Kirby Jackson Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 Why is anyone arguing that teams don’t go BPA? Teams absolutely do that. They build their boards accordingly and then stick to it.
SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: We aren't. I think Payne's tape was as good as almost any player in the draft last year. It was very good. But you consider positional value when grading and that did drop him into the second tier of grades for me. I had a definitive top 8 and a cluster of guys after that which both Payne and James were in. I think last year had some serious studs on both sides of the ball That's why I'm glad we had two firsts!
mannc Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Augie said: I think that there’s a narrow range of players with similar grades, and it shouldn’t be taken TOO literally. That’s how I see it, anyway. If two kids in HS graduate with a 93 average, they look the same to you and me, but one will be ranked higher in class rankings when you get down to the nitty gritty. A college will choose based upon what “bucket” they are trying to fill, and which one is crowded. Exactly. It’s all based on highly subjective grades. It’s particularly meaningless when you are comparing, say, a running back and a defensive end.
GoBills808 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: We aren't. I think Payne's tape was as good as almost any player in the draft last year. It was very good. But you consider positional value when grading and that did drop him into the second tier of grades for me. I had a definitive top 8 and a cluster of guys after that which both Payne and James were in. 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Why is anyone arguing that teams don’t go BPA? Teams absolutely do that. They build their boards accordingly and then stick to it. So you guys are seriously arguing an NFL team had Payne ranked above Tremaine Edmunds?
SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: So you guys are seriously arguing an NFL team had Payne ranked above Tremaine Edmunds? Well. The Redskins must have.
GoBills808 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 Just now, SouthNYfan said: Well. The Redskins must have. Right. Because there's simply no other explanation than BPA.
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: So you guys are seriously arguing an NFL team had Payne ranked above Tremaine Edmunds? Personally, Edmunds was in my top 8. But a lot of NFL teams were worried about Edmunds' fundamentals. That is why he slipped. 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Right. Because there's simply no other explanation than BPA. So if you want teams I think reached for need in last year's first I think the 49ers did, the Buccaneers did and the Raiders definitely did.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: So you guys are seriously arguing an NFL team had Payne ranked above Tremaine Edmunds? I wasn’t arguing that but ABSOLUTELY that’s plausible.
GoBills808 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Personally, Edmunds was in my top 8. But a lot of NFL teams were worried about Edmunds' fundamentals. That is why he slipped. Or did he slip because the Niners knew they were getting rid of Trent Brown, and the Skins needed a DT, and the Raiders were awful along the o line and went with Kolton Miller @16? Are you saying you also believe the Raiders had Kolton Miller ranked above Tremaine Edmunds?
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Or did he slip because the Niners knew they were getting rid of Trent Brown, and the Skins needed a DT, and the Raiders were awful along the o line and went with Kolton Miller @16? Are you saying you also believe the Raiders had Kolton Miller ranked above Tremaine Edmunds? No I have just said the 49ers and the Raiders in my mind reached for needs. I have never argued it doesn't happen. Just that it isn't what every team does which was what you found hilarious. But if you think the questions about Edmunds' fundamentals were not live and present out there among teams and film guys before the 2018 draft then you are wrong. I personally got challenged on having him in my top 8 both by numerous people I speak to who are either themselves, or well connected with, well respected scouts and analysts. EDIT: Kolton Miller should never in a million years have been a first round pick. But he wouldn't be the first combine warrior to suddenly be way overvalued on a team's board. I think they reached for need but I don't totally rule out that Gruden fell for him based on the Combine. Edited April 7, 2019 by GunnerBill 1
SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Right. Because there's simply no other explanation than BPA. Well they took him over Edmunds, and it's not like they were stacked at LB. I think they were probably closely graded by the Redskins and they chose the position of greater need for two closely ranked players on their board
GoBills808 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: Well they took him over Edmunds, and it's not like they were stacked at LB. I think they were probably closely graded by the Redskins and they chose the position of greater need for two closely ranked players on their board Right...so why can't we just use Best Value Available, value being your own interpretation whatever combination of player rank, draft position, and team needs/priorities you prefer. Because BPA is clearly just bs coach/gmspeak.
akcash Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Devin White is a possibility imo. The Bills would be so athletic at LB that they can stay in their base more than other teams. They’d kick Edmunds to SLB. White is one of the best few players in this draft. Yep and like you say I actually have always thought SLB is his natural position... our lb core would be ultra elite like you say and if Milano could hang with slot receivers yeah we could stay in that most of the time... I just don't think he's in play for us bc I think they have too much invested on Edmunds being our MLB and you can't take him off the field on third down... and also you can't afford to take Milano off the field basically ever... if like you say they thought that could be our Nickel package on steroids that would be awesome... I don't think Milano could hang with a lot of slot receivers tho and Taron Johnson is too good of a nickel... I wish we could take White tho be he is super elite at MLB. 1
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Because BPA is clearly just bs coach/gmspeak. Except it is not.
White Linen Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 Grading players is something no more perfected than when the draft first began. Who really cares if a fan or FO says we draft BPA vs need? BPA is an illusion and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone.
SouthNYfan Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Right...so why can't we just use Best Value Available, value being your own interpretation whatever combination of player rank, draft position, and team needs/priorities you prefer. Because BPA is clearly just bs coach/gmspeak. 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Except it is not. ?
dayman Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) Pure BPA is an insane way to think about things and of course we would run ourselves into the ground with that strategy. In later rounds is becomes more of thing ... in early rounds you need to value based on your needs/roster. If BPA were something people thought was real there would be no trades ever. Edited April 7, 2019 by dayman
GoBills808 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 If you guys want to keep using BPA*except in cases of the quarterback position, or when similarly ranked players of near equal value happen to fall in draft position wherein the argument for team needs can be used to select a lower ranked player, or in instances of outstanding NFL combine performances then have at it ??
Big C Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 Teams do build their board according to needs. You take the BPA according to your board, which can differ from other teams' boards due to a lot reasons and surely need is one of them. The thing is players like Payne and Edmunds both fell into a similar tier - and I think most teams had them somewhere in the 8-24 range - but the way different scout teams and so on view these guys is highly subjective beyond that.
GunnerBill Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: If you guys want to keep using BPA*except in cases of the quarterback position, or when similarly ranked players of near equal value happen to fall in draft position wherein the argument for team needs can be used to select a lower ranked player, or in instances of outstanding NFL combine performances then have at it ?? No what you are doing here is suggesting that I have said all teams always adhere to BPA. I have never said that. I said your argument that none do was incorrect. Some teams reach for need in the draft. Hell the Bills have done it for most of the past 15 years. Others do not. They take the best player available on their board. There are plenty of examples of both (some teams reaching and some teams going BPA in last year's first round). The one position that is always exempt from BPA is Quarterback. Almost every team reaches for Quarterbacks because when you don't have one everything else is basically irrelevant. 2
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