Thoughts on new Oline?

[chris heff]

I’m confused, Spain looks like a solid player that wants to be in Buffalo, why a one year deal?

[YattaOkasan]

6 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I’m confused, Spain looks like a solid player that wants to be in Buffalo, why a one year deal?

I think he didnt get the market he wanted in FA.  So hes doing a prove it deal to increase the $$s he gets on a long term deal.  I think this year he wasnt happy with the $$'s on the multi year deals he saw.

[RyanC883]

I love this new line.  These are not just "get a vet" signings.  Morse is a Pro-Bowl level center.  He will be a tremendous help to the rest of the line and to Allen.  I think Dawkins and Spain are also safe at T and G.  I think either or both of Nsekhe (we need a nickname, I can't spell his name) and Long will have competition from a rookie, depending on how the draft falls.  My guess is that it's Long, because the draft appears deeper at Guard (I could see us taking McCoy from A&M, making Bodine's backup spot questionable unless McCoy wins a starting spot at G.). 

 

Overall, the BEST part about this new OL is that it is much better than anything we have had in a while, and frees us up for BPA.  If we draft an OL high, I see a trade-back into the first or trade up/back into the 2nd as the most likely scenario. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The OL is close to set. They may add another guy in the mid rounds (tackle maybe) but as it stands now they will be cutting guys that have played a lot. They absolutely aren’t taking an OL early. The plan was clearly to address OL in FA. The Bills signed a top center, 2 surefire starters that we are underrating on here in Spain and Nsekhe, Dawkins still has a spot as well. That leaves 1 open spot (RG) and Long, Teller, Feliciano, Sirles, Boettger, Bodine, Vlad etc... competing for it. Waddle is your swing tackle and a couple of the guys trying for RG as your depth. You are likely keeping 8 (at most 9) OL. 

 

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

When it comes to Free Agency, always keep in mind.... There was a reason these players were allowed to leave their former teams.  All of them have flaws and question marks.  And if you are expecting us to suddenly have the NFL's best blocking unit, you will probably be disappointed.  At the same time, very good players can be found in Free Agency every single year.  Guys like Lorenzo Alexander, Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer were fantastic upgrades that came from Free Agency.  While all of these players have question marks, every addition gives us reason to be optimistic as well.

 

 

Mitch Morse has consistently proven to be a Top 10 center in the NFL.  There is a reason he was our top target, and he's the addition most of us are excited about.  Of course, there are some concerns about his injury history - specifically with concussions.  For a team forced into tough cap decisions, the Chiefs were not willing to make a long-term commitment for that very reason.  If he stays healthy, this should be an awesome signing for us.

 

Ty Nsekhe was widely considered the best backup OT in the NFL.  He's been stuck behind a perennial Pro-Bowler in Trent Williams and pretty good RT in Morgan Moses.  Every time he's gotten into the starting lineup (16 starts in 4 years), he's performed extremely well.  As long as he fits the scheme, there is no reason to believe he won't be a tremendous upgrade for us.  The only issue here is age.  He got a late start in the NFL and already turns 34 in October.

 

Quinton Spain has been a solid starter for the Titans for the last 3-4 years.  Nothing Pro-Bowl level, but certainly better than anything we've fielded since Ritchie Incognito left.  From what I understand, he doesn't quite fit the scheme that new Titans offensive coordinator Arthur Smith wants to run.  That's what made him expendable.  For us, adding a "solid" guard is a monstrous improvement.

 

Spencer Long was a pretty good player for the Redskins, but then completely bombed after signing a decent contract with the Jets last year.  Which player are we getting?  There are many who think he just wasn't a great Center and will be better with a move-back to Guard.  Time will tell. 

 

Jon Feliciano was considered strong depth for the Raiders.  LaAdrian Waddle was considered strong depth for the Patriots.  Last year, both of these guys would have been unquestioned starters on the Bills, because our roster was so weak.  I imagine both will be given the chance to win a starting position.  But if not, they will give us strong depth.

 

 

 

Kirby and mjt,  please keep these replies at the ready for the entire offseason OL discussions  Both are spot on!

 

21 minutes ago, billspro said:

Really excited to see how the oline battle plays out in TC. 

 

Morse, Dawkins, Spain and Nsekhe will all be on the 1st team to start the summer and all probably will be there at the end.

The real battle will be at RG and on the 2nd team for depth.

Of course, someone's play could be outstanding and move one of the 4 starter off the 1st team.

That is all gravy if it happens.

 

Morse will work with Josh on OL blocking calls and blitz pickups throughout the summer.

The 4 starting vets will offer stability and will give Josh Allen the best line he played behind in his entire career.

An average OL will be very good for JA's development.  I'm hoping they can be above average.

 

Dawkins will get spelled by Nsekhe at LT since he will be the primary LT backup.  He will be the starting RT.

This will make Dawkins improve his play since he had zero competition last year.

 

Bodine will in all likelihood stay through the 4th preseason game.  His fate will be determined by his competition (Long/?) at backup C.

A mid round RT in the draft to compete with Waddle and McDermott is a definite maybe because there is only 4 tackles going to

camp so far.

 

I'm excited with this new unit going into camp!

[custcarcen]

2 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Wouldn't it be wild if the line actually ends up being Nsekhe, Dawkins, Morse, Spain, Waddle? Or even swap Waddle for Jawaan Taylor, for argument's sake.

Not wild at all. Both Nsekhe and Dawkins have graded out poorly on the right side. They are both better on the left. The determining factor for all of the O lineman will be our new OL coach though and that has been the best OL signing of all.

[freddyjj]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

The Bills signed Sirles to, you guessed it, a one year extension.  He can play inside or out, and can be 6th OL when we go big.  My guess is Sirles is in Bills plans.  

 

We have much depth at OL and WR.  Cuts will be very tough.  Might Beane swing a trade?  Player trades are big in the NFL these days, especially this time of year.  Mr Beane is a dealmaker

Sirles signed a vet minimum contract for $805k.  No signing bonus, no guarantee and no dead cap hit if cut.  If the Bills draft someone like Risner a T/G prospect, Sirles will be gone.  Evan as it is I think Conor McDermott and Sirles are dead men walking at OBD.

[Seasons1992]

5 hours ago, I am the egg man said:

They haven't practiced together yet.

 

Outside of a know-it-all soothsayer, no one could formulate an intelligent serious opinion on the new O-line so soon.

 

Unless one is throwing darts at this.

 

 

 

Well, duh!

 

[freddyjj]

6 minutes ago, custcarcen said:

Not wild at all. Both Nsekhe and Dawkins have graded out poorly on the right side. They are both better on the left. The determining factor for all of the O lineman will be our new OL coach though and that has been the best OL signing of all.

Not sure where the "Dawkins can't play RT" is coming from?  Best I could find in season he has played maybe 70-100 snaps at RT and that was in 2017.  IMHO, one of these guys will be at RT in 2019 as can't see a rookie prospect or Waddle winning the job.

 

I do like Johnson as new OL coach.  Power run block with Dish pass blocking sounds good to me.

[John from Riverside]

My good feeling on them is this is a completely veteran offensive line......to go in front of our 2nd year QB

 

If we can run the ball....everything else will open up

[ROCBillsBeliever]

2 hours ago, Mickey said:

As bad as the line was last year, this new line could hardly help being better. Is it play off caliber though? I have no opinion on that until I see them actually play together as a unit. In the end though, there is no question that we are moving in the right direction.

 

I agree, but also, moving on from Juan Castillo needs to be factored in here. I know Dawkins admitted he relaxed his focus a bit last year, but some of his sophomore regression can also be attributed to Castillo. We can't be in much worse of a position, line coach wise, and a lot of the gelling that needs to take place this year will be on Bobby Johnson's shoulders. I'm hoping that makes a big difference in what we see on the field!

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

Spain and Long are/were longtime starters and I expect them to win the starting OG spots.  If someone beats them out, so much the better. At RT it’s either Nsekhe or Waddle, but my money’s on Nsekhe.  

My prediction is Nsekhe will be a substantial upgrade at RT over Mills.

[Misterbluesky]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I feel like we are now completely set at 4 of the positions.  We have an option at RT, but I think that's the only spot left for them to bring in competition.  I wouldn't be shocked if they went OT at 9 still.  Either way, it's infinitely better than it was before

Greg Cosell was just on with Murph and Steve for his weekly Friday visit.He said outside of Morse (lock) and Long, he doesn't see a starter in the new group.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Greg Cosell was just on with Murph and Steve for his weekly Friday visit.He said outside of Morse (lock) and Long, he doesn't see a starter in the new group.

Cosell is full of crap because Dawkins IS a starter

[Misterbluesky]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Cosell is full of crap because Dawkins IS a starter

John...the new players that were brought in.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

John...the new players that were brought in.

Sorry, 

 

I dont mean to direct this at you.   Its still crap.....Even if someone subcribed that some of these guys are viewed as backup players.......Spain, Morse, Dawkins are def not.

 

that is 3 out of the 5......to me the only real question mark is if Ngesky (sp) can man the RT spot when he has been good at the LT spot.   Waddle is a EXCELLENT swing OT.....

[colin]

the fact that we don't have the roster spots elsewhere makes me think we go TE in the draft.  maybe that top guy from Iowa if he is there at 9, maybe noah font if we trade down, or trade back up into the 1st after our first pick.

 

top guy (hock) makes a lot of sense since he's a good blocker, so that helps the OL too.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, colin said:

the fact that we don't have the roster spots elsewhere makes me think we go TE in the draft.  maybe that top guy from Iowa if he is there at 9, maybe noah font if we trade down, or trade back up into the 1st after our first pick.

 

top guy (hock) makes a lot of sense since he's a good blocker, so that helps the OL too.

I like Hock because you dont tip what you are going to do on offense....he is a every down player

[colin]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I like Hock because you dont tip what you are going to do on offense....he is a every down player

 

exactly.

 

people forget before gronk there were two top flight TEs in NE (graham and watson, I THINK, prolly have names wrong), and they got 3 chips in 4 years.

 

people like to talk about quick white WRs running 4 yard routes, but they miss out on the mauling o line (who are better as a unit than as individual players, not a squad of stars by any stretch) and the combo of power backs and speedy wheel route running guys, and the TEs who are a mismatch.

 

it's basically rock paper scissors with subterfuge, and i think that's what dabol is going for and i like it.

[Bockeye]

Sorry to keep posting links in threads, but there is a ton of interesting information about how to build an O-line in this day and age (Written by Bucky Brooks who was a former scout).  Its going to be interesting to see what we have with ours come fall.  The article below makes a really interesting and relevant point (among others), and maybe one of the reasons the Bills added vets in FA.  I personally like bringing in a bunch of vets to compete while continuing to develop some young players (Teller). 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000845643/article/does-nfl-have-offensive-line-problem-plus-jared-goffs-growth

 

"You don't have enough time to develop guys on the field," a veteran offensive line coach who's worked at all levels of the game told me. "Playing on the offensive line requires a lot of reps and you simply don't have enough opportunities to teach them through live contact. Plus, the padded-practice limitations during the regular season make it harder to prepare young players to get ready for the pro game."

 

"Yeah, because they don't get to practice," Arians told reporters. "Offensive linemen and defensive linemen can't get better in shorts. And they're prohibited from going one-on-one. That's all they do for a living. So of course they're going to get worse, because we can't practice. And then only one practice a day in training camp, only one practice a day during the week up until, what, about Week 14? So, it's extremely hard to get young offensive linemen better. Because they don't ever get to practice football. They're not getting any better practicing soccer

 

I suppose you can make this argument about any position, but would tend to agree that the heavy physical contact positions (O and D lines) cannot be really replicated in practice. 

[VW82]

That practice issue cuts both ways. Yes you want guys who have experience and have already developed their game at the NFL level. OTOH it's tough to develop cohesion if you're cycling new guys in every year because you're constantly looking at vets on one year prove it deals, or contracts that are designed for the team to cut bait after a year.

 

I had hoped we'd look at finding a top flight tackle this year in the draft with the plan of trying Dawkins instead at guard given his history. It sounds like the draft sucks this year as far as sure fire O lineman. Perhaps Dawkins just needs more stability next to him. I'm not sure we're going to get that with Spain but we'll see. In any event, It's easy to believe this current group will be an improvement over last year even if they're only together for one season.   

Edited April 5, 2019 by VW82