" to rail against it. Was it his fault that he didn't have a decent QB throwing him the ball? Hogan wasn't a great receiver but a player of his caliber is useful. He certainly wasn't a bad player. 1 1
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: his first season there he went off and had 9 for 180 in the afc title game and a large chunk of fans and national media crucified the bills for letting him walk for about a full year after that. "even a blind squirrel....." He had 34 receptions for 542 yards and 4 TDs in 9 postseason games, which is very solid. He's also a very good blocker. He played more offensive snaps than any other Patriots player aside from Brady and the o-line in the SB against the Falcons -- a massive 97 snaps, which is like two games for most players -- and his block on the game-tying 2 pt conversion to get Amendola into the end zone was textbook and play-deciding. He also played more snaps than any other players besides Brady, Gronk, and the o-line in the next SB (93 percent) - a game that the Pats shattered the record for offensive yardage. He's basically a JAG as a receiver, but the reason he played so many snaps is that he does all the other things well in what is a very complex and multi-faceted offense. Edited April 12, 2019 by dave mcbride 2
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Was it his fault that he didn't have a decent QB throwing him the ball? Hogan wasn't a great receiver but a player of his caliber is useful. He certainly wasn't a bad player. Look how bad Zay Jones was with Tyrod throwing him the ball [ducking for cover]
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 57 minutes ago, billieve420 said: JAG never understood the love. beat me to it!
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: beat me to it! See above. NE runs a very complex offense and he does a lot of the other stuff extremely well. He is a JAG as a receiver (admittedly, his primary duty), but the other stuff matters more than most think. 1
Andrew Son Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 Amazing that this JAG keeps collecting checks.... I guess NFL teams aren't as smart as this board. 1
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: See above. NE runs a very complex offense and he does a lot of the other stuff extremely well. He is a JAG as a receiver (admittedly, his primary duty), but the other stuff matters more than most think. even here, I was never really too impressed. good for him, he landed another job.
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: even here, I was never really too impressed. good for him, he landed another job. You should be impressed because he's genuinely good at that other stuff. If you watched that SD playoff game - where he played 92 percent of the snaps - he was always blocking capably downfield on runs that got to the second level (which happened a lot).
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: 1 hour ago, billieve420 said: JAG never understood the love. beat me to it! I love 90% of the Buffalo Bills players its in my blood. I just can't help myself 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: Was it his fault that he didn't have a decent QB throwing him the ball? Hogan wasn't a great receiver but a player of his caliber is useful. He certainly wasn't a bad player. He was very useful. Didn't get a ton of targets, but made the most of them. Beefy YPC past few years. He would have been pretty cheap to keep in the big picture. Solid #3 is what every team should have on the roster. 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: He had 34 receptions for 542 yards and 4 TDs in 9 postseason games, which is very solid. He's also a very good blocker. He played more offensive snaps than any other Patriots player aside from Brady and the o-line in the SB against the Falcons -- a massive 97 snaps, which is like two games for most players -- and his block on the game-tying 2 pt conversion to get Amendola into the end zone was textbook and play-deciding. He's basically a JAG as a receiver, but the reason he played so many snaps is that he does all the other things well in what is a very complex and multi-faceted offense. Exactly. Look at the fawning over the signing of tiny JAG Cole Beasley--one dimensional player who needs nearly 90 targets to get as many yards as Hogan gets in under 60. but he, like Hogan, fills a role---just a more limited one. 1
billieve420 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, SWATeam said: Amazing that this JAG keeps collecting checks.... I guess NFL teams aren't as smart as this board. No he has a role on a team just not what many had made him out to be which was a difference maker who the Bills would miss.
Bill from NYC Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said: his high in buffalo was 450. his high there was 680.... sooooo much better. i'd be ok with a rings argument but a numbers one isn't very accurate. It might really be less relevant as well. Brady had other targets to include Gronk, a good running game and of course, a strong OL. He would be prone to getting less chances under these conditions, no? Don't get me wrong.....I do not make a case that he was great. I do however think that the poster who said that those complaining about Hogan leaving Buffalo were disgusted by the incompetence of Whaley was correct. Put me in that crew. 2
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He was very useful. Didn't get a ton of targets, but made the most of them. Beefy YPC past few years. He would have been pretty cheap to keep in the big picture. Solid #3 is what every team should have on the roster. Exactly. Look at the fawning over the signing of tiny JAG Cole Beasley--one dimensional player who needs nearly 90 targets to get as many yards as Hogan gets in under 60. but he, like Hogan, fills a role---just a more limited one. I do think that Beasley is a little quicker than Hogan and can play a more Edelman-like role. To be fair, that wasn't the position Hogan played for the Pats - he was more of a flanker than a slot receiver. But Beasley's short area quickness is better than Hogan's.
Mr. WEO Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: I do think that Beasley is a little quicker than Hogan and can play a more Edelman-like role. To be fair, that wasn't the position Hogan played for the Pats - he was more of a flanker than a slot receiver. But Beasley's short area quickness is better than Hogan's. Oh i know.. Just saying both have value, but that Beasely is an Edelman knockoff, yet some posters are "hyping " him as "though we just went out and signed a first ballot wr" lol
NewEra Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He was never "hyped" "as though we had let a first ballot wr walk". THAT's simply not how it went. I'll agree with this. ?
RussellDopeland Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, MJS said: That's simply not true. Hogan had a cult of pissed off followers that continually bashed the Bills for letting him go. I think you're confusing Hogan fans with the Brandon Reilly fan cult, which was as incomprehensible as the Mike Jasper and Coy Wire juntas! ? 2
billieve420 Posted April 12, 2019 Posted April 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: See above. NE runs a very complex offense and he does a lot of the other stuff extremely well. He is a JAG as a receiver (admittedly, his primary duty), but the other stuff matters more than most think. If he was that vital why would the Patriots with no WRs outside of Edelman and the unreliable Josh Gordon let him walk? He only signed a 1 yr deal with the Panthers late in FA so he clearly wasn't a priority with any of the teams.
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