bbb Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 7:37 PM, OldTimer1960 said: Watching the NFL for 50 years, in my opinion: 1. Barry Sanders - unequivocally the best that I've ever seen 2. Earl Campbell- nobody could tackle this beast and he was very fast as well. 3. OJ Simpson - simply unstoppable on a one dimensional team (no passing game) Those are the three I always say. I didn't see Brown, but these did things that I've never seen anybody else do.
SouthNYfan Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, VW82 said: I don't know about greatest RB ever but I will say this kid in NYG looks like the greatest RB prospect ever. Barkley can do it all. He's like Marshall Faulk except he's bigger and can run you over in between the tackles. It's nuts. My favorite runner was always Barry Sanders. Human highlight reel. Jim Brown was before my time but clearly he needs to be in any GOAT discussion. He's absurd
The Senator Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 For me, Jim Brown. Back when I was knee-high to a grasshopper, had a GI Joe wih his uniform. .
Tcali Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 14 hours ago, Juror#8 said: I’m convinced that anyone who doesn’t answer “Barry Sanders” never watched the man play. Sanders was a transcendent talent. While Jim Brown ran over people and relied on his physicality, Sanders was vision, improvisation, speed, elusiveness, and anticipation. Its like a Mingus jazz composition, all these parts coming together to make something amazingly balanced. Sayers had a handful of those same qualities - maybe even one or two of them equally as good - just not all the qualities as good at the same time. Another thing I love about Barry Sanders, he’s probably the only person on any list who would rank himself last amongst any names in a discussion about whose the best. Great story in an old article that I read years ago about him going to the same McDonalds after a home game and getting his meal. Sitting in the McDs enjoying his meal and signing a few autographs. And neighbors would tell stories about how he was so regular down to mowing his own lawn. Thats good rearing. It sounds silly to mention that as commendable but in today’s world of pampered athletes, that’s almost unheard of. 98% of people who watched Barry sanders play will say that Jim Brown was the better running back. Not that they dont think Barry was amazing.....but come on man..
Tcali Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 14 hours ago, Juror#8 said: Bo was more elusive and in my opinion had better lateral quickness than Jim Brown. Bo just has too small a sample size - unless you factor in his Hb1 runs in Techmo Bowl. you are truly nuts if you think that bo jackson was anywhere near as good as Jim Brown.thats laughable.
row_33 Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Tcali said: you are truly nuts if you think that bo jackson was anywhere near as good as Jim Brown.thats laughable. Bo was hurt too much, at college and the pros a major shame
Tcali Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 25 minutes ago, row_33 said: Bo was hurt too much, at college and the pros a major shame And he didnt do too much behind the line. once he got past the line and had a free lane he was gone. But part of the discussion when discussing the greats is that the best were unstoppable.jackson could be made a non-factor by bottling up the line. Not with Brown .Brown couldnt really be stopped by any method.With OJ you could bottle up the line but he could still do magic things to break open.Bo Jackson was powerful and incredibly fast but his RB abilities were not in the very top echelon.
Tcali Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) Games Played and Rushing Year Team GP TC Yds Avg TD Long 1956 HAM 130 832 6.4 3 70 1957 HAM 204 958 4.7 7 57 1958 SASK 235 1254 5.3 5 73 1959 TOR 87 496 5.7 4 69 1960 TOR 14 88 662 7.5 6 74 1961 TOR 12 105 709 6.8 3 67 Cookie.... AND he started at Linebacker where he was an allstar..and returned kicks and kicked PATs and FGs and covered on STs. Edited March 31, 2019 by Tcali
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 For running ability, its Bo Jackson. For career its emmit Smith. For roadgrader , Mike Alstott.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 12 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I want to jump in here. I haven't been on much and just came back to read what's being said. I'll get to that in a minute. First, I guess I've got to apologize. I've upset some people and certainly did not intend to. I thought we were just having a football conversation. I talk football the way I do because that's my manner. I think I know what I'm talking about, but I'm also quick to say that I don't know anything compared to what the coaches and gms know. I DO think I'm right about what I say, as do you all of you. I'm sorry that the way I say it makes you think I think I'm some sort of guru. I know I'm not. Truly sorry. Second, I think this is a pretty high level football conversation going on here. Post after post has really good and interesting thoughts. I gotta say that, altho some may think it's politically incorrect, mannc probably is correct that Brown stood out because he was playing in a league that didn't permit many blacks to play. Doesn't establish what Brown might or might not have done in more modern football, but it certainly supports the notion that the modern players actually DO get better, and that rising tide of better players lifts the stars to ever greater levels. Third, I thought the discussion about Jordan and Lebron, whoever did it, was very interesting. Your brain has a way to cement in your head that the heroes of YOUR day are the GOAT, bar none, whatever happens. But year after year as you watch Lebron do what he does, you start questioning your memory, and, it's true, you DO have the ability to watch video, a lot of video or both of them. And so, there's the additional problem in Brown vs. Sanders, of many people being too young to have memories and pretty much no video to go back to. So the Sanders crowd brain is saying "all we've seen is some video of Brown; we SAW Sanders. And the old timers are saying "well, we SAW them both and let me tell you" when in fact maybe our brains have been denying Sanders greatness because we want it to be OUR guy. No one's perspective is the correct perspective, it's just a perspective. Oh, and speaking of perspective, someone said something like "the oldtimers talk like they'd seen every game Brown played live." I thought that was amusing, because it's not like he had any real way to know, but some of us actually probably did see live, on television, 80% of the games he ever played, maybe 90%, maybe even 100%. If you were growing up in Buffalo in the 50s, you were either a Browns kid or a Giants kid. (Bills didn't exist.) Browns were on every week on WBEN and Giants were on every week on WGR. Even when they played each other, they were on both stations, same video, different announcers. In short, a lot of the oldtimers here watched the Browns EVERY week, just like your kids watch the Bills now. So, yeah it IS like we saw every game of Browns career. Doesn't mean I'm right, I know, but when we were kids we watched Jim Brown the way kids watched Thurman or Cribbs, pick your generation. Finally, i think there's another perspective here. That's the "values" perspective. Chamberlain was amazing, but I bought the Celtics' view that Russell was GOAT he made his team a winner. So what defines greatness, individual talent or productivity (and leadership) that brought championships? I think Sanders was the greatest in terms of visual greatness - if you had to pick one running back to watch, who would it be? Sanders, as I've said. If you had to pick based on contribution the team effort, because of individual greatness and play after play consistency, I'd pick Brown. Last play of the game, you need a touchdown, 2 yards from the goal line, who do you want? Brown, no question. Forty yards to the goal line, who do you want? Some will say Sanders, I'll say pick 'em. Brown had exceptional big-play capability. Thanks for talking about this. And, again, apologies to anyone I've upset. You have no reason to apologize, I don’t think you upset anyone or said anything out of line. You just shared your thoughts, nothing wrong with that and all were fair points. GoBills 1
PlayoffsPlease Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 3:11 PM, Shaw66 said: Nobody except Brown. Nobody except Brown. You didn't say period. So it doesn't count.
Juror#8 Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 17 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I want to jump in here. I haven't been on much and just came back to read what's being said. I'll get to that in a minute. First, I guess I've got to apologize. I've upset some people and certainly did not intend to. I thought we were just having a football conversation. I talk football the way I do because that's my manner. I think I know what I'm talking about, but I'm also quick to say that I don't know anything compared to what the coaches and gms know. I DO think I'm right about what I say, as do you all of you. I'm sorry that the way I say it makes you think I think I'm some sort of guru. I know I'm not. Truly sorry. Second, I think this is a pretty high level football conversation going on here. Post after post has really good and interesting thoughts. I gotta say that, altho some may think it's politically incorrect, mannc probably is correct that Brown stood out because he was playing in a league that didn't permit many blacks to play. Doesn't establish what Brown might or might not have done in more modern football, but it certainly supports the notion that the modern players actually DO get better, and that rising tide of better players lifts the stars to ever greater levels. Third, I thought the discussion about Jordan and Lebron, whoever did it, was very interesting. Your brain has a way to cement in your head that the heroes of YOUR day are the GOAT, bar none, whatever happens. But year after year as you watch Lebron do what he does, you start questioning your memory, and, it's true, you DO have the ability to watch video, a lot of video or both of them. And so, there's the additional problem in Brown vs. Sanders, of many people being too young to have memories and pretty much no video to go back to. So the Sanders crowd brain is saying "all we've seen is some video of Brown; we SAW Sanders. And the old timers are saying "well, we SAW them both and let me tell you" when in fact maybe our brains have been denying Sanders greatness because we want it to be OUR guy. No one's perspective is the correct perspective, it's just a perspective. Oh, and speaking of perspective, someone said something like "the oldtimers talk like they'd seen every game Brown played live." I thought that was amusing, because it's not like he had any real way to know, but some of us actually probably did see live, on television, 80% of the games he ever played, maybe 90%, maybe even 100%. If you were growing up in Buffalo in the 50s, you were either a Browns kid or a Giants kid. (Bills didn't exist.) Browns were on every week on WBEN and Giants were on every week on WGR. Even when they played each other, they were on both stations, same video, different announcers. In short, a lot of the oldtimers here watched the Browns EVERY week, just like your kids watch the Bills now. So, yeah it IS like we saw every game of Browns career. Doesn't mean I'm right, I know, but when we were kids we watched Jim Brown the way kids watched Thurman or Cribbs, pick your generation. Finally, i think there's another perspective here. That's the "values" perspective. Chamberlain was amazing, but I bought the Celtics' view that Russell was GOAT he made his team a winner. So what defines greatness, individual talent or productivity (and leadership) that brought championships? I think Sanders was the greatest in terms of visual greatness - if you had to pick one running back to watch, who would it be? Sanders, as I've said. If you had to pick based on contribution the team effort, because of individual greatness and play after play consistency, I'd pick Brown. Last play of the game, you need a touchdown, 2 yards from the goal line, who do you want? Brown, no question. Forty yards to the goal line, who do you want? Some will say Sanders, I'll say pick 'em. Brown had exceptional big-play capability. Thanks for talking about this. And, again, apologies to anyone I've upset. No worries and appreciate the words. Miscommunications are one of the highlights of passionate message board posting. Always enjoyed your contributions on bbmb. I think there’s always situational circumstances when one player might be the better option based on style, etc. For instance, I’m taking Natrone Means, Christian Okoye, William Perry, or Mike Alstott in that “need 2 yards for the Super Bowl” scenario. I still wouldn't say any of them are even near Barry’s echelon. And therein lay my point. Barry, I think, is the best back when you look at everything you would want a back to do consistently in view of today’s nfl. His skill set is still translatable and I still think he’d be dominant 20 years after he retired. He dominated as a rusher with no supporting cast and in an era when the Nfl was loose on policing performance enhancing drugs. If I’m starting an nfl team today and I have a 20 year old Jim Brown and a 20 year old Barry Sanders in front of me, I’m taking Barry. Some would take Brown, and that’s ok too. Lastly, if it’s 4th and 2 at the goal line with 8 seconds left and for the Super Bowl, I think I’m throwing a back corner fade to Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson.
Mr. WEO Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 7:46 PM, KD in CA said: This guy.... You mean this guy:
Juror#8 Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 10 hours ago, Tcali said: 98% of people who watched Barry sanders play will say that Jim Brown was the better running back. Not that they dont think Barry was amazing.....but come on man.. That math doesn’t even hold up in the small sample size of this thread. Lol. Barry was the better back and the greatest of all time. But it’s a good discussion with valid points on both sides. 2
PlayoffsPlease Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Juror#8 said: That math doesn’t even hold up in the small sample size of this thread. Lol. Barry was the better back and the greatest of all time. But it’s a good discussion with valid points on both sides. saying it over and over again does not make it true. Sanders was not the best ever.
row_33 Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: saying it over and over again does not make it true. Sanders was not the best ever. i don't see anyone coming forward the next 25 years to come close to the former greats
Tcali Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: i don't see anyone coming forward the next 25 years to come close to the former greats not that the talent isnt out there....but the RB position has changed.Used to be the best athlete on the team was the running back...from junior leagues on.You built the team around them. Now the position isnt stressed as much. In those days Tyrod would have been a running back----and a great one.Michael Vick woulda been a great RB. Tebow woulda been a very good FB. Teams would rather get an almost as good RB and spend the real money on other positions.
DuckyBoys Posted March 31, 2019 Posted March 31, 2019 Barry Sanders, not old enough to have seen Jim Brown play but he's the only other one in the conversation. Ironic that both walked away from football while still on top and at near their peak
Recommended Posts