blacklabel Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 Solid player. Definitely has the characteristics McBeane look for in prospects. But if it came down to him or Oliver, I'm going Oliver simply because you can do more with him and McD loves versatility.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Lurker said: He definitely sounds like a McD kind of guy... https://www.colts.com/news/colts-at-the-combine-whoever-drafts-christian-wilkins-is-getting-a-culture-chang "I just really want teams to realize that if they get me then they're investing in something bigger than just football. They're investing in so much more. The ability I have to not only dominate on the field and be effective on the field, but to also just improve culture — whether it's good, bad, ugly, different, (I’ll) just improve culture,” Wilkins said. “I feel like ultimately I'm the kind of guy you want in the locker room, you want on your team, and you just want on the field with you, because I'm someone who's just extremely committed at being the best at my craft, and to my teammates just being the best player I can be,” Wilkins continued. “That's my goal, and that's what I plan to do on any team that I go to in the NFL." Man you'd think he dominated the college football landscape with that bravado. Sounds like A-Rod talking when he was acquired by the Yankees........but without the production to accompany it.
OldTimer1960 Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 9 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: Depends on who's there but I think Ed Oliver is potential All Pro/DPOY status so he's my #1 choice. I can see why many think so highly of Oliver - his quickness is undeniable and he appears to play very hard. My concerns with Oliver are: 1. Height/length - he is not short, but below ideal height for the position and his arms are relatively short for the position as well 2. Weight - He is certainly strong, but he will be giving away 40 to 50 pounds to NFL offensive lineman. Can he thrive giving up that much mass and for how long? 3. Level of competition - Rice, Texas Southern, Tulsa, East Carolina, Navy, South Florida, SMU, Temple, Tulane, Memphis and Army were all on the schedule in 2018. On the flip-side, He didn’t have much talent around him on Houston to take opponent’s attention off him. None of the above means that he isn’t a very good prospect nor that he can’t find great success in the NFL, but they are (IMHO) legitimate areas of concern when comparing him against other prospects.
GimmeSomeProcess Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 1:42 PM, BADOLBILZ said: Is it REALLY an over-generalization saying that 24 tackles as a sophomore and 25 tackles two seasons later as a senior is "leveling off" statistically? Or how about 13 TFL as a sophomore versus 14 TFL as a senior? And yes.......his TFL's declined to 9 as a junior......so that's bad........ and his sacks went from 3.5 sophomore year to 5.5 as a senior.......so that's good.......but those are very modest changes in otherwise flat production. Total tackles as a sophomore were 48 and had more tackles the following year and more sacks. His stats improved, albeit slightly but did improve. They did not level off. Historically compared with other DTS his statistics are very good.
John from Riverside Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 10:42 AM, BADOLBILZ said: Is it REALLY an over-generalization saying that 24 tackles as a sophomore and 25 tackles two seasons later as a senior is "leveling off" statistically? Or how about 13 TFL as a sophomore versus 14 TFL as a senior? And yes.......his TFL's declined to 9 as a junior......so that's bad........ and his sacks went from 3.5 sophomore year to 5.5 as a senior.......so that's good.......but those are very modest changes in otherwise flat production. Still a very good player.....especially in a trade down scenario.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: Total tackles as a sophomore were 48 and had more tackles the following year and more sacks. His stats improved, albeit slightly but did improve. They did not level off. Historically compared with other DTS his statistics are very good. Slight improvement over a three year period.........like Christian Wilkins going from 24 tackles to 25 tackles...........or 13 TFL to 14 TFL..........IS leveling off. I want to see a 23 year old senior college DT show marked improvement over his previous seasons...............if you are going to convince people that you are going to be a star in the NFL then you ought to be able to show some trajectory at the college level...........a lack of that raises questions about a player reaching their ceiling. You want to talk yourself into a player because you are living in a fantasy land where players who try hard and say the right things is why a team wins Super Bowls...............and yet these were the same guys that were trying to acquire Antonio Brown 3 weeks ago.............fortunately they know they need some big difference makers even if you don't. My advice.......scale back the indignance...........you don't need to make yourself look incapable of understanding simple concepts. 1
LABILLBACKER Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 8:27 AM, Pete said: He has Bills dna. Leader on Clemson team, and was unstoppable against Alabama. I like him a lot after a trade down. I prefer Oliver, but a beve of 2nd,3rd and future picks I would trade down. My mantra is stockpile 2nd and 3rd rounders! Prefer Quinnen but know he will be gone. We'll probably take Oliver and Wilkins only on a trade down in the 15-20 range.
LSHMEAB Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Slight improvement over a three year period.........like Christian Wilkins going from 24 tackles to 25 tackles...........or 13 TFL to 14 TFL..........IS leveling off. I want to see a 23 year old senior college DT show marked improvement over his previous seasons...............if you are going to convince people that you are going to be a star in the NFL then you ought to be able to show some trajectory at the college level...........a lack of that raises questions about a player reaching their ceiling. You want to talk yourself into a player because you are living in a fantasy land where players who try hard and say the right things is why a team wins Super Bowls...............and yet these were the same guys that were trying to acquire Antonio Brown 3 weeks ago.............fortunately they know they need some big difference makers even if you don't. My advice.......scale back the indignance...........you don't need to make yourself look incapable of understanding simple concepts. This guy just feels like John McCargo. Not saying he's gonna bust and he was more productive than McCargo to be sure, but I'm dubious of a guy coming from such a stacked line. Edited April 2, 2019 by LSHMEAB
JohnC Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 4:17 AM, GunnerBill said: That sums it up for me. He is one of the safest picks the Bills (or any other team) could make. I like him a lot and I am convinced he will be a starter in the league for a long time. Whether the positional value is there for a non pass rushing DT in the top 15 of the draft I am less sure. I think he will go around the middle of the first. Atlanta at #14 possibly? If you can get an outside or inside pass rushing lineman why would the Bills consider an interior lineman who can't get much of a push from his position? I'm not suggesting that he won't be an immediate plug and play player but as you smartly noted the positional value doesn't rise to the level where we are drafting in the first round. Ed Oliver is the player with the attributes that we need from a highly drafted DT. 1
Dkollidas Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 I like Wilkins and wouldn’t be upset if they took him. I think he’s more of a McDermott Pick than a Beane pick. I look more at the 2018 draft than the 2017 draft to see how they will proceed organizationally. 2017 was still Whaley’s scouting staff. 2018 was full McBeane show.
GimmeSomeProcess Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: This guy just feels like John McCargo to me. I'm not interested. This is so dead wrong. Mccargo has .5 sack in two seasons and 9 tkls for loss. He was less athletic at 20 pounds lesser and a lot less strong. McCargo has no business being drafted Edited April 2, 2019 by GimmeSomeProcess
LSHMEAB Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: This is so dead wrong. Mccargo has .5 sack in two seasons and 9 tkls for loss. He was less athletic at 20 pounds lesser and a lot less strong. McCargo has no business being drafted I didn't say they were identical players. Wilkins played on a stacked line at Clemson much like McCargo did at NC State, so it's really difficult to determine how good he actually is. The idea that he's some lock to be an impact player at the next level seems off. It would be hard to bust to the extent McCargo busted and I assume Wilkins will be better than McCargo. I just don't get the hype.
GimmeSomeProcess Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I didn't say they were identical players. Wilkins played on a stacked line at Clemson much like McCargo did at NC State, so it's really difficult to determine how good he actually is. The idea that he's some lock to be an impact player at the next level seems off. It would be hard to bust to the extent McCargo busted and I assume Wilkins will be better than McCargo. I just don't get the hype. This is true but Wilkins is an actual player on that line. McCargo was awful and had no right being drafted, let alone first round. It blows my mind we took him. I think Wilkins is a beast and would be ok with the pick. However, he’s not my first, second or third choice. Much rather Oliver, Sweat, JE,JT and TJ Edited April 2, 2019 by GimmeSomeProcess 1
billsredneck1 Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) On 3/29/2019 at 11:32 AM, 1ZAYDAY1 said: Shows in this video.... he is a process/Buffalo type guy! Go BlueCheese Christian ok like him. he would love the tailgating in buffalo. 07:10 am and i'm feeling like firing up the grill..... edit: while i do like this guy, we already have him on this team. just kick shaq inside....play murphy/lorax and love at end...or try to move down a couple of spots and pick sweat. i'd rather do that and target tillery or..... Edited April 2, 2019 by billsredneck1
FeelingOnYouboty Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 13 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: I can see why many think so highly of Oliver - his quickness is undeniable and he appears to play very hard. My concerns with Oliver are: 1. Height/length - he is not short, but below ideal height for the position and his arms are relatively short for the position as well 2. Weight - He is certainly strong, but he will be giving away 40 to 50 pounds to NFL offensive lineman. Can he thrive giving up that much mass and for how long? 3. Level of competition - Rice, Texas Southern, Tulsa, East Carolina, Navy, South Florida, SMU, Temple, Tulane, Memphis and Army were all on the schedule in 2018. On the flip-side, He didn’t have much talent around him on Houston to take opponent’s attention off him. None of the above means that he isn’t a very good prospect nor that he can’t find great success in the NFL, but they are (IMHO) legitimate areas of concern when comparing him against other prospects. He's not a perfect prospect but I feel fairly confident in him. He's my guy but I'm not going to be throwing a tantrum if McDermott/Beane go a different way.
Pete Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Prefer Quinnen but know he will be gone. We'll probably take Oliver and Wilkins only on a trade down in the 15-20 range. Wawrow's post has me thinking. The only players I see us trading up for are Williams and Oliver
John from Riverside Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 3 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: He's not a perfect prospect but I feel fairly confident in him. He's my guy but I'm not going to be throwing a tantrum if McDermott/Beane go a different way. I dont know if I want to be trading up for a "not perfect" prospect. I thought Sammy Watkins was as close to perfect as it gets....and look what happened there 1
FeelingOnYouboty Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I dont know if I want to be trading up for a "not perfect" prospect. I thought Sammy Watkins was as close to perfect as it gets....and look what happened there Man I like DeAndre Hopkins the year before but I was in love with Sammy Watkins. Especially after he torched Ohio State.
LSHMEAB Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 10 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: This is true but Wilkins is an actual player on that line. McCargo was awful and had no right being drafted, let alone first round. It blows my mind we took him. I think Wilkins is a beast and would be ok with the pick. However, he’s not my first, second or third choice. Much rather Oliver, Sweat, JE,JT and TJ Looking back at McCargo's stat line, it really is BAFFLING that he was a first round pick. He was young and probably tested well I suppose. Probably considered a "space eater" for Mario and Lawson. I mention him in the same breath as Wilkins because that Clemson line is so stacked. I'm leery of the pick myself and would rather have anyone on your list over Wilkins. Time will tell as they say.
John from Riverside Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Looking back at McCargo's stat line, it really is BAFFLING that he was a first round pick. He was young and probably tested well I suppose. Probably considered a "space eater" for Mario and Lawson. I mention him in the same breath as Wilkins because that Clemson line is so stacked. I'm leery of the pick myself and would rather have anyone on your list over Wilkins. Time will tell as they say. The McCargo pick is the one thing that worries about taking a D linemen from a good college offensive line........it really does 1
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