Buffalo716 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Absolutely loved him with the Jets. Thats what I see when I watch Williams. I don't think he gives you as much flexibility as Oliver, but I also don't think he is Dareus. Williams can line up everywhere. I think his best position is the 3 tech but he will be a able to line up at the 1 or even 5 his hand technique is outstanding and he has a perfect combination of speed, Quickness and power
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, blacklabel said: Welp, a lot of the prospect rankings and hype we see ends up being media driven. For instance, we've been hearing for months how good Dwayne Haskins might be, before Murray declared, he was viewed as the first QB off the board. Recently, it's been said that the hype on Haskins was a result of the media and he may not be the second or even third QB taken. The same thing happens with other prospects and maybe that happened with Oliver. He was seen as a top 3-5 pick based on his sophomore season, during his junior year, guys like Quinnen Williams, Josh Allen, etc. began to emerge. I mean, really all it takes is one big-time season in college to end up on the NFL's radar. So, I don't really see Oliver's slight decline on the board as a result of a spat with a coach or him missing a bowl game, more just some other players had better seasons and are ranked a bit higher. As for what types of players we want on a team, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. Teams are gonna do what they're gonna do. I think McBeane have done a great job at creating culture and identifying the types of traits they want in their players. But, again, talent wins out over all, hence their interest in Antonio Brown. Dude is a major pain in the rump but teams will deal with his BS because he produces on the field. And I think college teammates understand why players essentially leave the team in preparation for the draft. Like I said, these dudes only get one shot at being drafted and for most of them it's a lifelong goal to play in the NFL so they're going to do whatever it takes to get drafted as highly as possible, even if that means departing from their teammates. If I'm on a team with a player who could be a first round pick, I'm rooting for that guy to achieve his dreams at the highest possible level. Yeah, I also would like to have him help the team win but again, business is business and I'd simply see that type of thing as a business decision. No big deal to me. I understand it seems to be a bigger deal to you and that's fine, it can certainly be a gamble to bring in a guy with some attitude or character concerns, but they're all a gamble. Even "surefire day one starters/probably career All-Pros" are a gamble (who remembers Aaron Curry??). You just never know. Yeah- thats totally fair. And you know what, Oliver is exciting. I'd be excited if we drafted him. Its just this whole sitting out bowl games thing strikes me as a troubling trend. Edited April 9, 2019 by JoshAllenHasBigHands 1
TigerJ Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 They both attended Alabama. Both had/have elite athleticism. Similarities end there. Quinnen may have the strength to play nose, but he's generally seen, I think, as a pretty much a pure 3 tech. Dareus was seen as equally adapted to one or zero tech and three tech. As a 3 tech he was much bigger than Williams, but not nearly as quick. The biggest difference is their intensity. Quinnen has it. Dareus, not so much.
Mr. WEO Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 How fast does he drive to the Mongolian Buffet...? How small is his captain's hat? Has he ever "entered rehab" (AKA, Bruce's "lakefront villa")?
Sherlock Holmes Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 On 4/8/2019 at 12:02 PM, TC in St. Louis said: I'm terrified that this has already been discussed. A few years ago, we had the third pick in the draft, and selected Marcel Dareus. Here are the other players chosen at the top of that round: Cam Newton, Von Miller, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones. JJ Watt was drafted #11. Dareus was a monster talent with an inconsistent effort. Dareus was handed a 100 million dollar contract, and a couple years later was traded. Never lived up to his draft position or his contract. He went to Alabama, surrounded by 5 star talent. Same as Q. Williams. Sometimes I think the backups at Alabama turn out better than the starters. We have 2 of them. Levi Wallace and Robert Foster. Alabama is the Duke/Kentucky of football. The bench players would become stars at Missouri or Arkansas or Boston College. I guess this is two threads. Although Q. Williams may seem to be the most dominant DL in the draft, because he is from Alabama he might not be all that. Reminds me of Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson.....stars at top programs and not stars in pro football. Give me Ed Oliver, Josh Allen, or Montez Sweat. Should've went Watt that year... I was adamant about it too which is why people should listen to me and find a way to make a deal for Bosa and trade back up for Hockenson
Augie Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 38 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: No he isn't. Almost everyone wanted Whaley to sign Dareus to an extension. You can't have a revisionist history. You can blame Dareus for not living up to the contract or the coaches for not motivating/utilizing him. You can blame Whaley for not having the foresight for assessing Dareus' response to getting the big contract. But you can't go back and say he didn't earn the new contract. He was a dominant run stuffing DT with a little bit of a pass rush. Almost everyone wanted to keep him and there is little doubt he would have gotten the same money from a different team. You failed to account for the tense. At the time he got the deal, he had shown flashes of greatness. He didn’t say he earned the contract, he said he earned the money he got paid AFTER he got the contract. Many thought he earned a new deal. Few thought he earned the money he got paid as a result of the deal. We are not talking about what folks thought then, we are talking about what people think NOW. He got the money and then went through the paces.
thenorthremembers Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Williams can line up everywhere. I think his best position is the 3 tech but he will be a able to line up at the 1 or even 5 his hand technique is outstanding and he has a perfect combination of speed, Quickness and power Agree. His hands are insane. I just don't like how it ends up for him when lineman get their hands on him. Everyone has bad games but Georgia got after him pretty good.
Buffalo716 Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Agree. His hands are insane. I just don't like how it ends up for him when lineman get their hands on him. Everyone has bad games but Georgia got after him pretty good. He definitely can improve his core strength... Some guards can outmuscle him when they get hands on him
formerlyofCtown Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) On 4/8/2019 at 12:02 PM, TC in St. Louis said: I'm terrified that this has already been discussed. A few years ago, we had the third pick in the draft, and selected Marcel Dareus. Here are the other players chosen at the top of that round: Cam Newton, Von Miller, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones. JJ Watt was drafted #11. Dareus was a monster talent with an inconsistent effort. Dareus was handed a 100 million dollar contract, and a couple years later was traded. Never lived up to his draft position or his contract. He went to Alabama, surrounded by 5 star talent. Same as Q. Williams. Sometimes I think the backups at Alabama turn out better than the starters. We have 2 of them. Levi Wallace and Robert Foster. Alabama is the Duke/Kentucky of football. The bench players would become stars at Missouri or Arkansas or Boston College. I guess this is two threads. Although Q. Williams may seem to be the most dominant DL in the draft, because he is from Alabama he might not be all that. Reminds me of Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson.....stars at top programs and not stars in pro football. Give me Ed Oliver, Josh Allen, or Montez Sweat. As long as Rex Ryan doesnt become his coach he will be fine. But still a professional cant afford to get disenfranchised. Edited April 10, 2019 by formerlyofCtown
mrags Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 On 4/8/2019 at 12:11 PM, Gugny said: I know I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I think Dareus earned his money whilst in Buffalo. He did. Even at the end. Played well considering McD had him in less than 50% of the time. Imo, it’s my biggest take away from this coaching staff and GM. When you have a superstar, you need to find a way to make it work. He was one of the best DTs in football. You’ve got to find a way to get him on the field. If he’s not motivated, as a coach you need to find a way to motivate him.
Gugny Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, mrags said: He did. Even at the end. Played well considering McD had him in less than 50% of the time. Imo, it’s my biggest take away from this coaching staff and GM. When you have a superstar, you need to find a way to make it work. He was one of the best DTs in football. You’ve got to find a way to get him on the field. If he’s not motivated, as a coach you need to find a way to motivate him. Amen, brother.
mrags Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Gugny said: Amen, brother. Normally I’d be ok with trading a malcontent. But this kid was a stud. And we gave him away for nothing.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 22 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: No he isn't. Almost everyone wanted Whaley to sign Dareus to an extension. You can't have a revisionist history. You can blame Dareus for not living up to the contract or the coaches for not motivating/utilizing him. You can blame Whaley for not having the foresight for assessing Dareus' response to getting the big contract. But you can't go back and say he didn't earn the new contract. He was a dominant run stuffing DT with a little bit of a pass rush. Almost everyone wanted to keep him and there is little doubt he would have gotten the same money from a different team. Yup. He was an all pro and part of the best d line in the nfl. Any Bills fans who say they didn’t want them to re-sign Dareus is a liar. And i I struggle to evaluate Bama and Clemson d line because they are so loaded. I do Oliver would have been a monster if he got to play on those units instead of being the main guy in Houston.
Toesy Posted April 10, 2019 Posted April 10, 2019 I would disagree-you don't win anything in the NFL with talented, unmotivated players-this isn't basketball. You keep a star like that around and soon other players, especially young players are just as lazy and causing trouble. NE wouldn't put up with it so why should the Bills-the goal is to win not just have a talented roster on paper.
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