Chef Jim Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 44 minutes ago, B-Man said: “The Nation” doesn’t pay the baseball players or the teachers, jackass ! Everything that happens in America isn’t done by the “nation.” That’s kinda how freedom works. . Like a barber told me years ago. “Until I can get 10’s of thousands of people live and another million or so on TV watch me cut hair professional athletes will always make a lot more than me!” BTW so what salaries do teachers deserve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: BTW so what salaries do teachers deserve? $15 an hour seems to be the magic number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 On 5/5/2019 at 11:46 AM, Doc Brown said: Making sure the GOP has an actual health care proposal will also be important They won't. Their fundamental (honest) opinion is that the government should play little/no role in healthcare and the ultimate objective is simply to undo the ACA. There was never going to be a "replace." I don't agree with the position, but it's a position. That's not particularly popular, so they'll dance around it. That's my perception, anyways. Ultimately, the economy trumps all other issues. Barring a recession, Trump has a very good chance at re-election. For all the moral outrage, people will almost always vote in their own self interest. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-baby! Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 2 hours ago, /dev/null said: $15 an hour seems to be the magic number Wow. My sister is a teacher in Canada and she makes 100 grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said: They won't. Their fundamental (honest) opinion is that the government should play little/no role in healthcare and the ultimate objective is simply to undo the ACA. There was never going to be a "replace." I don't agree with the position, but it's a position. That's not particularly popular, so they'll dance around it. That's my perception, anyways. Ultimately, the economy trumps all other issues. Barring a recession, Trump has a very good chance at re-election. For all the moral outrage, people will almost always vote in their own self interest. Nothing wrong with that. If the economy trumped all other issues, Gore would've been elected in 2000, Romney in 2012, and Hillary in 2016. Bush, Obama, and Trump ran much better campaign compared to their weaker opponents. Immigration and healthcare will be two major issues going into this election even if the economy is strong. In the end, whoever the Democrats nominate it will be vital they focus on healthcare, protecting medicaid/medicare, point out how the tax cuts not only increased the debt even more but led to even more economic inequality, and raising the minimum wage. If they focus on those issues they can win because of Trump's personal shortcomings as his approval ratings should be in the 60's right now. To think Trump isn't vulnerable would be a mistake on the GOP's part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: If the economy trumped all other issues, Gore would've been elected in 2000, Romney in 2012, and Hillary in 2016. Bush, Obama, and Trump ran much better campaign compared to their weaker opponents. Immigration and healthcare will be two major issues going into this election even if the economy is strong. In the end, whoever the Democrats nominate it will be vital they focus on healthcare, protecting medicaid/medicare, point out how the tax cuts not only increased the debt even more but led to even more economic inequality, and raising the minimum wage. If they focus on those issues they can win because of Trump's personal shortcomings as his approval ratings should be in the 60's right now. To think Trump isn't vulnerable would be a mistake on the GOP's part. When I say it trumps all other issues, I'm saying it's the most important issue. I don't disagree with any of your talking points and that's exactly the way any potential Dem needs to approach the campaign. My only counter on the approval ratings would be the Bradley effect(sort of). There's a lot of people who don't want to admit they support Trump, which is kind of odd, but is a thing. I would say re-election is a 50/50 prop right now; much higher than some Dems want to accept. Edited May 19, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said: When I say it trumps all other issues, I'm saying it's the most important issue. I don't disagree with any of your talking points and that's exactly the way any potential Dem needs to approach the campaign. My only counter on the approval ratings would be the Bradley effect(sort of). There's a lot of people who don't want to admit they support Trump, which is kind of odd, but is a thing. I would say re-election is a 50/50 prop right now; much higher than some Dems want to accept. I agree and I actually think he's the favorite at this point. He has the incumbency advantage and a strong economy. He's also not afraid to engage in the culture wars like McCain and Romney were. The bounce Palin gave McCain in the polls was no coincidence. I'd give Trump about a 65% reelection chance even if he does shoot somebody on 5th avenue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 nobody said the economy was 100% ice cold that's it, don't call us child we'll call you will people stop taking gross extremes like Doc Brown usually does? the economy is vital, may be the most important issue in an election, but nobody said it was 100% of everything amen and amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 No one who claims he is a socialist will ever win a presidential election. The Democrats will nominate someone like Biden or Klobuchar because they know they have to win back some mid western states to win the election and moderates give them that chance. Regarding the economy, various indicators look good. The tax cut didn't really help me at all and I'm at a upper middle class income level. And while I agree we need to get trade issues resolved with China, Trump may just be foolish enough to continue this tariff and trade war and hand away votes from folks like farmers who are getting hurt and will continue to get hurt. What I find depressing is that neither side seems to care about the most critical part of our economic situation: the 20 trillion and rising debt load for our country. This is intolerable, unsustainable. Someone needs to have the guts to stand up and say either we decide as a country we want all these government services and thus increase the tax rates to a level needed to not only pay for the services and pay the debt, or we decide that the government has very limited duties, keep the rates where they are, drastically cut services to only essential ones, and use the remaining revenue to pay down the debt. We are on a path to ultimate destruction and neither political party gives a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 53 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: No one who claims he is a socialist will ever win a presidential election. The Democrats will nominate someone like Biden or Klobuchar because they know they have to win back some mid western states to win the election and moderates give them that chance. Regarding the economy, various indicators look good. The tax cut didn't really help me at all and I'm at a upper middle class income level. And while I agree we need to get trade issues resolved with China, Trump may just be foolish enough to continue this tariff and trade war and hand away votes from folks like farmers who are getting hurt and will continue to get hurt. What I find depressing is that neither side seems to care about the most critical part of our economic situation: the 20 trillion and rising debt load for our country. This is intolerable, unsustainable. Someone needs to have the guts to stand up and say either we decide as a country we want all these government services and thus increase the tax rates to a level needed to not only pay for the services and pay the debt, or we decide that the government has very limited duties, keep the rates where they are, drastically cut services to only essential ones, and use the remaining revenue to pay down the debt. We are on a path to ultimate destruction and neither political party gives a damn. 2020 may be a complete waste of time, none of these candidates outside Biden has even 1% credibility and it won't help any of them for 2024 need someone to suddenly arise like JFK or Clinton or Obama from the first time you see him..... that's all the party has offered since 1959... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/446747-socialism-debate-roils-democratic-primary?amp&__twitter_impression=true A fierce debate over socialism has erupted among Democrats, with several centrist presidential candidates warning that progressive proposals on health care and the environment that have dominated the primary are a surefire way to get President Trump reelected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/446747-socialism-debate-roils-democratic-primary?amp&__twitter_impression=true (Because "real" socialism is unfinished. "Socialism's goal is communism." Lenin.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) On 5/19/2019 at 6:36 PM, Doc Brown said: If the economy trumped all other issues, Gore would've been elected in 2000, Romney in 2012, and Hillary in 2016. Bush, Obama, and Trump ran much better campaign compared to their weaker opponents. Immigration and healthcare will be two major issues going into this election even if the economy is strong. In the end, whoever the Democrats nominate it will be vital they focus on healthcare, protecting medicaid/medicare, point out how the tax cuts not only increased the debt even more but led to even more economic inequality, and raising the minimum wage. If they focus on those issues they can win because of Trump's personal shortcomings as his approval ratings should be in the 60's right now. To think Trump isn't vulnerable would be a mistake on the GOP's part. Immigration and healthcare will be big issues, I agree. I think college debt is going to wiggle it's way in there because that affects students, families and a lot of downstream sales and revenue the corporations care about. That being said, the Democrats have no great, new ideas on either topic besides their "well, we hate his idea" idea. They will spend every day up until election night 2020 fighting themselves over impeachment, giving their candidates absolutely nothing in the way of a competitive platform. IMO, the DNC isn't serious about 2020. If they were, they would have put a heavyweight in as DNC Chair, not an Obama era middle manager. Edited June 4, 2019 by dpberr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 From the link posted above by LBSeeBallLBGetBall A fierce debate over socialism has erupted among Democrats, with several centrist presidential candidates warning that progressive proposals on health care and the environment that have dominated the primary are a surefire way to get President Trump reelected. Three low-polling contenders — former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, Sen. Michael Bennet (Colo.) and former Rep. John Delaney (Md.) — are unloading on socialism or taking shots at “Medicare for All” and the Green New Deal, which have gone mainstream in the Democratic Party since being embraced by Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Elizabeth Warren (Mass.), as well as Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.). Hickenlooper and Delaney made waves with their warnings about socialism and Medicare for All at the California Democratic Party convention over the weekend in San Francisco, where they were booed mercilessly by the liberal crowd. I wonder how much of the response is due to True Believers in socialism, and how much is because it’s Old White Guys warning against it. CORN, POPPED........ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, B-Man said: I wonder how much of the response is due to True Believers in socialism, and how much is because it’s Old White Guys warning against it. CORN, POPPED........ This is a good question -- and based on a conversation I had over the weekend with my ladyfriend, it sure does seem to be the latter. We were having a (rare) political conversation about the merits of identity politics and she kept referencing two academics who are openly Marxist. When I pointed out that they're Marxists, she kept saying "what does that matter? Marxism is irrelevant" while parroting Marxist academic talking points. At one point she told me caring about the ideological backgrounds of academics is something only privileged people can do and thus makes it irrelevant to the larger debate. We quickly moved the conversation back to non political topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: At one point she told me caring about the ideological backgrounds of academics is something only privileged people can do and thus makes it irrelevant to the larger debate. That is so nonsensical that all attempts to explain how its nonsensical are themselves nonsensical. It's meta-nonsense. Tell her I said she's an idiot. And not in the kind, gentle, how-ya-doin' "You're an idiot" sense, but in more in the "How do you not strangle yourself tying your shoelaces?" sense. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: This is a good question -- and based on a conversation I had over the weekend with my ladyfriend, it sure does seem to be the latter. We were having a (rare) political conversation about the merits of identity politics and she kept referencing two academics who are openly Marxist. When I pointed out that they're Marxists, she kept saying "what does that matter? Marxism is irrelevant" while parroting Marxist academic talking points. At one point she told me caring about the ideological backgrounds of academics is something only privileged people can do and thus makes it irrelevant to the larger debate. We quickly moved the conversation back to non political topics. She must be great in bed or a fantastic cook or likes to clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said: She must be great in bed or a fantastic cook or likes to clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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