Art in PNS Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 11 hours ago, twist_to_open said: I've been lamenting this for a while, we brought a bunch of fresh blood in for our O line and I applaud Beane & co for that, but from what I see is alot of "flex" players and the possibility of another round of mix and match going on during OTAs and camp like last year. Could this be a systemic problem? Or does our new O line coach and O coordinator have a plan of who will be their starters and whose depth? Or will we be fiddling with the line through week 3 or so? Help me out because I haven't slept well for weeks because of this. As long as they don't have an OPEN Competition all the way through training camp I think they will be OK. They need to get a line in place as soon as possible and then just figure out the second guys and how to rotate them in.
Chandler#81 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said: This is why we need to draft good blockers. Over the years I have not seen a huge amount of great blockers acquired by trade (unless you want to count the Bills trading HOF Jason Taylor) or free agency. I am pretty sure our OL will be better this year, but they still need to dedicate early resources in he draft to give Josh Allen the protection he requires and deserves. What I don't want to see is Josh having to run for huge yardage. RBs don't last so I can't expect Josh to last if he is our leading rusher. I’m sure you mean Jason Peters. To your concern for Allen running for huge yardage, I’m not. The huge yardage comes from a talented and uniquely skilled, fast running QB. I’m sure he didn’t intend to break 30+ yarders every time he broke contain, he just DID. That’s more Freak than recklessness. I get it. It scares the hell outta me too! But we’re witnessing a phenomena. He’s pretty adept at avoiding a big hit. Nobody can defend against cheap shots, ala Kiko. That’s why they’re penalties and will always be a concern. But Josh running is an experience to behold! 1
billsfan1959 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, SoTier said: I hate to rain on your parade and keep you and the OP tossing and turning with worry but there's a whole lot more to building a successful OL than just collecting a bunch of big guys. I'm sure you'd find the OLers from last season's team are about the same size. That said, they should be better than last year's group simply because last year's group was so lacking in talent, ie blocking ability, agility, strength etc Furthermore, no matter how great an OL a team has, a QB can still get hurt even if he is primarily a pocket QB. Running QBs are in even more danger. Unless Allen can develop as a good passer, his running ability isn't going to scare any opponents "to death". 1. Allen is not a running QB. He is a QB who can run. 2. It is amazing how most of your posts, regardless of the topic, end with some sort of criticism of Allen - as if each thread for you is an exercise in "six degrees to Josh Allen sucks" 1
Buffalo86 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 I'm every bit as concerned about the continuity of our formerly horrid O-line as I was concerned about the continuity of Whaley & Brandon. Not at all.
Bill from NYC Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: I’m sure you mean Jason Peters. To your concern for Allen running for huge yardage, I’m not. The huge yardage comes from a talented and uniquely skilled, fast running QB. I’m sure he didn’t intend to break 30+ yarders every time he broke contain, he just DID. That’s more Freak than recklessness. I get it. It scares the hell outta me too! But we’re witnessing a phenomena. He’s pretty adept at avoiding a big hit. Nobody can defend against cheap shots, ala Kiko. That’s why they’re penalties and will always be a concern. But Josh running is an experience to behold! There is zero doubt that watching Josh run is fun and very exciting, and; he has freakish talent. I was behind this pick from day 1. The thing is, the thrills I get from these great plays would pale in comparison to the anguish that I would feel if he got a serious injury because he had to run. He is a bigger target than Tyrod and many defenders, rule changes and all, have super human strength and are predators. I don't want him to forego the run entirely. It is way too valuable a weapon to not ever use. I just don't want him to have to run as often. His arm is also freakish. 3
SoTier Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: 1. Allen is not a running QB. He is a QB who can run. 2. It is amazing how most of your posts, regardless of the topic, end with some sort of criticism of Allen - as if each thread for you is an exercise in "six degrees to Josh Allen sucks" Whoopty-do. Semantics. Last season Allen depended entirely too much on his ability to run for him to be successful long term as a NFL QB. Partly, that was because he was a rookie. Partly that was because of the crappy team the Bills' supposedly "top 5 GM" put around him. Partly that was because of the inexperienced QB coach the supposedly "great HC" hired. Saying that Allen needs to develop his passing game isn't a snarky criticism of Allen, it's a fact. Even much more polished passers than Allen coming out of college like Goff, Wentz, and Mahomes had to get better as passers in order to have success in the NFL. Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and Jackson will all have to significantly up their passing games if any of them are to have long term success, too -- and there's absolutely no guarantee that any of the 2018 rookie QBs will actually become outstanding NFL QBs long term.
billsfan1959 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, SoTier said: Whoopty-do. Semantics. Last season Allen depended entirely too much on his ability to run for him to be successful long term as a NFL QB. Partly, that was because he was a rookie. Partly that was because of the crappy team the Bills' supposedly "top 5 GM" put around him. Partly that was because of the inexperienced QB coach the supposedly "great HC" hired. Saying that Allen needs to develop his passing game isn't a snarky criticism of Allen, it's a fact. Even much more polished passers than Allen coming out of college like Goff, Wentz, and Mahomes had to get better as passers in order to have success in the NFL. Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and Jackson will all have to significantly up their passing games if any of them are to have long term success, too -- and there's absolutely no guarantee that any of the 2018 rookie QBs will actually become outstanding NFL QBs long term. Except it isn't semantics. If you don't understand the difference between a running QB and a pocket passer that has mobility and the ability to run, then it really says a lot about your ability to accurately assess the QB position. As for the need for Allen to improve, there is really no debate that, like any other QB coming into the NFL, he has a lot to learn and much to improve on. That wasn't my point. My point was you have a history of turning any topic into a criticism of Allen - and that criticism is typically as accurate and insightful as your statement that the difference between a running QB and a pocket QB that can run is "semantics." I have no problem if you want to criticize Allen. Heaven knows there is plenty to criticize at this point. However, most of your criticisms are so clearly skewed to fit a narrative that they tend to lose credibility.
SoTier Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said: This is why we need to draft good blockers. Over the years I have not seen a huge amount of great blockers acquired by trade (unless you want to count the Bills trading HOF Jason Peters) or free agency. I am pretty sure our OL will be better this year, but they still need to dedicate early resources in he draft to give Josh Allen the protection he requires and deserves. What I don't want to see is Josh having to run for huge yardage. RBs don't last so I can't expect Josh to last if he is our leading rusher. I think teams that want to be successful should ALWAYS be on the look out for OL talent because linemen on both sides of the ball are always getting hurt, often times just minor "nicks" but sometimes catastrophic injuries, and having a functional OL is the best insurance for the team's QB. Last year, the Bills OL wasn't functional as either a pass or run blocking unit, and it showed. 1
dgrochester55 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) Hard to tell what will happen, I am just happy that Buffalo did something about this. From last year, Dawkins will at least be for now the left tackle, and Teller will be on the roster as either the starter or a backup. After that, Morse and Spain are the closest to sure things. I feel like Nsekhe or Waddell will grab the RT spot and likely be an upgrade over Sam Mills. From there, you have a few marginal starters looking for a chance. Some will be cut while others will be the next Bodine or Newhouse but based on law of averages, one or two will start or at least be a good backup. You also have the draft to factor in, but overall, I am confident that this line will be much better than last year. Edited April 7, 2019 by dgrochester55
SoTier Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Except it isn't semantics. If you don't understand the difference between a running QB and a pocket passer that has mobility and the ability to run, then it really says a lot about your ability to accurately assess the QB position. As for the need for Allen to improve, there is really no debate that, like any other QB coming into the NFL, he has a lot to learn and much to improve on. That wasn't my point. My point was you have a history of turning any topic into a criticism of Allen - and that criticism is typically as accurate and insightful as your statement that the difference between a running QB and a pocket QB that can run is "semantics." I have no problem if you want to criticize Allen. Heaven knows there is plenty to criticize at this point. However, most of your criticisms are so clearly skewed to fit a narrative that they tend to lose credibility. I understand the difference perfectly well but I'm not going to constantly delineate it when that difference is irrelevant to the idea I was presenting. You're being a "definition nazi" here as opposed to a "grammar nazi". Actually, what loses credibility is your accusation that I'm always criticizing Allen. I really have not. He's a rookie who has a lot to learn. Hopefully he can learn it, and be successful but I won't be surprised if he doesn't. About half of the QBs drafted in the first round who are not the #1 pick in their draft year fail to become franchise QBs. That's not criticism, that;s borne out by the numbers -- and those failures are not always spectacular like with Manziel but more like Bortles or Tannehill. What I have criticized -- and will continue to do so until I see differently -- is the Bills organization for their handling of the QB situation. The team invested a huge amount of talent and draft capital in a very green QB and then failed to give him the support he needed: an unqualified QB coach (no NFL QB coaching experience while his collegiate QB experience as a player and coach was 30+ years ago); no NFL caliber veteran to provide, at worse, a decent example of how a starting QB does his job, and to allow Allen to sit and learn for at least a few games; waiting a month for Derek Anderson to finish his golf tourney before signing him while wasting a roster spot on Peterman; an OL that couldn't pass protect and couldn't run block, which would have given Allen many more options than doing everything himself; a WR corps devoid of speed until the very end of the season with too many serious candidates for an All-NFL poor hands team; The Bills are damned lucky Allen escaped last season physically and psychologically unharmed. Apparently, Beane thinks so, too, because he has taken steps to try to remedy all those deficiencies. The regular season will tell whether his moves were successful.
iinii Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 12 hours ago, The Senator said: I use oxycodone and morphine Better living through chemistry
Cripple Creek Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 14 hours ago, twist_to_open said: I've been lamenting this for a while, we brought a bunch of fresh blood in for our O line and I applaud Beane & co for that, but from what I see is alot of "flex" players and the possibility of another round of mix and match going on during OTAs and camp like last year. Could this be a systemic problem? Or does our new O line coach and O coordinator have a plan of who will be their starters and whose depth? Or will we be fiddling with the line through week 3 or so? Help me out because I haven't slept well for weeks because of this. Better to have continuity concerns than concerns over lack of coaching/ability.
Augie Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Better to have continuity concerns than concerns over lack of coaching/ability. Yeah, status quo was NOT the answer there!
billsfan1959 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 59 minutes ago, SoTier said: I understand the difference perfectly well but I'm not going to constantly delineate it when that difference is irrelevant to the idea I was presenting. You're being a "definition nazi" here as opposed to a "grammar nazi". Actually, what loses credibility is your accusation that I'm always criticizing Allen. I really have not. He's a rookie who has a lot to learn. Hopefully he can learn it, and be successful but I won't be surprised if he doesn't. About half of the QBs drafted in the first round who are not the #1 pick in their draft year fail to become franchise QBs. That's not criticism, that;s borne out by the numbers -- and those failures are not always spectacular like with Manziel but more like Bortles or Tannehill. What I have criticized -- and will continue to do so until I see differently -- is the Bills organization for their handling of the QB situation. The team invested a huge amount of talent and draft capital in a very green QB and then failed to give him the support he needed: an unqualified QB coach (no NFL QB coaching experience while his collegiate QB experience as a player and coach was 30+ years ago); no NFL caliber veteran to provide, at worse, a decent example of how a starting QB does his job, and to allow Allen to sit and learn for at least a few games; waiting a month for Derek Anderson to finish his golf tourney before signing him while wasting a roster spot on Peterman; an OL that couldn't pass protect and couldn't run block, which would have given Allen many more options than doing everything himself; a WR corps devoid of speed until the very end of the season with too many serious candidates for an All-NFL poor hands team; The Bills are damned lucky Allen escaped last season physically and psychologically unharmed. Apparently, Beane thinks so, too, because he has taken steps to try to remedy all those deficiencies. The regular season will tell whether his moves were successful. Actually, you have spent a great deal of time criticizing Allen and, IMO, it has for the most part, not been accurate. As an aside, whether any other QB that ever came into the NFL was successful or not successful has zero relevance to Allen. Zero.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Actually, you have spent a great deal of time criticizing Allen and, IMO, it has for the most part, not been accurate. As an aside, whether any other QB that ever came into the NFL was successful or not successful has zero relevance to Allen. Zero. ...quite frankly, it is ANYTHING to do with Bflo period..... 1
T master Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 With the influx of new players there will be a certain amount time to get to know how each other plays but hopefully OTA's & camp will take some of the edge off & by the time the first game role around each players will have a good clue how the others do things . All will be in a fairly new scheme except the guys coming back from last season but seeing as some are payers that are thrown into the mix when starters get hurt i would think they can pick up quickly while on the run . So don't worry to much it will all work out !!!
Formerly Allan in MD Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 16 hours ago, John from Riverside said: This is why rebiulding the OL through free agency was the way to go......veterans gel more quickly A number of them are on one year deals. How does that enhance continuity? That's one of the reasons we need to draft Taylor or Williams in round one to create some young, solid anchors for this line.
John from Riverside Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: A number of them are on one year deals. How does that enhance continuity? That's one of the reasons we need to draft Taylor or Williams in round one to create some young, solid anchors for this line. Because we are going to get their best as they want a long term contract.....and we have the money to resign ALL of them if they perform.
Chandler#81 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 5 hours ago, SoTier said: Whoopty-do. Semantics. Last season Allen depended entirely too much on his ability to run for him to be successful long term as a NFL QB. Partly, that was because he was a rookie. Partly that was because of the crappy team the Bills' supposedly "top 5 GM" put around him. Partly that was because of the inexperienced QB coach the supposedly "great HC" hired. Saying that Allen needs to develop his passing game isn't a snarky criticism of Allen, it's a fact. Even much more polished passers than Allen coming out of college like Goff, Wentz, and Mahomes had to get better as passers in order to have success in the NFL. Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and Jackson will all have to significantly up their passing games if any of them are to have long term success, too -- and there's absolutely no guarantee that any of the 2018 rookie QBs will actually become outstanding NFL QBs long term. “ I hate to rain on your parade..” Nice way to endear yourself, Sire.
John from Riverside Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 8 hours ago, SoTier said: I hate to rain on your parade and keep you and the OP tossing and turning with worry but there's a whole lot more to building a successful OL than just collecting a bunch of big guys. I'm sure you'd find the OLers from last season's team are about the same size. That said, they should be better than last year's group simply because last year's group was so lacking in talent, ie blocking ability, agility, strength etc Furthermore, no matter how great an OL a team has, a QB can still get hurt even if he is primarily a pocket QB. Running QBs are in even more danger. Unless Allen can develop as a good passer, his running ability isn't going to scare any opponents "to death". It is the next stage in his development......hopefully we see that this year.
Recommended Posts