The Senator Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: .LMAO.......damn you're painful.......... Tix are selling for 6 bucks! .
JPL7 Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 8 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said: Bills fans would show up to watch the bills play in an empty parking lot with lawn chairs. As long as there was beer... Who needs a fancy Billion dollar stadium.. Thats not our style.. ? Preach the good word, brother!
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: One thing to consider with renovating New Era field up to a level more consistent with today's NFL stadiums is, as anyone who has moved into a fixer upper can attest, once you start tearing down stuff to replace or fix, you are going to find more "issues" that need to be addressed. A lot of times fixing those issues is just about as expensive as the planned renovation. It took me three days to replace a toilet in my house because the standard size of the flange on a toilet in 1952 was no longer the standard size of toilet flanges today. Now multiply that times a thousand for the "Ralph". It will be a nightmare. Another thing to consider is that the Bills have no where else to play football if they go down this renovation road. That means that any renovation will have to be completed between football seasons. Not much renovating done outside in WNY in January and February due to the weather. That leaves a roughly 5 month window to get things taken apart and put back together in time for the next season to start. That's not a very big window to do hundreds of millions of dollars worth of renovations. So it will need to be done incrementally and doing something incrementally increases the cost of the renovations. It's cheaper doing construction to bring in the whole gang one time and get er done than to set up and tear down, and set up and tear down... I firmly believe it is going to end up being a new construction somewhere down town. As I noted in a recent post, there is simply too much money to be made by everyone... politicians, developers, union bosses, etc.. by building a new stadium down town. There will be pressure from all of those entities to tie any public monies to a new stadium, with a roof, downtown. None of this will get done without public money, and ultimately I think they will only get that money with a new downtown stadium. ...as we in construction would say, two key words are "change orders"......and the financial magnitude can and usually is never ending....who funds those?... 9 minutes ago, The Senator said: Tix are selling for 6 bucks! . ...BUT....popcorn is ala carte............ 1
Saxum Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...considering the economy of scale in WNY, it may be a tall tariff for Bills fans only to weather increased ticket prices and the likelihood of PSL's to generate enough revenue to cover the debt service for usage of 8 times a year....have no idea what other events, etc could be booked, but a domed facility may give the flexibility to spread the costs over "other than Bills fans".....preetty interesting article on what was projected/intended for Lucas Oil Field multi-use versus what has actually transpired..... https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/marion-county/2018/08/17/lucas-oil-stadium-indianapolis-colts-ncaa-final-four-public-stadium-financing/879179002/ The Colts play in the stadium for $250,000 per year, they pay nothing for maintenance, they get up to $3.5 million annually in revenue from other stadium events, they get all $6 million per year from naming rights to the stadium and they get the "profit portion" of concession revenue — about $5.3 million in 2013, according to an IndyStar analysis. The Colts contributed $107 million to the $720 million stadium, but the club also received a $48 million payment to void the RCA Dome lease. Sounds like Jim Overdorf wrote contract where all of the benefits were for one side and neglected to include financial penalties for players violating rules.
KRT88 Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 I got it! Build a new stadium with ALL the seats in the end zones and each sideline can be build straight up with luxury suites and theater seating. It would be cheaper because the stadium footprint would be small and seriously ugly but new! ? seriously, the billionaire can do whatever they like but no dome
LSHMEAB Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, KRT88 said: I got it! Build a new stadium with ALL the seats in the end zones and each sideline can be build straight up with luxury suites and theater seating. It would be cheaper because the stadium footprint would be small and seriously ugly but new! ? seriously, the billionaire can do whatever they like but no dome Right, wrong, or indifferent, I can't imagine they build a true outdoor stadium. I think the entire point is to modernize and that includes a climate controlled environment. I'm not opining on whether that's good or bad; just my two cents. 1
TigerJ Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 I only make it to games very occasionally. I'm fine with New Era Field. The only problem I have is when my tickets are in the nosebleed area of cheap seats. As I've gotten older, it's gotten a lot tougher to climb all those big steps. The last game I went to, I made sure I got seats near an exit. That was much better. Food is not an issue for me. I don't mind the rather spartan seating. I know there are probably those who like a little more luxury. Myself, I'd rather have the cheaper tickets (as long as their aren't too high up).
The Senator Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 Folks just don’t realize, the most problematic part of renovating the current stadium is widening the concourses and adding more restrooms, which simpy cannot be done without tearing down the perimeter walls. You cannot expand the concourses on the inside - you have to do it on the outside. Once you accept that incontrovertible fact, you’ll understand that we’d essentially be building a new stadium, and it’d be quicker to just build a new one downtown. . 1 1
Boatdrinks Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Limeaid said: Slight exaggeration of "welfare levels" unless you are telling us you are on welfare and can afford it. My debate teacher taught me that "Exaggeration is a tool of the unprepared mind". Ha ha ha. Lime, you are a quick wit . Wonder what your sage educator taught you about childish insults? While you apparently don’t care for my choice of modifier, the fact remains the Bills ticket pricing is bottom of the league. Call that bargain basement, low rent, whatever. Not sure how you gleaned your curious assumption about my status from my post , but my point is a valid one from a business perspective. It also contributes more to the conversation (er,debate?) than your platitudes about how things ought to work if we lived in a perfect world. We all know that we don’t. Edited April 2, 2019 by Boatdrinks
Boatdrinks Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 2 hours ago, The Senator said: Folks just don’t realize, the most problematic part of renovating the current stadium is widening the concourses and adding more restrooms, which simpy cannot be done without tearing down the perimeter walls. You cannot expand the concourses on the inside - you have to do it on the outside. Once you accept that incontrovertible fact, you’ll understand that we’d essentially be building a new stadium, and it’d be quicker to just build a new one downtown. . Right. You would pretty much tear everything down but the sunken portion. I don’t know if the cost would still be less, but I would venture that it might not be.
Saxum Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 2 hours ago, The Senator said: Folks just don’t realize, the most problematic part of renovating the current stadium is widening the concourses and adding more restrooms, which simpy cannot be done without tearing down the perimeter walls. You cannot expand the concourses on the inside - you have to do it on the outside. Once you accept that incontrovertible fact, you’ll understand that we’d essentially be building a new stadium, and it’d be quicker to just build a new one downtown. . It would be quicker to just demolish the stadium and let the Bills go elsewhere but that does not make it better nor does a new downtown stadium unless it your goal was to go to such a stadium.
Saxum Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Ha ha ha. Lime, you are a quick wit . Wonder what your sage educator taught you about childish insults? While you apparently don’t care for my choice of modifier, the fact remains the Bills ticket pricing is bottom of the league. Call that bargain basement, low rent, whatever. Not sure how you gleaned your curious assumption about my status from my post , but my point is a valid one from a business perspective. It also contributes more to the conversation (er,debate?) than your platitudes about how things ought to work if we lived in a perfect world. We all know that we don’t. I was taught that childish insults of adults acting like children are appropriate. There is a difference between denotations and connotations and exaggerating to make your point does not added to conversation. When you use words with negative connotations ("welfare") you are trying to move argument using emotions when you facts do not support it. No it is not a perfect world otherwise we would not have politicians doing slamming of opposition candidates often with exaggerated or false info.
mrags Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 15 hours ago, Logic said: I just don't think this is what the NFL wants, and at the end of the day, thats who the Bills need to make happy. I HAVE wondered, though, why they don't do the old "parking lot stadium swap-a-roo" like the Broncos did. Build a new stadium on the current site of the New Era parking lots, and turn the current New Era Field into new parking lots. Orchard Park is just such a perfect location for the Bills stadium. Why change a thing? On the other hand, I think the NFL wants the stadium downtown. And a multi-use downtown stadium (with at least a retractable roof, as gross as that sounds) is probably the best way to get the funds needed to build the thing. As long as the Bills stay in Buffalo, I'll be fine with whatever ultimately needs to happen to get to that point. It’s not just the NFL that wants the stadium downtown. The Pegulas want it downtown. If people don’t see the monopoly they are creating for themselves downtown, they don’t have their eyes open. They are in the process of controlling everything in downtown Buffalo. The Arena. Hotels. Bars. Restaurants. Breweries. The list goes on and on. A stadium downtown with shopping and more restaurants just makes them more money. More people stay at their hotels and eat at their restaurants, drink in their bars, shop in their stores, and watch games of their teams. Spending weeks worth of paychecks coming from out of town. 2
Doc Brown Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, mrags said: It’s not just the NFL that wants the stadium downtown. The Pegulas want it downtown. If people don’t see the monopoly they are creating for themselves downtown, they don’t have their eyes open. They are in the process of controlling everything in downtown Buffalo. The Arena. Hotels. Bars. Restaurants. Breweries. The list goes on and on. A stadium downtown with shopping and more restaurants just makes them more money. More people stay at their hotels and eat at their restaurants, drink in their bars, shop in their stores, and watch games of their teams. Spending weeks worth of paychecks coming from out of town. I agree. All the jobs they'll create makes me sick. College kids born here may actually stay here.
Boatdrinks Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 46 minutes ago, Limeaid said: I was taught that childish insults of adults acting like children are appropriate. There is a difference between denotations and connotations and exaggerating to make your point does not added to conversation. When you use words with negative connotations ("welfare") you are trying to move argument using emotions when you facts do not support it. No it is not a perfect world otherwise we would not have politicians doing slamming of opposition candidates often with exaggerated or false info. That is a strange interpretation to say the least. There is/ was nothing childish about my choice of modifier. There is no argument. Merely the fact that the Bills average ticket price is among the league’s lowest. Hence the reference. Please explain what “ facts” you are referring to that don’t support this. The modifier is not an exaggeration, but a description of the Bills ticket cost comparative to the rest of the league. Refusing to consider the business aspects of the stadium discussion while demanding the Bills to operate in some sort of business vacuum that isn’t typical of other teams in the league is nonsense. One must acknowledge that while typical funding sources of stadia around the league is far from ideal, that is the world the Bills are playing in.
mrags Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 Just now, Doc Brown said: I agree. All the jobs they'll create makes me sick. College kids born here may actually stay here. The amount of jobs already created are sick. Just last week I went on a limo bus brewery crawl. We went to one brewery downtown near the arena that the Pegulas either owned or had a stake in (don’t remember which one). It was massively huge. Then we got a private tour of the hidden speakeasy upstairs that Terry wanted done. It was one of the coolest things I’ve seen in downtown Buffalo. Just pointing out that the Pegulas have their hand in everything down there now. Nothing gets done without their say so. And much of it they control. A new stadium downtown continues their takeover of the area. With the help of New Era, Jacobs, and anyone else trying to profit from everything, they will fully find the new stadium that will most likely surpass 1B.
Boatdrinks Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: It would be quicker to just demolish the stadium and let the Bills go elsewhere but that does not make it better nor does a new downtown stadium unless it your goal was to go to such a stadium. The Bills are a business. Their goal as a business is to make more profit. The current stadium limits this ability. Aside from taking politically virtuous yet wholly unrealistic stances , there isn’t much point to your takes in this thread. You don’t want a new stadium. Fine. That doesn’t mean the Bills don’t want it or that one won’t get built.
BuffaloBill Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 Some of this may simply be positioning for negotiations. Erie Countyslong with the State has no easily grabbed revenue source to pay for a new stadium.
HOUSE Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 Ripping down the Rockpile was a big mistake, we had everything Cheap tickets and a lovely neighborhood
Doc Brown Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 Just build a dome like Lucas Oil stadium in Orchard Park so people can still jump through tables before a game. People (especially older people) will pay higher ticket prices if they know they won't freeze. I get the football was meant to be played outside sentiment, but you can have an immense home field advantage with the increase in crowd noise you get from a dome.
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