Rochesterfan Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 5 hours ago, MTLBills said: The strategy is to get it right at QB, no matter the cost. If they think its Murray, then losing Rosen for pennies on the dollar is the least of their concerns. Decide who your guy is, then optimize the situation thereafter. This is especially true as you are sitting with the number 1 pick. You may get a bunch of stuff for the pick, but if you feel Rosen is only going to get you to 6-8 wins regularly then it will cost you more in future drafts to move up than take the guy right now.
ricko1112 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: What if nobody wants to trade up to #1 who has the draft capital to do so? The top of the draft is loaded with top D players who are all rated pretty equally. Why would a team anywhere near the top want to make a trade up when they can get a player just as good as the one they can get at their spot? If a team further down wants to get to the top, it would be too cost prohibitive to do so. So this just isn't a reply to you, it's a reply to everyone who thinks Arizona can just snap their fingers & find a trade partner who will give them a haul for the top pick-easier said than done. Sure, there needs to be a trading partner. Still there's usually a team like the Jets, Skins, Cards (yeah, I know), or some other poorly run franchises that are willing to be taken advantage of... There could be an Eli/Rivers type deal. If no trade is available, the Cards should grab Bosa or Allen. 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: I can't believe I agree with a Patriots fan. I feel filthy. If you keep agreeing with me you'll be much happier (and usually right!).
Albany,n.y. Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: That's not true. Why overpay, when the Cardinals have no leverage? There would be a bidding war which would drive up the price, or one team would make sure to make Arizona an offer they couldn't refuse. If a team totally disagreed with Arizona's thoughts on Rosen, they would make sure they would assure they got him. The only reason Arizona has no leverage is because there is no demand for Rosen as there would be if other teams viewed him as a franchise QB. For proof, I'll use the case of Brett Favre. Favre was a 2nd round pick who barely played his rookie year. Atlanta's coach, Jerry Glanville publicly stated he was not going to play Favre. You would think based on these statements, Favre, a 2nd rounder could not even fetch a 2nd in any trade. GB traded a #1 after Favre's rookie year to Atlanta because their GM viewed Favre as a potential franchise QB. If there was just 1 QB needy GM who views Rosen as a potential franchise QB, they'd be throwing their #1 pick at Arizona just to make sure they locked up a deal. Nobody has done that.
SoTier Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 6 hours ago, corta765 said: Exactly. Maybe with Rosen you get to 6-10/7-9 this year and then a 10-6 season with more help for him but that is his limit. Whereas with Murray even if you suffer one growing year if his potential is far greater after for many consistent 10-12 win seasons you go that route everytime. As I've said before: Phillip Rivers and Matthew Stafford prove that a team needs more than a franchise QB to win 10-12 games a season. 1
Albany,n.y. Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, ricko1112 said: Sure, there needs to be a trading partner. Still there's usually a team like the Jets, Skins, Cards (yeah, I know), or some other poorly run franchises that are willing to be taken advantage of... There could be an Eli/Rivers type deal. If no trade is available, the Cards should grab Bosa or Allen. The reason for the Eli/Rivers deal was because both teams wanted QBs and Eli was refusing to play for SD. If they want Murray, they're not drafting someone else, the Rivers/Eli situation was unique. 1
Big Turk Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 6 hours ago, D521646 said: I was thinking about this today, and was wondering why I haven't heard any buzz about the Cardinals possibly trading the No 1 overall, and running with Rosen, and taking a QB later in the first or maybe even next year. So I ask, if your the GM of Arizona, would you trade out of the number one overall, stick with Rosen for at least another year, and scoop up all these draft picks to put weapons around Josh? Is one season enough to judge Rosen? Granted he was garbage last year, but how much of that was his OL, offensive weapons, and defense? I though TSW was pretty consensus on the idea that you can't judge accurately how a QB will be with just one year to his resume? Look at Goff, as an example. I personally think the Cards are making a potentially huge mistake in letting Rosen walk after just one year. Oh, and before anyone says anything. No, I was a Josh Allen guy all the way, never waivered, except that one time in band camp, when I fell in love with Mayfield for a brief, but in a weakened state of mind. Thoughts? Tim- Not if you have a chance to get what you feel will be an elite QB when what you think you have is an average QB.
gjv001 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 2 hours ago, OCinBuffalo said: But what if no deal comes? This whole assumption that somebody has the large amount of assets, and are willing to trade them, for Rosen is based on what, exactly? These arguments always come down to some hypothetical "team X", and never specify what team will offer what specific assets to get Rosen. Rather it's just "some offer" from "some team". If Rosen was in this years draft I would not be surprised that the majority of teams would have him the highest rated QB in the draft. That being said, I believe one of them would make a very good trade offer for him.
Doc Brown Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) Tell Gruden that you really like Murray and the only reason you'd pass on him is if the Raiders make you an offer you can't refuse. Trade back and build around Rosen. Edited April 9, 2019 by Doc Brown
Sherlock Holmes Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Make there be a run on QBs and people not named Bosa then trade up a few spots for him and trade back up for Hockenson.
ricko1112 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said: The reason for the Eli/Rivers deal was because both teams wanted QBs and Eli was refusing to play for SD. If they want Murray, they're not drafting someone else, the Rivers/Eli situation was unique. Yes, I know that situation was unique. What I meant by that example was that something weird that we couldn't predict might happen...
klos63 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 4 hours ago, chris heff said: See Troy Aikman and Steve Walsh. A few differences , both drafted in the same year, Walsh was in the supplemental draft. Walsh started the season because Aikman had a broken finger, as soon as he was healthy, he started. 3 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said: Only if you didn't draft one high the previous year. Or if said pick bombed like a Ryan Leaf or J Russell. I think this situation is unique, because of a new head coach and a GM on the hot seat. If you draft Murray and he's not good enough to start, especially after Rosen's difficulties last season, Keim is gone.
LSHMEAB Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 The CARDINALS are drafting Murray and taking Rosen. I'd do the same. Really though, I don't care.
OCinBuffalo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, gjv001 said: If Rosen was in this years draft I would not be surprised that the majority of teams would have him the highest rated QB in the draft. That being said, I believe one of them would make a very good trade offer for him. And what is your belief based on? I swear to God...this always ends up being "let's just divide by 0, then say it's no big deal". Edited April 9, 2019 by OCinBuffalo
The Jokeman Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 I don't trust Kyler Murray to be the next great one so if I'm Arizona, I take Bosa or Williams.
TigerJ Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 You're the GM. You picked Kliff Kingsbury to be your head coach. You have inherited a QB that everybody thinks is the quintessential QB for a West Coast offense. Kliff Kingsbury probably can't tell the difference between the West Coast offense and the Wing T. (Just kidding there folks) All things being equal, you stick with Rosen who has some obvious ability and a year of experience. Unfortunately, things are not equal in Arizona. Unless everybody in the organization is somehow convinced that Rosen can be effective running a read option spread, or whatever you want to call Kingsbury's offense of choice, you pretty much have to plan on changing out your QB for one who fits your offense (Kyler Murray).
Fan in Chicago Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 2 hours ago, klos63 said: If you draft Murray and he's not good enough to start, especially after Rosen's difficulties last season, Keim is gone. But if they hold on to Rosen, they will hedge their bets (cos despite the best evaluations, QBs are still a risky proposition). As of now, they cannot have made a definitive judgment on Rosen. Bombing on two top-10 QBs in consecutive years will require a special level of incompetence. And putting all their eggs in one basket is just asking for trouble. Didnt many in TBD advocate drafting QBs every year till you get it right ? I am advocating the same for the Cards esp now that they can pick whoever they want. 1
SoTier Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said: But if they hold on to Rosen, they will hedge their bets (cos despite the best evaluations, QBs are still a risky proposition). As of now, they cannot have made a definitive judgment on Rosen. Bombing on two top-10 QBs in consecutive years will require a special level of incompetence. And putting all their eggs in one basket is just asking for trouble. Didnt many in TBD advocate drafting QBs every year till you get it right ? I am advocating the same for the Cards esp now that they can pick whoever they want. If they missed on Rosen, what makes you think that they're likely to hit on Murray? Murray doesn't seem to be nearly as a good a prospect as Mayfield or Goff or Winston, the last three QBs to go #1 overall. Moreover, lots of recent drafts have produced less than outstanding QBs from the top ten ... including several back to back drafts. 2015 ... #1 Jameis Winston 2015 ... #2 Marcus Mariota 2014 ... #3 Blake Bortles 2012 ... #2 Robert Griffin III 2012 ... #8 Ryan Tannehill 2011 ... #8 Jake Locker 2011 ...#10 Blaine Gabbert 2010 ... #1 Sam Bradford 2009 ... #5 Mark Sanchez 2007 ... #1 Ja'Marcus Russell 2006 ... #3 Vince Young 2006 ... #10 Matt Leinert 2003 ... #7 Byron Leftwich 2002 ... #1 David Carr 2002 ... #3 Joey Harrington They don't know if Rosen will be good, mediocre or awful, and that's partly because he was a rookie, partly because the rest of the Cards team is so poor, and partly because of ineffective coaching. If they draft Murray, he will suffer the same lack of talent around him as Rosen. The Cards new HC may not be any better than their last HC as both were rookie coaches IIRC. The sensible thing to do is to stick with Rosen, use the #1 pick on a stud player or, the best option if they can get a good deal, trade back a bit to get more picks. If the Cards don't significantly improve the team around their QB that QB, whoever it is, isn't going to find much success. Furthermore, trading Rosen before the draft isn't really a feasible option because by wanting to get rid of him so soon essentially declares him a bust. Teams aren't going to spend a 2nd or 3rd draft pick on an expensive but inexperienced backup QB. Edited April 10, 2019 by SoTier
BigBuff423 Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 Last year I was not overhyped on Rosen. I trusted the process and so far, I'm encouraged by what has transpired since the Draft last year. That said, if I'm the Cards and I truly believe Murray can lead you to a championship, then trading Rosen for something of value makes the most sense. However, given the significant position issue of QB, I could also be talked into letting those two show in Camp and Pre-Season who deserves the tab to be the starting QB. If I was looking for a destination, all the usual teams would jump out: Jags, Giants, Pats. However a couple sneaky teams I could see? Saints, Seahawks and Denver Saints: let Teddy and Rosen show whom is the best QB Seahawks: with all the Russell Wilson chatter, let's see who's left standing Denver: Well, you know....Elway and QBs.
papazoid Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 DRAFT murray KEEP rosen backup QB is one of the top 10 most important positions on your team.....starting qb's are 50% likely to get injured. 1
row_33 Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, papazoid said: DRAFT murray KEEP rosen backup QB is one of the top 10 most important positions on your team.....starting qb's are 50% likely to get injured. the common sense answer of course this will be seen as not "genius enough" by almost everyone concerned
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