Best ever NFL running back

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

Purely opinion based. I, too, lived through that era. He fit THERE. Period.

Yes, opinion based.  If you took Brown and put him in the league today he would lead the league in rushing.

 

You're one of the mods, right?  You should know this is a board where opinions are shared, right?

2 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

Makes a ton of sense. Trying to compare greats across different eras is impossible. 

Always fun to debate.  I would have Brown, but you could make a case for at least a dozen more guys.

[formerlyofCtown]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

It does, but for the majority of Barry’s career that line was substantially better than our Incognito and Wood led O-line that Shady thrives behind. Not to mention that Herman Moore was an all pro WR keeping the safeties honest with help from guys like Perriman. 

 

I’m not saying that Barry wasn’t the GOAT... Just that comparing last seasons Bills team to a Lions squad that was routinely in the playoff hunt and had a minimum of 6 probowlers (2all pro) is disingenuous. Their biggest flaw was facing Favre and Reggie White twice a year.... A Packers team that held Sanders to negative yardage in the playoffs and won the game by carrying Moore out of bounds after a clutch catch. 

I disagree strongly.  Our Cogs and Wood lines were very good.  Cogs played at an AP level.  The line was probably an exageration.

As a unit the Lions Olines never impressed me.  I believe that is one of the reasons their teams sucked.

Edited March 29, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[formerlyofCtown]

52 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I get the Jim Brown votes.  But after watching OJ play, I don't get any other RB getting votes.  

 

Back in the 1970s, teams ran to establish the passing game.  RBs were the kings of football.  Folks didn't talk about "franchise QBs" in those days.  Back then, you needed a guy to tote the ball.  And you needed a defense to stop the other team from running.

 

The Bills didn't have a good D in '73.  Fergy was still raw as a QB.  We had one weapon:  OJ.  If opponents could stop OJ, they won.   But they couldn't stop OJ.

 

Usually the winner of the rushing title rushes for 50 or 100 yards more than his nearest competitor over the course of a season.  That year, OJ outrushed the next best back by nearly 900 yards.  He wasn't simply the best RB that year.  He was at another level.  He was multiple levels above other backs.

Thats a very good point.  His 2000 in 14 always jumps out at me because very few backs have done that and he did it in two less games.  This debate is always a tough one because there were a lot more truely great RBs than QBs.  When ever this debate pops up Im always on the verge of changing my mind on it.  ED, Allen, OJ, Sanders, Brown, Sweatness, Walker

Edited March 29, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[metzelaars_lives]

8 hours ago, mannc said:

I’m absolutely amazed that on a Bills board, OJ Simpson is left off anyone’s list.  In his prime, which admittedly was too short, there was never anyone better, before or since.  (OK, I never saw Jim Brown play.). OJ had it all—sprinter’s speed on a 215 pound frame, incredible balance and vision, and he was an excellent receiver, too.  He made it all look effortless.  It’s too bad his first three years in Buffalo were wasted playing for coaches who were too stupid to know what they had.

 

Next to OJ, Barry Sanders was just a gadget back—fun to watch, but that’s it.  And of course he never won squat.

Fine, add OJ to the list.  You still can’t say he was definitively the best.  And also, what did he win?  At least Sanders made it to an NFC Championship game.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Le’Veon  Bell and it’s not even close. 

[thenorthremembers]

Barry Sanders was the best I ever saw play.  But when you look back at what Jim Brown did in both the running and receiving game, in addition to how many times he scored in an era where scoring wasn't incredibly high I think you have to give him the nod as the GOAT.

 

Top Five:

Jim Brown

Barry Sanders

Walter Payton

Marshall Faulk

LaDainian Tomlinson

 

Saw Tomlinson live a few times, man could he get the corner in an era of faster linebackers.  He was a real joy to watch. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Such a challenging question with many different ways to answer.

 

1. Power and production : Brown and Bettis

2. Power and Speed : Simpson and Dickerson

3. Elusiveness: Sanders

4. Longevity : Smith, Martin

5. Multipurpose: Thomas, Tomlinson, Faulk

 

Best of all, Jim Brown. He would dominate in any era

Edited March 29, 2019 by Ethan in Portland

[Gugny]

My vote is for Barry Sanders.

 

2. Walter Payton

3. Jim Brown

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Shaw, the biggest argument against Brown is the era. When you consider a guy like Peterson you have to wonder what his stats would look like if he’d have played against the smaller and less athletic guys in the 50’s through 60’s NFL. As a result you have to have this argument defined by era. Maybe construct a “lineage” that starts with Jim Thorpe and goes up to Adrian Peterson. ?‍♂️

Thanks.   I'm amused that I never thought of it that way.  I try in my mind to imagine Brown playing in a later era, and he'd do great, I'm sure.  But I've never really tried to imagine later greats in an earlier era.  

 

Peterson is a great example.   I think he would have been a monster in the 50s and 60s.   He is like Brown in that he has an amazing combination of speed, power and elusiveness.  Bo Jackson translated back to that era also would have thrived.   And Simpson. with perhaps the best speed of the group and only slightly less power.  

 

Even I'm not old enough to have seen Thorpe, but I think he dominated because of his size compared to the rest of the league.  I know people say that about Brown, too, but in Brown's era there were 300 pound defensive linemen (not as many, granted, but they were there).  And in Brown's era there were other 230 pound running backs, but they couldn't do what Brown did.  

 

I like K-9's comment.  It is a futile discussion, but that doesn't mean it isn't fun.   His conclusion is correct - there are several guys who deserve a seat at the table, and it's a round table.   It's true.  The guys I'd invite to the table are Brown, Simpson, Jackson, Sanders, Campbell.  Maybe Dickerson and Sayers.  For some reason, my emotional response always leaves Peterson out, but my brain tells me he probably needs a seat.   If, using your test - how would he do if he played in Brown's era, those guys all would have been devastating weapons.   Sayers DID play in that era and WAS spectacularly good, and Simpson came shortly after.  

 

One thing about Brown is clear:  he taught the NFL the value of a truly elite running back.  Brown went 8th in the NFL draft. Only one year later, seven teams were wondering what they were thinking.   Simpson, DIckerson, Sanders, Campbell all went right up near the top of the draft.  And that's why the Giants took Barkley where they did.  When there's a guy in the draft who looks like he deserves to sit at that round table, you gotta take him.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Such a challenging question with many different ways to answer.

 

1. Power and production : Brown and Bettis

2. Power and Speed : Simpson and Dickerson

3. Elusiveness: Sanders

4. Longevity : Smith, Martin

5. Multipurpose: Thomas, Tomlinson, Faulk

 

Best of all, Jim Brown. He would dominate in any era

 

...good assessment and nicely done bud.....

[BillsFan1988]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Junction said:

The only real argument against Sanders is all the negative runs. People definitely recall the highlights, but what the don’t recall are the 3-4 carries before the 50 yard touchdown. He’d average 5 yards a game, but he had a penchant for negative yardage which was often caused by impatience and a desire to hit home runs. It’s why he often got pulled in short yardage situations and the red zone. Of course people also forget how good a lot of those 90’s defenses were. 

Yea I remember alot of the negative plays.  But he also took what the defense was giving him alot of the time also but what u have to remember is the 9 man boxes he was seeing .

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Such a challenging question with many different ways to answer.

 

1. Power and production : Brown and Bettis

2. Power and Speed : Simpson and Dickerson

3. Elusiveness: Sanders

4. Longevity : Smith, Martin

5. Multipurpose: Thomas, Tomlinson, Faulk

 

Best of all, Jim Brown. He would dominate in any era

It's funny, because it's an endless discussion.  

 

To you I'd say the reason it's Brown is that he needs to be in the speed category as well.  He was the fastest man in the league.

 

And I have OJ way up on my list because he belongs in the elusiveness category with Sanders (although they were elusive in different ways) and in the multipurpose category, as well (although because of the era the Bills didn't throw to him as much as some of the more modern backs).   

 

And to thenorthremember, all I can say is there is no way I put Tomlinson in the top five and leave OJ out.  Tomlinson was great, but his best days were OJ's average days.                                                               

6 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

Yea I remember alot of the negative plays.  But he also took what the defense was giving him alot of the time also but what u have to remember is the 9 man boxes he was seeing .

And that's one of the things that makes the discussion hopeless.   It's a team game, and any skill player's performance is a function of not only his ability, but all sorts of things both his teammates and his opponents are doing.  Brown and Simpson and Sanders all had good offensive lines, and they all faced defenses stacked to stop them.  For sure, some of them played in better total circumstances than some others, but it's impossible to determine that and factor it into the discussion.  

[BuffaloBill]

24 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Such a challenging question with many different ways to answer.

 

1. Power and production : Brown and Bettis

2. Power and Speed : Simpson and Dickerson

3. Elusiveness: Sanders

4. Longevity : Smith, Martin

5. Multipurpose: Thomas, Tomlinson, Faulk

 

Best of all, Jim Brown. He would dominate in any era

 

 

This is an interesting way to look at the question as it gets individuals in the discussion who belong on the list but are not necessarily easily identified.  Thomas is a great back but he’s great because of his combination of running and catching skills.  

 

Bo Jackson, had he stayed healthy, would have made your pores and production category easily.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Peterson and Tomlinson were both pretty damn good in the last 20 years.  Last 2 RBs to win league MVP, the others in the 2000s were Faulk and Alexander - who really just had a short prime.

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by dneveu

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

This is an interesting way to look at the question as it gets individuals in the discussion who belong on the list but are not necessarily easily identified.  Thomas is a great back but he’s great because of his combination of running and catching skills.  

 

Bo Jackson, had he stayed healthy, would have made your pores and production category easily.

Agree on Jackson. 

I never thought that much of  Curtis Martin during his playing days but when all is said and done, he produced a ton.

Campbell, Peterson, Sayers could all be on that list too.

I truly hope Shady rebounds behind a rebuilt OL and the Bills extend him. I believe he is still great but I understand why folks think he may be washed up.

[Gugny]

32 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Such a challenging question with many different ways to answer.

 

1. Power and production : Brown and Bettis

2. Power and Speed : Simpson and Dickerson

3. Elusiveness: Sanders

4. Longevity : Smith, Martin

5. Multipurpose: Thomas, Tomlinson, Faulk

 

Best of all, Jim Brown. He would dominate in any era

 

Great list.  But when I think of power and production, Earl Campbell is the first one who comes to my mind.  Dude was a beast.

[Dablitzkrieg]

I guess the question would be how do you define "best"?  Runner, power, blocker, catching, speed?  

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Great list.  But when I think of power and production, Earl Campbell is the first one who comes to my mind.  Dude was a beast.

Yes, Campbell instead of Bettis for sure.  

This discussion is repeated on message boards over and over, all over the country.

 

You know what discussion DOESN'T appear nearly so often?   Best RECEIVER of all time.   That's a very short discussion.  

[BillsFan1988]

23 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It's funny, because it's an endless discussion.  

 

To you I'd say the reason it's Brown is that he needs to be in the speed category as well.  He was the fastest man in the league.

 

And I have OJ way up on my list because he belongs in the elusiveness category with Sanders (although they were elusive in different ways) and in the multipurpose category, as well (although because of the era the Bills didn't throw to him as much as some of the more modern backs).   

 

And to thenorthremember, all I can say is there is no way I put Tomlinson in the top five and leave OJ out.  Tomlinson was great, but his best days were OJ's average days.                                                               

And that's one of the things that makes the discussion hopeless.   It's a team game, and any skill player's performance is a function of not only his ability, but all sorts of things both his teammates and his opponents are doing.  Brown and Simpson and Sanders all had good offensive lines, and they all faced defenses stacked to stop them.  For sure, some of them played in better total circumstances than some others, but it's impossible to determine that and factor it into the discussion.  

These comps are definitely like splitting hairs . It's all about preference. I didn't watch OJ or JB live i watched them on highlight videos and they were Supreme talents. Barry on the other hand I watched his career closely and he was the best by far that I ever seen.  I wish he would of took down the record he had a chance for 20,000 yds that would have been unbreakable especially with the way RBS are used today in RBBCs.

Edited March 29, 2019 by BillsFan1988

[Wsam4031]

Kenneth Davis