Trade market for Rosen "soft"

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Both guys could yet succeed or fail.Yeah, agreed.

 

Actually, all of the 2018 first round QBs could still succeed or fail -- and it's likely that at least 3 or 4 probably will fail by the time they play out their rookie contracts.  In 2011,  four QBs were taken in the first 12 picks but only one who had long term success was Cam Newton.  The other decent QBs in that draft were 2nd rounder Andy Dalton and 6th rounder Tyrod Taylor.  The 2012 draft also featured 4 QBs taken in the first round (3 in the first 8 picks) but only Andrew Luck was a keeper while the most successful QB from that draft is Russell Wilson and 2nd rounder Nick Foles and 4th round Kirk Cousins have done well.   Drafts rarely produce more than 1 true franchise QBs (see 1983 and 2004) while a "good draft" will produce 1 franchise guy and 1 or 2 QBs who are "decent".

 

7 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

The opportunity to kick Rosen's punk ass twice a year for 10 years is music to this Bill's fans ears. I say bring it.Now I know I'm right.

 

What makes you think that Belichick wouldn't mold Rosen into another Brady?   Belichick made Bernie Kosar into a very good QB back in his days in Cleveland.  He made Matt Cassel look like a good NFL QB for one season in 2008.  SF gave up a 2nd rounder for backup QB Jimmy Garoppollo because of how good he looked in his limited stints as a starter under Belichick.

 

Moreover, Belichick and Brady have NOT been the reason that the Bills have stunk it up since 2000.   The Bills organization has been incompetent during most, if not all, of that time, and it's way to early to decide if the current regime is truly any better than all the others.

 

35 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I do not think many people on here like Allen simply because he is a Bill and dislike Rosen simply because he is not a Bill. Rosen is very holier than thou and does not feel as a win at all cost guy. Allen is crazy enough and desperate enough to win that he hurdled a defender to get a first down. Allen might still not make as a real NFL qb but he reminds me of Favre and Rosen seems to be the opposite. 

 

I think you would be wrong.  If the Bills had taken Rosen instead of Allen, you and numerous others on TSW would be finding positives in Rosen and dissing Allen.  Look at all the Bills fans who repeatedly claim that they'd rather have Allen than Mahomes when they could have had a QB with just as much leadership and "it" factor as Allen with better passing  ability as well as all the additional talent they either gave up or passed on in order to get Allen.   Look at all the Bills fans who keep pretending that the Bills didn't screw the pooch by drafting Zay Jones rather than Juju Smith-Schuster.  Oh, yeah, and how about all the Bills fans who insist that Tre White is as good a CB as Stephon Gilmore?

 

Most Bills fans are always "all in" on whatever regime the owners install -- and the players they select -- until that regime gets the axe and/or the players go elsewhere.  Then they're all trash in the eyes of the Bills true believers.

[C.Biscuit97]

11 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I think JR could be good. He's just such a douchebag.

Why is he a douchebag?  Seriously?  Here’s an article with a guy who’s on the Bills and Rosen, who clearly hates Rosen.  Rosen’s thoughts seem much more mature than a bunch of posters on here.

 

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/josh-rosen-conor-mcdermott-ucla

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Actually, all of the 2018 first round QBs could still succeed or fail -- and it's likely that at least 3 or 4 probably will fail by the time they play out their rookie contracts.  In 2011,  four QBs were taken in the first 12 picks but only one who had long term success was Cam Newton.  The other decent QBs in that draft were 2nd rounder Andy Dalton and 6th rounder Tyrod Taylor.  The 2012 draft also featured 4 QBs taken in the first round (3 in the first 8 picks) but only Andrew Luck was a keeper while the most successful QB from that draft is Russell Wilson and 2nd rounder Nick Foles and 4th round Kirk Cousins have done well.   Drafts rarely produce more than 1 true franchise QBs (see 1983 and 2004) while a "good draft" will produce 1 franchise guy and 1 or 2 QBs who are "decent".

 

 

What makes you think that Belichick wouldn't mold Rosen into another Brady?   Belichick made Bernie Kosar into a very good QB back in his days in Cleveland.  He made Matt Cassel look like a good NFL QB for one season in 2008.  SF gave up a 2nd rounder for backup QB Jimmy Garoppollo because of how good he looked in his limited stints as a starter under Belichick.

 

Moreover, Belichick and Brady have NOT been the reason that the Bills have stunk it up since 2000.   The Bills organization has been incompetent during most, if not all, of that time, and it's way to early to decide if the current regime is truly any better than all the others.

 

 

I think you would be wrong.  If the Bills had taken Rosen instead of Allen, you and numerous others on TSW would be finding positives in Rosen and dissing Allen.  Look at all the Bills fans who repeatedly claim that they'd rather have Allen than Mahomes when they could have had a QB with just as much leadership and "it" factor as Allen with better passing  ability as well as all the additional talent they either gave up or passed on in order to get Allen.   Look at all the Bills fans who keep pretending that the Bills didn't screw the pooch by drafting Zay Jones rather than Juju Smith-Schuster.  Oh, yeah, and how about all the Bills fans who insist that Tre White is as good a CB as Stephon Gilmore?

 

Most Bills fans are always "all in" on whatever regime the owners install -- and the players they select -- until that regime gets the axe and/or the players go elsewhere.  Then they're all trash in the eyes of the Bills true believers.

Such a good post and it’s 100% true.  

[stinky finger]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fine, that's what you say. There's a good chance you're very wrong.

 

And the reason Bills fans think Rosen's a punk is very simple. He didn't get drafted by Buffalo. Most Bills fans didn't want anything to do with Josh Allen. Mysteriously, that has turned around now that he's wearing our jersey, as it would have for Rosen if it had been him taking snaps from Morse next year.

 

Boy - wrong on all counts. I thought he was punk prior, during and after the draft.

 

Guess you didn't get your guy, huh?

 

As I said previously, he may turn out to be a fine NFL QB. HE is a punk. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

I understand the bias toward players because they are Bills but even non bills fans love Allen and his attitude- he is fun to watch and clearly cares about winning over all else. I truly believe he won over many people this year with his play. In my small circle of friends they would all rather have Allen than Rosen today.

[stinky finger]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Actually, all of the 2018 first round QBs could still succeed or fail -- and it's likely that at least 3 or 4 probably will fail by the time they play out their rookie contracts.  In 2011,  four QBs were taken in the first 12 picks but only one who had long term success was Cam Newton.  The other decent QBs in that draft were 2nd rounder Andy Dalton and 6th rounder Tyrod Taylor.  The 2012 draft also featured 4 QBs taken in the first round (3 in the first 8 picks) but only Andrew Luck was a keeper while the most successful QB from that draft is Russell Wilson and 2nd rounder Nick Foles and 4th round Kirk Cousins have done well.   Drafts rarely produce more than 1 true franchise QBs (see 1983 and 2004) while a "good draft" will produce 1 franchise guy and 1 or 2 QBs who are "decent".

 

 

What makes you think that Belichick wouldn't mold Rosen into another Brady?   Belichick made Bernie Kosar into a very good QB back in his days in Cleveland.  He made Matt Cassel look like a good NFL QB for one season in 2008.  SF gave up a 2nd rounder for backup QB Jimmy Garoppollo because of how good he looked in his limited stints as a starter under Belichick.

 

Moreover, Belichick and Brady have NOT been the reason that the Bills have stunk it up since 2000.   The Bills organization has been incompetent during most, if not all, of that time, and it's way to early to decide if the current regime is truly any better than all the others.

 

 

I think you would be wrong.  If the Bills had taken Rosen instead of Allen, you and numerous others on TSW would be finding positives in Rosen and dissing Allen.  Look at all the Bills fans who repeatedly claim that they'd rather have Allen than Mahomes when they could have had a QB with just as much leadership and "it" factor as Allen with better passing  ability as well as all the additional talent they either gave up or passed on in order to get Allen.   Look at all the Bills fans who keep pretending that the Bills didn't screw the pooch by drafting Zay Jones rather than Juju Smith-Schuster.  Oh, yeah, and how about all the Bills fans who insist that Tre White is as good a CB as Stephon Gilmore?

 

Most Bills fans are always "all in" on whatever regime the owners install -- and the players they select -- until that regime gets the axe and/or the players go elsewhere.  Then they're all trash in the eyes of the Bills true believers.

 

 

 

Brady/Belichick will not be duplicated. Couple that with the fact that I believe this regime is taking this organization it's never been.

 

Unlike you, I don't subscribe to once miserable always miserable. Open your eyes. This Team is changing before our eyes. Enjoy the ride. 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Why is he a douchebag?  Seriously?  Here’s an article with a guy who’s on the Bills and Rosen, who clearly hates Rosen.  Rosen’s thoughts seem much more mature than a bunch of posters on here.

 

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/josh-rosen-conor-mcdermott-ucla

Such a good post and it’s 100% true.  

 

Sorry C. Biscuit. There's just a presence, a look a feel that just screams utter dislike. 

 

Had we drafted him, I'd have supported him only because of the jersey he wears. I not only want our QB to be good. I'd like him be likable.

 

I firmly believe we got the better Josh on both counts.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Most Bills fans didn't want anything to do with Josh Allen. Mysteriously, that has turned around now that he's wearing our jersey, as it would have for Rosen if it had been him taking snaps from Morse next year.

 

A lot of us still were not sold or all in on Allen until he came back from injury last year and went on that six game run that no other QB other than Mike Vick has ever been on. Flipped around his TD:INT and dramatically decreased his sack %. A Qb does need to show some sort of sign of success and improvement for me to get behind them. 

 

With regards to Rosen, I am not in the fairest position to judge him since I hardly watched him, but I'm not sure what success or improvement he showed last season other than staying on the field. This is just from looking over his stats. The only improvement i can find for Rosen in his final six games was a meaningless 0.9% improvement in completion percentage. YPA decreased a full yard. TD:INT ratio decreased about 25%. Sack % jumped 4 points. And of course he did not put up vintage Mike Vick numbers in the running game. 

 

Basically Rosen gets a pass because his team was dog poop. The offensive cast around Allen is not far off at all. Our number one receiver going into the season was cut for poor performance and currently isn't even on a team despite not even being 30 years old. At no point last year could any of our running backs find space to contribute anything meaningful in the ground game.

 

Can Rosen have a Goff like turn around in Arizona or somewhere else? Perhaps. I doubt it would be overnight like Goffs. I would not hold my breath on it happening at all.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 hours ago, aristocrat said:

You gotta wonder if this turns into Brett favre type situation? What other great ones have gotten traded?

 

Before greatness, Young? 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

What makes you think that Belichick wouldn't mold Rosen into another Brady?   Belichick made Bernie Kosar into a very good QB back in his days in Cleveland.  He made Matt Cassel look like a good NFL QB for one season in 2008.  SF gave up a 2nd rounder for backup QB Jimmy Garoppollo because of how good he looked in his limited stints as a starter under Belichick.

 

Those other guys played in the system well and Bill got the most out of them but Brady they are not. I also wouldn't doubt that Bill could turn Rosen into another Cassel or even Jimmy G. Not guaranteed but it could happen. If it did it would not be the end of the world. Those guys are beatable. Brady's the closets thing to not beatable. Heck, imagine Ryan Fitzpatrick playing QB for the Patriots. I would have to imagine Bill would get a whole lot more out of Fitzpatrick than he did Cassel.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Why is he a douchebag?  Seriously?  Here’s an article with a guy who’s on the Bills and Rosen, who clearly hates Rosen.  Rosen’s thoughts seem much more mature than a bunch of posters on here.

 

I'll take a stab at it. He very well may be very bright and mature for his age. But QBs are supposed to be "boring". Never giving anything with real substance in an interview. Brady is the epitome of this. When does Brees ever give us anything good?  He's seems to have an Aaron Rodgers like attitude with perhaps even more opinions on different things. The sooner Rosen's game can rise to his quotes the better off he will be. Mayfield is sort of a similar example. Mayfield has earned a benefit of the doubt to speak his mind since winning ROY.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I'll take a stab at it. He very well may be very bright and mature for his age. But QBs are supposed to be "boring". Never giving anything with real substance in an interview. Brady is the epitome of this. When does Brees ever give us anything good?  He's seems to have an Aaron Rodgers like attitude with perhaps even more opinions on different things. The sooner Rosen's game can rise to his quotes the better off he will be. Mayfield is sort of a similar example. Mayfield has earned a benefit of the doubt to speak his mind since winning ROY.

 

 

 

Big Ben? Rodgers? These guys have always talked and always spoken their minds and even publically clashed with coaches while playing their way into the HoF. 

 

There is no "model personality" for successful franchise QBs. It takes all types. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....didn't this clown plant the seed with his hissy fit about where he was drafted?....a real "team guy" to lay it on the line for.....sorry but in my "humble opinion", Putz Boy has that "Richie Rich Kid" entitlement stench......welcome to the REAL world.......respect is EARNED and NOT a right.. sure as hell glad we got "one of the mistakes".....

 

A "pissed" Josh Rosen delivered the best quote of the 2018 NFL Draft

By Alex Myers   April 27, 2018

 

One of the most polarizing figures entering the 2018 NFL Draft, the UCLA product probably won as many fans as he lost when he was asked about slipping to the 10th pick and he gave some brutally honest answers. Rosen told reporters he was "pissed" and "really angry" he wasn't chosen in the top 3, and then delivered this gem that we'll have to hear about for the next 15 years if he actually turns into a great player.

 

"There were nine mistakes ahead of me."

Edited April 13, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Big Ben? Rodgers? These guys have always talked and always spoken their minds and even publically clashed with coaches while playing their way into the HoF. 

 

There is no "model personality" for successful franchise QBs. It takes all types. 

 

I don't recall Big Ben opening his mouth much or at all until well after he was a two time super bowl champion. 

 

Rodgers is widely regarded as the best or second best QB playing the game over the last 10 years.  He was successful out of the gate pretty much by winning a super bowl in 2010 shortly after he became the starting Qb for Green Bay. Despite that early success he has not even been back to a Super Bowl. And with the recent article that came out that does not shed good light on his personality he may even start to take more heat going forward despite still having a tremendous skill set. Mayfield has been succesful right out of the gate turning the Browns around quickly and winning ROY.

 

Rosen has done nothing. That's going to be a problem in his future if he continues to have an opinion.

[Albany,n.y.]

25 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....didn't this clown plant the seed with his hissy fit about where he was drafted?....a real "team guy" to lay it on the line for.....sorry but in my "humble opinion", Putz Boy has that "Richie Rich Kid" entitlement stench......welcome to the REAL world.......respect is EARNED and NOT a right.. sure as hell glad we got "one of the mistakes".....

 

A "pissed" Josh Rosen delivered the best quote of the 2018 NFL Draft

By Alex Myers   April 27, 2018

 

One of the most polarizing figures entering the 2018 NFL Draft, the UCLA product probably won as many fans as he lost when he was asked about slipping to the 10th pick and he gave some brutally honest answers. Rosen told reporters he was "pissed" and "really angry" he wasn't chosen in the top 3, and then delivered this gem that we'll have to hear about for the next 15 years if he actually turns into a great player.

 

"There were nine mistakes ahead of me."

His first media event with his new team should be can't miss TV/radio.  He'll be wise not to unload on Arizona's management until he proves it on the field, but I doubt he'll be able to contain himself.  

Edited April 13, 2019 by Albany,n.y.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

His first media event with his new team should be can't miss TV/radio.  He'll be wise not to unload on Arizona's management until he proves it on the field, but I doubt he'll be able to contain himself.  

 

..perfectly suited for the AAF...oh wait.......next up is XFL................

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I don't recall Big Ben opening his mouth much or at all until well after he was a two time super bowl champion. 

 

Rodgers is widely regarded as the best or second best QB playing the game over the last 10 years.  He was successful out of the gate pretty much by winning a super bowl in 2010 shortly after he became the starting Qb for Green Bay. Despite that early success he has not even been back to a Super Bowl. And with the recent article that came out that does not shed good light on his personality he may even start to take more heat going forward despite still having a tremendous skill set. Mayfield has been succesful right out of the gate turning the Browns around quickly and winning ROY.

 

Rosen has done nothing. That's going to be a problem in his future if he continues to have an opinion.

 

Big Ben has always been opinionated. He was successful out of the gate too of course.

 

Having opinionated Quarterbacks is not a bad thing. The only relevant question is can they play. If Rosen can (I still believe he can) then it doesn't matter what opinions he has. There is no perfect personality type for a Quarterback. There is a successful playing type - can you stand in and make the throws from the pocket when needed. That is the only and I mean only differentiator between good and bad. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Big Ben has always been opinionated. He was successful out of the gate too of course.

 

Having opinionated Quarterbacks is not a bad thing. The only relevant question is can they play. If Rosen can (I still believe he can) then it doesn't matter what opinions he has. There is no perfect personality type for a Quarterback. There is a successful playing type - can you stand in and make the throws from the pocket when needed. That is the only and I mean only differentiator between good and bad. 

 

Maybe so. Perhaps it is just coincidence that neither Rodgers or Big Ben have won or even been back to a Super Bowl since really becoming even more opinionated than they were early in their careers.

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....didn't this clown plant the seed with his hissy fit about where he was drafted?....a real "team guy" to lay it on the line for.....sorry but in my "humble opinion", Putz Boy has that "Richie Rich Kid" entitlement stench......welcome to the REAL world.......respect is EARNED and NOT a right.. sure as hell glad we got "one of the mistakes".....

 

A "pissed" Josh Rosen delivered the best quote of the 2018 NFL Draft

By Alex Myers   April 27, 2018

 

One of the most polarizing figures entering the 2018 NFL Draft, the UCLA product probably won as many fans as he lost when he was asked about slipping to the 10th pick and he gave some brutally honest answers. Rosen told reporters he was "pissed" and "really angry" he wasn't chosen in the top 3, and then delivered this gem that we'll have to hear about for the next 15 years if he actually turns into a great player.

 

"There were nine mistakes ahead of me."

 

This^^ 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Maybe so. Perhaps it is just coincidence that neither Rodgers or Big Ben have won or even been back to a Super Bowl since really becoming even more opinionated than they were early in their careers.

 

I don't buy that they have become more opinionated. 

[SoTier]

4 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

 

 

Brady/Belichick will not be duplicated. Couple that with the fact that I believe this regime is taking this organization it's never been.

 

Unlike you, I don't subscribe to once miserable always miserable. Open your eyes. This Team is changing before our eyes. Enjoy the ride. 

 

Sorry C. Biscuit. There's just a presence, a look a feel that just screams utter dislike. 

 

Had we drafted him, I'd have supported him only because of the jersey he wears. I not only want our QB to be good. I'd like him be likable.

 

I firmly believe we got the better Josh on both counts.

 

Where did I say that the Bills are doomed?  I didn't.  I said it's way too soon to figure out if the Beane regime is better, the same or worse than its predecessors.  At this time into most of the previous regimes since 2000 (< 2 years) most fans thought those regimes were better than their predecessors, too.

 

What do you know about Josh Rosen except having watched him a few times play on the train wreck that was the 2018 Cards and read articles/tweets/posts by authors who may very well have their own agendas, including stirring controversy to boost their readership. following or clicks?   Have you met him?  Have you played with him?  Have you coached him?   My guess is your answer to all of these questions would be "no".

 

Furthermore, you can believe whatever you want but that doesn't make it true.  Nobody knows if any of the 2018 QBs will actually become franchise QBs.  Certainly Mayfield's rookie performance makes him the most promising of the lot but it's no guarantee that he doesn't crash and burn this season or next.

 

 

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Those other guys played in the system well and Bill got the most out of them but Brady they are not. I also wouldn't doubt that Bill could turn Rosen into another Cassel or even Jimmy G. Not guaranteed but it could happen. If it did it would not be the end of the world. Those guys are beatable. Brady's the closets thing to not beatable. Heck, imagine Ryan Fitzpatrick playing QB for the Patriots. I would have to imagine Bill would get a whole lot more out of Fitzpatrick than he did Cassel.

 

The poster to whom I responded assumes that when Brady retires, the Patriots are going to instantly and permanently become cellar dwellers and that the Bills will then take their place as the dominant team in the AFCE.  Aside from nobody knowing the future, the Bills being a good or bad team is entirely independent of whether NE is a good or bad team.  For a lot of years in the last 20 years, Pittsburgh and Baltimore have frequently been among the class of the AFC during the same seasons.

 

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Maybe so. Perhaps it is just coincidence that neither Rodgers or Big Ben have won or even been back to a Super Bowl since really becoming even more opinionated than they were early in their careers.

 

No, it's a function of the quality of the teams and coaches their organizations have put around them and any untimely injuries they've suffered.   The same with Peyton Manning and Drew Brees -- and especially Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford, and probably Matt Ryan too.  It has nothing to do with whether or not a QB expresses opinions or not.

Edited April 13, 2019 by SoTier

[ColoradoBills]

1.  IMO there is almost a 0 chance that Kraft OKs bringing Rosen to NE based on his politics alone.

I also think a number of other owners would feel the same.

 

2.  Is anyone advocating Beane bringing Rosen to Buffalo?  If so why?

 

3.  Rosen no doubt will get dealt eventually and when he does we all will see if his play is better than JAs or not.