Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, JMF2006 said: Why worry about continuity? The O line sucked last year and everyone wanted changes. Well here they are(the new linemen) and I for one think the O line will be better and the Bills have not even drafted yet. Good vets that have been around can figure things out in a hurry and with the upgrade at center the line calls should be better. This was my thought. You nail the center down and it gets easier. Morse was the key. Thats fixed and you cycle the other guys not named Dawkins to get the best chemistry? I get it though. You can not really know your starting line until pads are on. Edited April 7, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood
H2o Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 These guys are going to get in a full offseason of work together, TC, and the preseason. I think they'll be just fine.
VW82 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 I'm with OP. I'm cautiously optimistic, but I worry about just how much improvement we'll really see. I fear we'll be in the same position next year trying to build a line from scratch in FA.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, John from Riverside said: This is why rebiulding the OL through free agency was the way to go......veterans gel more quickly Beane said as much... it was important to get guys that they know have done it in this league, or something like that. It was an interview about Morse or one of the others OLs if I recall... Edited April 7, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, twist_to_open said: I've been lamenting this for a while, we brought a bunch of fresh blood in for our O line and I applaud Beane & co for that, but from what I see is alot of "flex" players and the possibility of another round of mix and match going on during OTAs and camp like last year. Could this be a systemic problem? Or does our new O line coach and O coordinator have a plan of who will be their starters and whose depth? Or will we be fiddling with the line through week 3 or so? Help me out because I haven't slept well for weeks because of this. I do agree with you, felt that was a problem last year all the switching in camp and per-season on the line and also at QB hurt. I don't think it's as bad this year though as do feel Morse, Dawkins and Spain will start, so at most that leaves only two slots up for changes. But the sooner they can nail those two spots down the better in the long run. 2 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I keep saying this and saying this. Beane has been clear - he's building the team through the draft. He's using free agency to plug gaps. That means we probably will seen af offensive lineman or two added to the team this year through the draft, and there will be one or two next year, and the year after that. In the meantime, he's signing free agents as he thinks he needs them. I think this also is the plan, however that likely means some of these guys they just signed will be cut. Right now there are 13 offensive line players on the roster 4 players who I believe still have some practice squad eligibility left, three returning players, two of which likely will be cut Bodine and Vlad, and six new players. If you draft one or two (which I'm not disagreeing with) where is a spot for him? Anything below a 5th rounder, you'd be taking a big chance exposing him to waivers to move to practice squad without someone else signing him. Teams usually carry 9 lineman so unless you put all four on the practice squad, at least one one of the new signees likely will also get cut. And likely trying to move Teller to PS will result in another team signing him. If the Bills do draft two lineman with anything below a 5th, that likely does mean some of the new signees will be gone. So do think it may be tricky as to how the team can sign long term replacements, and also field a strong line this year with the players they signed. Edited April 7, 2019 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch
MJS Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 It's unavoidable. We had 4 starting olinemen that aren't fit to be starters in this league. So yeah, upgrading means that everyone is new. Continuity matters, but means nothing unless you get the right guys and talent worth keeping. 2 1
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 5 hours ago, twist_to_open said: I've been lamenting this for a while, we brought a bunch of fresh blood in for our O line and I applaud Beane & co for that, but from what I see is alot of "flex" players and the possibility of another round of mix and match going on during OTAs and camp like last year. Could this be a systemic problem? Or does our new O line coach and O coordinator have a plan of who will be their starters and whose depth? Or will we be fiddling with the line through week 3 or so? Help me out because I haven't slept well for weeks because of this. We needed a massive upgrade across the board so we had to bring in new bodies. However they werent going to spend all the cap to replace the line so they got a bunch quality guys that can do multiple things. Its going to take awhile to get this figured but thats what happens with an overhaul. Dont worry we will win this so its not going to matter in the long run, so sleep tight. P.S., Some of these guys might not make the roster and expect us to draft some as well, now take a nap 4 hours ago, eball said: Bad idea. That causes nightmares. So does melatonin 3
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 Elsewhere on the "Stadium Wall" I saw a reference to an article about college & pro offensive linemen (If anybody can pull this up, please post it). The gist was that college o-linemen play in spread offensives without their hand on the ground and are unprepared for the pro game. In addition to this, labor union rules prevent them from being quickly coached up in the pro's because of practice in shorts and lack of actual contact drills. Therefore, the young veteran players, who have gotten into a season or two of games, perhaps as a backup, are very valuable. They have "learned the ropes" and the ones who never made it have been culled. The Bills have gone out and gotten a bunch (5-7) of these young veterans and are going to let them fight it out for the limited roster spots. An alternative, for the Bills to improve the line is to spend a top 20 or top 10 draft pick on a "can't miss(?)" high ceiling/high floor guy and plug him in right away. What has changed is that teams used to be able to use the 2nd to 4th round to draft a "medium ceiling/medium floor" guy and coach him up to get an average starter (and ocassionaly a good starter). That is less sucessfull these days because of the practice rules hinder the player development. So, I expect the Bills to draft o-linemen in only two ways. 1st in the top 10-20 and also a few "high-ceiling/low floor" cheap (with regard to draft pick cost) guys in the 4th+ rounds. We could carry one or two of these guys and hope for the best. https://nflspinzone.com/2019/04/01/nfl-draft-2019-sleepers-offensive-line/ 2
Nihilarian Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 No need to worry about this years offensive line and here is why! If Josh Allen can survive last years craptastic line which was one of the very worst the bills have fielded in over a decade, he will be alright with this new group. Opposing teams now have to be scared to death of his running ability in which he literally ran away from Miami LBer Kiko Alonso repeatedly. Made him look foolish! They will let him throw the ball and put a spy on him instead of all-out blitzing like they would any other young QB because of his ability to break long runs. The Bills FO has tape on all these free agents picks ups so they know what they are getting with each player! Morse is a veteran stud at his position of center and he will help Allen immensely by calling the protections. Spain is a good veteran LG and he will make Dawkins at LT look/play better. Long was holding his own at OG with the Jets so he should lock down that RG position and Nsekhe should take over at RT. Dawkins 6'5'' 320Lbs Spain 6'4'' 330Lbs Morse 6'6'' 305Lbs Long 6'5'' 318Lbs Nsekhe 6'8'' 330Lbs No defense in the NFL is going to roll over these beefy monsters! I doubt we will see another Joey Bosa type episode against that right side again as we had with Mills, Miller in there. Pass protection should be good as well as run blocking. It could look even better should the FO draft some O linemen in this upcoming draft. Wyatt Teller was a 5th round pick and he was one of the best Bills linemen last season in only allowing 8 pressures in 8 games and he is probably a backup. No more worries about the O line, get some sleep! Wanna worry about something, worry about the TE position! 2
ganesh Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 10 hours ago, JMF2006 said: Why worry about continuity? The O line sucked last year and everyone wanted changes. Well here they are(the new linemen) and I for one think the O line will be better and the Bills have not even drafted yet. Good vets that have been around can figure things out in a hurry and with the upgrade at center the line calls should be better. I think OP was meaning having continuity with the same 5 as starters during OT and TC instead of rotating them in the starting line up every day in TC.
SoTier Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, Nihilarian said: No need to worry about this years offensive line and here is why! If Josh Allen can survive last years craptastic line which was one of the very worst the bills have fielded in over a decade, he will be alright with this new group. Opposing teams now have to be scared to death of his running ability in which he literally ran away from Miami LBer Kiko Alonso repeatedly. Made him look foolish! They will let him throw the ball and put a spy on him instead of all-out blitzing like they would any other young QB because of his ability to break long runs. The Bills FO has tape on all these free agents picks ups so they know what they are getting with each player! Morse is a veteran stud at his position of center and he will help Allen immensely by calling the protections. Spain is a good veteran LG and he will make Dawkins at LT look/play better. Long was holding his own at OG with the Jets so he should lock down that RG position and Nsekhe should take over at RT. Dawkins 6'5'' 320Lbs Spain 6'4'' 330Lbs Morse 6'6'' 305Lbs Long 6'5'' 318Lbs Nsekhe 6'8'' 330Lbs No defense in the NFL is going to roll over these beefy monsters! I doubt we will see another Joey Bosa type episode against that right side again as we had with Mills, Miller in there. Pass protection should be good as well as run blocking. It could look even better should the FO draft some O linemen in this upcoming draft. Wyatt Teller was a 5th round pick and he was one of the best Bills linemen last season in only allowing 8 pressures in 8 games and he is probably a backup. No more worries about the O line, get some sleep! Wanna worry about something, worry about the TE position! I hate to rain on your parade and keep you and the OP tossing and turning with worry but there's a whole lot more to building a successful OL than just collecting a bunch of big guys. I'm sure you'd find the OLers from last season's team are about the same size. That said, they should be better than last year's group simply because last year's group was so lacking in talent, ie blocking ability, agility, strength etc Furthermore, no matter how great an OL a team has, a QB can still get hurt even if he is primarily a pocket QB. Running QBs are in even more danger. Unless Allen can develop as a good passer, his running ability isn't going to scare any opponents "to death". 2
BuffAlone Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 9 hours ago, The Senator said: I use oxycodone and morphine I was gonna suggest more beer, but that's child's play compared to you ?
billsredneck1 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Nihilarian said: Dawkins 6'5'' 320Lbs Spain 6'4'' 330Lbs Morse 6'6'' 305Lbs Long 6'5'' 318Lbs Nsekhe 6'8'' 330Lbs i believe long and nseke played these spots together in wash. the biggest oline improvement that could be made has already been done. juan is gone. 3 hours ago, Nihilarian said: Wyatt Teller was a 5th round pick and he was one of the best Bills linemen last season in only allowing 8 pressures in 8 games and he is probably a backup. he was set from his days in h.s. to become a stud defensive line player.... until his college coach forced the switch due to injuries. i bet had he stayed put, he would have been drafted much higher. maybe they toy with that a bit? i'd like to see him take a few dt snaps.....
dollars 2 donuts Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) Their best signing, Morris, is the only long term signing. I’m confident these guys can work together to have success, while also opening the door for a drafting a new guy each year. Edited April 7, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts
SoCal Deek Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 First off, I hadn’t seen the projected starters listed by height and weight so thanks for that. Second, geez I didn’t realize Morse is 6’-6”? That’s tall for a center! Finally, thank goodness Allen is tall or he’d never see over these dudes!
Chandler#81 Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 10 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I keep saying this and saying this. I recommend some of the narcotic solutions offered in other posts here, because nobody cares to be harped on. As to a complete revamp of our OL, I believe it’s all on Dabol now to commit the scheme we’ll utilize. Having a greenhorn OL Coach should help as he’ll do the OCs bidding and lessen somewhat his learning curve. Consistent in the FA pickups are solid pass protectors vs road graders. To me, that’s telling. Adding another HOFer @ RB who is a great blocker & receiver and, along with the QB, can make something from nothing is telling. The skill sets of the WRs signed is telling. That a few of the OL signed have experience with effective scrambling QBs is also telling. Pass protection can be easily designed where only the route patterns change -as clearly evident in NE*. I'm convinced this offense will be custom tailored to Josh Allen and the OL will ‘gel’ quickly. 1
freddyjj Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 11 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I keep saying this and saying this. Beane has been clear - he's building the team through the draft. He's using free agency to plug gaps. That means we probably will seen af offensive lineman or two added to the team this year through the draft, and there will be one or two next year, and the year after that. In the meantime, he's signing free agents as he thinks he needs them. Shaw66 spot on! The FA signees with longer term - Morse and Long have a future here. Spain, Nsekhe, Waddle and Feliciano will be asked to play key roles as starters/key backups this year as well. look for OBD to draft an OT/G and OG/C prospect after the 3rd to develop. IMHO, McDermott, Ducasse, Bodine and Sirles are released at some point. Boettger and Teller will be PS candidates if they can't make roster - which is entirely possible. Sirles signed a vet minimum deal with no signing bonus so no cap impact if released. Minimal dead cap hit if the other guys get cut too. I see Dawkins as only 2018 carryover assured a job this year. One only needs to look at NE for a template to rotate a mix of young seasoned vets with draft choices to build a consistently strong line. Some years they struggle in early games but get it together by years end. Any OLineman on Bills this year will be learning a new blocking scheme and likely only 1-2 have prior knowledge of Daboll's offense. Next yera will be a little easier.
Bill from NYC Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, VW82 said: I'm with OP. I'm cautiously optimistic, but I worry about just how much improvement we'll really see. I fear we'll be in the same position next year trying to build a line from scratch in FA. This is why we need to draft good blockers. Over the years I have not seen a huge amount of great blockers acquired by trade (unless you want to count the Bills trading HOF Jason Peters) or free agency. I am pretty sure our OL will be better this year, but they still need to dedicate early resources in he draft to give Josh Allen the protection he requires and deserves. What I don't want to see is Josh having to run for huge yardage. RBs don't last so I can't expect Josh to last if he is our leading rusher. Edited April 7, 2019 by Bill from NYC 1
nucci Posted April 7, 2019 Posted April 7, 2019 11 hours ago, twist_to_open said: I've been lamenting this for a while, we brought a bunch of fresh blood in for our O line and I applaud Beane & co for that, but from what I see is alot of "flex" players and the possibility of another round of mix and match going on during OTAs and camp like last year. Could this be a systemic problem? Or does our new O line coach and O coordinator have a plan of who will be their starters and whose depth? Or will we be fiddling with the line through week 3 or so? Help me out because I haven't slept well for weeks because of this. Really?
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