Best ever NFL running back

[Alphadawg7]

33 minutes ago, hemma said:

 

You sound like you know lots of stuff, so being old and hoping to wallow in nostalgia on a lazy Saturday afternoon I decided to watch some video of the 11/1/1959 game between the Browns and the Colts.  Jim ran for over 170 in that game, but I must be doing something stupid Interweb wrong, cuz I can’t find it!

 

I know that video is available because ‘Video exists’.  Could you post the URL to that thing?

 

This is a bit funny to me.  Have you watched every single full game of Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers, and Walter Paytons career?  I mean those are generally the top 4 guys mentioned as the GOAT.  If not, then whats your point here?  This comment has no real merit to what his point was about there being plenty of video available of past era players.

 

13 minutes ago, mannc said:

I think the most important difference between the Jim Brown era and the modern NFL is that the quality of play in the league was diminished at that time by racial segregation. As a result of that segregation, fewer black athletes got the opportunity to play college (and subsequently pro) football.  As segregation faded, more black athletes got the opportunity to play and the overall quality of play improved.  Hence, as great as Jim Brown was, it’s probably true that he wouldn’t dominate the same way in today’s NFL, where the best of the best play, regardless of race.

 

Thats a very good point and post, something that had not been mentioned yet but was very relevant.  This is also lent itself to guys like Wilt Chamberlains career too.  Nicely done

Edited March 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[hemma]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This is a bit funny to me.  Have you watched every single full game of Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers, and Walter Paytons career?  I mean those are generally the top 4 guys mentioned as the GOAT.  If not, then whats your point here?  This comment has no real merit to what his point was about there being plenty of video available of past era players.

 

There is very little video of players or games in the late 50s or early 60s.  

That is my point.

[Alphadawg7]

29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Speaks to the concept of a team sport.

 

Beenna lot of discussion about us old farts comparing generations.  Hard to do with a single player in a team sport.  But for an individual one?  If Snead or Nelson or Hogan played with the clubs and balls of today they might make Tiger look like just another guy on tour.

 

Yeah, golf has definitely benefitted from equipment science and development.  Ive always loved Tiger, but Nicklaus was always the GOAT to me.  I never got to really see the guys older than Nicklaus, but I think had he had the same tools modern guys have now, he would have been even more dominate

 

5 minutes ago, hemma said:

 

There is very little video of players or games in the late 50s or early 60s.  

That is my point.

 

There is more types of video than “game replays”.  Brown has many documentaries with all kinds of footage, highlight reels and full games available. Is the more of guys from the modern era, sure, but it’s not like anyone is going to watch every play of their careers. 

 

There is more than enough to make a comparison opinion of all the RBs in this discussion.  That was his point.  

Edited March 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[SouthNYfan]

11 minutes ago, hemma said:

 

There is very little video of players or games in the late 50s or early 60s.  

That is my point.

 

Yeah there's no video of brown.

None.

Very little.

 

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, golf has definitely benefitted from equipment science and development.  Ive always loved Tiger, but Nicklaus was always the GOAT to me.  I never got to really see the guys older than Nicklaus, but I think had he had the same tools modern guys have now, he would have been even more dominate

 

 

There is more types of video than “game replays”.  Brown has many documentaries with all kinds of footage, highlight reels and full games available. Is the more of guys from the modern era, sure, but it’s not like anyone is going to watch every play of their careers. 

 

There is more than enough to make a comparison opinion of all the RBs in this discussion.  That was his point.  

 

Thanks.

[hemma]

Given that it is an opinion, whoever one chooses to be best is certainly right in their own mind.

 

Regardless of anyone's opinion, there is very little film out there from the pre-Superbowl era.  I consider SI as a valid proof source.

 

"On this day, Belichick is at first hesitant to break down Brown’s game. There is apparently no real game film of Brown in existence. The Browns have none. NFL Films has none. CBS, which broadcast NFL games during Brown’s career, was unable to provide game film when asked. There are highlight packages available on the Internet and also one fairly complete reel of the 1965 championship game, skillfully cobbled together from various sources. These highlights comprise most of the Brown canon. The rest is lost to time."

[SouthNYfan]

5 minutes ago, hemma said:

Given that it is an opinion, whoever one chooses to be best is certainly right in their own mind.

 

Regardless of anyone's opinion, there is very little film out there from the pre-Superbowl era.  I consider SI as a valid proof source.

 

"On this day, Belichick is at first hesitant to break down Brown’s game. There is apparently no real game film of Brown in existence. The Browns have none. NFL Films has none. CBS, which broadcast NFL games during Brown’s career, was unable to provide game film when asked. There are highlight packages available on the Internet and also one fairly complete reel of the 1965 championship game, skillfully cobbled together from various sources. These highlights comprise most of the Brown canon. The rest is lost to time."

 

Which would mean you are watching him through rose colored glasses if the only video available if him are highlights, you're only seeing the best he's doing.

[Shaw66]

I want to jump in here.  I haven't been on much and just came back to read what's being said.   I'll get to that in a minute.  

 

First, I guess I've got to apologize.   I've upset some people and certainly did not intend to.   I thought we were just having a football conversation.   I talk football the way I do because that's my manner.   I think I know what I'm talking about, but I'm also quick to say that I don't know anything compared to what the coaches and gms know.   I DO think I'm right about what I say, as do you all of you.  I'm sorry that the way I say it makes you think I think I'm some sort of guru.   I know I'm not.  Truly sorry.

 

Second, I think this is a pretty high level football conversation going on here.  Post after post has really good and interesting thoughts.  I gotta say that, altho some may think it's politically incorrect, mannc probably is correct that Brown stood out because he was playing in a league that didn't permit many blacks to play.  Doesn't establish what Brown might or might not have done in more modern football, but it certainly supports the notion that the modern players actually DO get better, and that rising tide of better players lifts the stars to ever greater levels.  

 

Third, I thought the discussion about Jordan and Lebron, whoever did it, was very interesting.   Your brain has a way to cement in your head that the heroes of YOUR day are the GOAT, bar none, whatever happens.   But year after year as you watch Lebron do what he does, you start questioning your memory, and, it's true, you DO have the ability to watch video, a lot of video or both of them.   And so, there's the additional problem in Brown vs. Sanders, of many people being too young to have memories and pretty much no video to go back to.   So the Sanders crowd brain is saying "all we've seen is some video of Brown; we SAW Sanders.   And the old timers are saying "well, we SAW them both and let me tell you" when in fact maybe our brains have been denying Sanders greatness because we want it to be OUR guy.    No one's perspective is the correct perspective, it's just a perspective.

 

Oh, and speaking of perspective, someone said something like "the oldtimers talk like they'd seen every game Brown played live."  I thought that was amusing, because it's not like he had any real way to know, but some of us actually probably did see live, on television, 80% of the games he ever played, maybe 90%, maybe even 100%.  If you were growing up in Buffalo in the 50s, you were either a Browns kid or a Giants kid.  (Bills didn't exist.)  Browns were on every week on WBEN and Giants were on every week on WGR.  Even when they played each other, they were on both stations, same video, different announcers.   In short, a lot of the oldtimers here watched the Browns EVERY week, just like your kids watch the Bills now.   So, yeah it IS like we saw every game of Browns career.  Doesn't mean I'm right, I know, but when we were kids we watched Jim Brown the way kids watched Thurman or Cribbs, pick your generation.  

 

Finally, i think there's another perspective here.  That's the "values" perspective. Chamberlain was amazing, but I bought the Celtics' view that Russell was GOAT he made his team a winner.  So what defines greatness, individual talent or productivity (and leadership) that brought championships?   I think Sanders was the greatest in terms of visual greatness - if you had to pick one running back to watch, who would it be?  Sanders, as I've said.  If you had to pick based on contribution the team effort, because of individual greatness and play after play consistency, I'd pick Brown.  Last play of the game, you need a touchdown, 2 yards from the goal line, who do you want?  Brown, no question.  Forty yards to the goal line, who do you want?  Some will say Sanders, I'll say pick 'em.  Brown had exceptional big-play capability.  

 

Thanks for talking about this.   

 

And, again, apologies to anyone I've upset.  

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I want to jump in here.  I haven't been on much and just came back to read what's being said.   I'll get to that in a minute.  

 

First, I guess I've got to apologize.   I've upset some people and certainly did not intend to.   I thought we were just having a football conversation.   I talk football the way I do because that's my manner.   I think I know what I'm talking about, but I'm also quick to say that I don't know anything compared to what the coaches and gms know.   I DO think I'm right about what I say, as do you all of you.  I'm sorry that the way I say it makes you think I think I'm some sort of guru.   I know I'm not.  Truly sorry.

 

Second, I think this is a pretty high level football conversation going on here.  Post after post has really good and interesting thoughts.  I gotta say that, altho some may think it's politically incorrect, mannc probably is correct that Brown stood out because he was playing in a league that didn't permit many blacks to play.  Doesn't establish what Brown might or might not have done in more modern football, but it certainly supports the notion that the modern players actually DO get better, and that rising tide of better players lifts the stars to ever greater levels.  

 

Third, I thought the discussion about Jordan and Lebron, whoever did it, was very interesting.   Your brain has a way to cement in your head that the heroes of YOUR day are the GOAT, bar none, whatever happens.   But year after year as you watch Lebron do what he does, you start questioning your memory, and, it's true, you DO have the ability to watch video, a lot of video or both of them.   And so, there's the additional problem in Brown vs. Sanders, of many people being too young to have memories and pretty much no video to go back to.   So the Sanders crowd brain is saying "all we've seen is some video of Brown; we SAW Sanders.   And the old timers are saying "well, we SAW them both and let me tell you" when in fact maybe our brains have been denying Sanders greatness because we want it to be OUR guy.    No one's perspective is the correct perspective, it's just a perspective.

 

Oh, and speaking of perspective, someone said something like "the oldtimers talk like they'd seen every game Brown played live."  I thought that was amusing, because it's not like he had any real way to know, but some of us actually probably did see live, on television, 80% of the games he ever played, maybe 90%, maybe even 100%.  If you were growing up in Buffalo in the 50s, you were either a Browns kid or a Giants kid.  (Bills didn't exist.)  Browns were on every week on WBEN and Giants were on every week on WGR.  Even when they played each other, they were on both stations, same video, different announcers.   In short, a lot of the oldtimers here watched the Browns EVERY week, just like your kids watch the Bills now.   So, yeah it IS like we saw every game of Browns career.  Doesn't mean I'm right, I know, but when we were kids we watched Jim Brown the way kids watched Thurman or Cribbs, pick your generation.  

 

Finally, i think there's another perspective here.  That's the "values" perspective. Chamberlain was amazing, but I bought the Celtics' view that Russell was GOAT he made his team a winner.  So what defines greatness, individual talent or productivity (and leadership) that brought championships?   I think Sanders was the greatest in terms of visual greatness - if you had to pick one running back to watch, who would it be?  Sanders, as I've said.  If you had to pick based on contribution the team effort, because of individual greatness and play after play consistency, I'd pick Brown.  Last play of the game, you need a touchdown, 2 yards from the goal line, who do you want?  Brown, no question.  Forty yards to the goal line, who do you want?  Some will say Sanders, I'll say pick 'em.  Brown had exceptional big-play capability.  

 

Thanks for talking about this.   

 

And, again, apologies to anyone I've upset.  

 

Good points Shaw.

Ironically I was the one talking about Jordan vs LeBron and what's cemented from being a kid vs going back and watching, and I was also the one talking about "old timers" watching haha.

Maybe you did watch all browns games as a kid, like I did with Jordan in my comparison.

Since the videos of brown don't exist, you can't go back and scrutinize him vs Sanders like I can with LeBron vs Jordan.

So there's another wrinkle in our discussion.

Then there's things like schemes, which comes into play with guys like Terrell Davis, who played for a Denver team that cranked out 1k yard rbs like Chevrolet cranked out crappy cars in the 90s.

(Similar to Brady in the BB system in the eyes of many)

It's a very deep and nuanced discussion in which I think we are splitting hairs at the end of the day.

Good talks though, sorry if I was a bit aggressive and condescending to you old farts as well.

[Chandler#81]

Proofreading can be your friend. It’s acually possible to say twice as much with half the words.

[longtimebillsfan]

On 3/28/2019 at 4:37 PM, OldTimer1960 said:

Watching the NFL for 50 years, in my opinion:

1. Barry Sanders - unequivocally the best that I've ever seen

2. Earl Campbell- nobody could tackle this beast and he was very fast as well.

3. OJ Simpson - simply unstoppable on a one dimensional team (no passing game)

 

I am from your era.  I am surprised gale Sayers had not been mentioned.  He had a short career, but he and berry Sanders had very similar styles.  I am not saying he was the best. But he could be in the top 7.

[GoBills808]

 

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I would challenge you here.  When you say Sanders had stuff no one else could match, what parts?  Sayers was his equal in terms of elusiveness.  OJ was at minimum his equal in terms of speed, hitting a hole and taking off.  Dorset was also a guy not mentioned a lot here but he had acceleration like few others.  Power?  Campbell, Czonka maybe, hell even Lynch were great.

 

Now, you put them all together there are very, very few guys that had it all.  You have Sanders 1 and Brown  2 and I have them flip flopped.  Maybe for this simple reason:  if I had 3rd and 3 and I could pick one guy to make the yards or die a terrible death, has to be Brown.  I saw Sanders take too many losses.  Rarely did Brown get stopped behind the line.  Fun stuff to discuss.

 

That's a very strange methodology for determining who the better running back is, never mind the fact that Sanders averaged 5 ypc. He took a lot of losses because his quarterback was Rodney Peete and was running against 8 man fronts.

And just because 'you saw them play'...that gets zero points from me. Negative even. There's nothing more unreliable than eyewitness testimony from half a century ago. 

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Good points Shaw.

Ironically I was the one talking about Jordan vs LeBron and what's cemented from being a kid vs going back and watching, and I was also the one talking about "old timers" watching haha.

Maybe you did watch all browns games as a kid, like I did with Jordan in my comparison.

Since the videos of brown don't exist, you can't go back and scrutinize him vs Sanders like I can with LeBron vs Jordan.

So there's another wrinkle in our discussion.

Then there's things like schemes, which comes into play with guys like Terrell Davis, who played for a Denver team that cranked out 1k yard rbs like Chevrolet cranked out crappy cars in the 90s.

(Similar to Brady in the BB system in the eyes of many)

It's a very deep and nuanced discussion in which I think we are splitting hairs at the end of the day.

Good talks though, sorry if I was a bit aggressive and condescending to you old farts as well.

No apologies necessary, for me, anyway. 

 

Your point about schemes is also interesting to me in a different context near and dear to many Bills fans.   Who's the best running back in BILLS history?   Man, I can recite that debate from memory.   What brings me to the conclusion that it's Simpson is in my mind I can put Simpson on the field with Kelly, Reed, Lofton and Beebe, and what I see is an offense  that would have won some Super Bowls.  Simpson would have been BETTER in the K-gun than he was in the offense the Bills ran back then.   Why?  Because the Bills would have thrown to him more, so he would have gotten the ball more in open space.  In open space, only Sanders and Sayers regularly did what Simpson could do.  So, yeah, I agree completely that scheme is important. 

 

In the SI article, Belichick said the modern runners run in a much more run friendly scheme.  They get to line up deeper in the backfield, which Belichick says is a big advantage.  Still, if you ask me how Sanders would do in the Browns 1958 run offense, I don't know.  And I don't exactly how Brown would have done in Sanders offense, either. 

 

And beyond THAT, Brown played for the Bill Belichick of the era, and Sanders played for, I don't, but it wasn't anyone who was winning championships.   Brown had a coach whose game planning was a week or a year ahead of the opponent.   We complain the the coaches misused Simpson so badly in his early years.  I mean, what were they thinking?  Brown, on the other hand, had a coach who when asked why he didn't give the ball more to Bobby Mitchell, a BIG, BIG open field threat, said "when you have a shotgun, why shoot a popgun?"

 

If you haven't read the SI article, read it, especially the Belichick section.  Belichick knows more about football than anyone, and he seems to be saying, from a coach's perspective, that there isn't any question Brown is the guy. 

 

It's impossible to prove anyone right.  What I like about the discussion as much as anything is that the discussion makes revisit memories of all those players we've seen, including just on video, and the amazing things they did and still do.  Remembering Brown and Sanders, watching a few clips here and there of Simpson and Campbell, it's fun.  It's why I dug up the Terence McGee video and posted it.   The discussion of Sayers made me think about kick returning and I hadn't see McGee's return for a few years.   So this discussion got me to watch that play again.  

 

Thanks for chatting.  

 

 

12 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I am from your era.  I am surprised gale Sayers had not been mentioned.  He had a short career, but he and berry Sanders had very similar styles.  I am not saying he was the best. But he could be in the top 7.

Sayers has jumped in and out of the conversation some.  I don't know about similar styles, but they are my all-time top 2 guys in the open field.  

[longtimebillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

No apologies necessary, for me, anyway. 

 

Your point about schemes is also interesting to me in a different context near and dear to many Bills fans.   Who's the best running back in BILLS history?   Man, I can recite that debate from memory.   What brings me to the conclusion that it's Simpson is in my mind I can put Simpson on the field with Kelly, Reed, Lofton and Beebe, and what I see is an offense  that would have won some Super Bowls.  Simpson would have been BETTER in the K-gun than he was in the offense the Bills ran back then.   Why?  Because the Bills would have thrown to him more, so he would have gotten the ball more in open space.  In open space, only Sanders and Sayers regularly did what Simpson could do.  So, yeah, I agree completely that scheme is important. 

 

In the SI article, Belichick said the modern runners run in a much more run friendly scheme.  They get to line up deeper in the backfield, which Belichick says is a big advantage.  Still, if you ask me how Sanders would do in the Browns 1958 run offense, I don't know.  And I don't exactly how Brown would have done in Sanders offense, either. 

 

And beyond THAT, Brown played for the Bill Belichick of the era, and Sanders played for, I don't, but it wasn't anyone who was winning championships.   Brown had a coach whose game planning was a week or a year ahead of the opponent.   We complain the the coaches misused Simpson so badly in his early years.  I mean, what were they thinking?  Brown, on the other hand, had a coach who when asked why he didn't give the ball more to Bobby Mitchell, a BIG, BIG open field threat, said "when you have a shotgun, why shoot a popgun?"

 

If you haven't read the SI article, read it, especially the Belichick section.  Belichick knows more about football than anyone, and he seems to be saying, from a coach's perspective, that there isn't any question Brown is the guy. 

 

It's impossible to prove anyone right.  What I like about the discussion as much as anything is that the discussion makes revisit memories of all those players we've seen, including just on video, and the amazing things they did and still do.  Remembering Brown and Sanders, watching a few clips here and there of Simpson and Campbell, it's fun.  It's why I dug up the Terence McGee video and posted it.   The discussion of Sayers made me think about kick returning and I hadn't see McGee's return for a few years.   So this discussion got me to watch that play again.  

 

Thanks for chatting.  

 

 

Sayers has jumped in and out of the conversation some.  I don't know about similar styles, but they are my all-time top 2 guys in the open field.  

I agree.  I also find it interesting that Emmitt Smith isn't getting a lot of mention.  He benefited from playing behind a superb oline for his entire career.

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

No apologies necessary, for me, anyway. 

 

Your point about schemes is also interesting to me in a different context near and dear to many Bills fans.   Who's the best running back in BILLS history?   Man, I can recite that debate from memory.   What brings me to the conclusion that it's Simpson is in my mind I can put Simpson on the field with Kelly, Reed, Lofton and Beebe, and what I see is an offense  that would have won some Super Bowls.  Simpson would have been BETTER in the K-gun than he was in the offense the Bills ran back then.   Why?  Because the Bills would have thrown to him more, so he would have gotten the ball more in open space.  In open space, only Sanders and Sayers regularly did what Simpson could do.  So, yeah, I agree completely that scheme is important. 

 

In the SI article, Belichick said the modern runners run in a much more run friendly scheme.  They get to line up deeper in the backfield, which Belichick says is a big advantage.  Still, if you ask me how Sanders would do in the Browns 1958 run offense, I don't know.  And I don't exactly how Brown would have done in Sanders offense, either. 

 

And beyond THAT, Brown played for the Bill Belichick of the era, and Sanders played for, I don't, but it wasn't anyone who was winning championships.   Brown had a coach whose game planning was a week or a year ahead of the opponent.   We complain the the coaches misused Simpson so badly in his early years.  I mean, what were they thinking?  Brown, on the other hand, had a coach who when asked why he didn't give the ball more to Bobby Mitchell, a BIG, BIG open field threat, said "when you have a shotgun, why shoot a popgun?"

 

If you haven't read the SI article, read it, especially the Belichick section.  Belichick knows more about football than anyone, and he seems to be saying, from a coach's perspective, that there isn't any question Brown is the guy. 

 

It's impossible to prove anyone right.  What I like about the discussion as much as anything is that the discussion makes revisit memories of all those players we've seen, including just on video, and the amazing things they did and still do.  Remembering Brown and Sanders, watching a few clips here and there of Simpson and Campbell, it's fun.  It's why I dug up the Terence McGee video and posted it.   The discussion of Sayers made me think about kick returning and I hadn't see McGee's return for a few years.   So this discussion got me to watch that play again.  

 

Thanks for chatting.  

 

 

 

Good stuff.

I'll have to dig up that BB article.

In regards to him liking brown though, let's also remember that he seems to prefer big, bruising running backs when he can get his hands on them.

 

 

LEAD BACK

2000 JR Redmond

2001 Antowain Smith

2002 Antowain Smith

2003 Antowain Smith

2004 Corey Dillon

2005 Corey Dillon

2006 Corey Dillon/Laurence Maroney

2007 Laurence Maroney

2008 Sammy Morris

2009 Laurence Maroney

2010 BenJarvus Green-Ellis

2011 BenJarvus Green-Ellis/Stevan Ridley

2012 Stevan Ridley

2013 Stevan Ridley/LeGarrette Blount

2014 Stevan Ridley/LeGarrette Blount/Jonas Gray

2015 LeGarrette Blount/Steven Jackson

2016 LeGarrette Blount

2017 Dion Lewis/Mike gillislee

2018 Sony Michel

 

 

Overall as the league shifts to spread offenses, he always makes sure to have a beast back there when he can.

I think that could be why he leans towards brown.

Even on poor plays he's probably going to get you 3 yards, whereas sanders, even with his 5.0 average, would get stuffed more often than a power back would, solely because of his cutback style.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Good stuff.

I'll have to dig up that BB article.

In regards to him liking brown though, let's also remember that he seems to prefer big, bruising running backs when he can get his hands on them.

 

 

LEAD BACK

2000 JR Redmond

2001 Antowain Smith

2002 Antowain Smith

2003 Antowain Smith

2004 Corey Dillon

2005 Corey Dillon

2006 Corey Dillon/Laurence Maroney

2007 Laurence Maroney

2008 Sammy Morris

2009 Laurence Maroney

2010 BenJarvus Green-Ellis

2011 BenJarvus Green-Ellis/Stevan Ridley

2012 Stevan Ridley

2013 Stevan Ridley/LeGarrette Blount

2014 Stevan Ridley/LeGarrette Blount/Jonas Gray

2015 LeGarrette Blount/Steven Jackson

2016 LeGarrette Blount

2017 Dion Lewis/Mike gillislee

2018 Sony Michel

 

 

Overall as the league shifts to spread offenses, he always makes sure to have a beast back there when he can.

I think that could be why he leans towards brown.

Even on poor plays he's probably going to get you 3 yards, whereas sanders, even with his 5.0 average, would get stuffed more often than a power back would, solely because of his cutback style.

Interesting.  I'm fascinated by Belichick.   I read half of the biography about him.   Got to the Patriots part of his life and I'd had enough.  

 

I think there are several basics in his philosophy.   In no particular order

 

no turnovers

do your job

study

take the easy play

be fundamentally sound tacklers

hit hard.

 

That last one is right in line with his preferences, so he may in fact have a bias for a guy like Brown.   Still, I'd tell you it's a coach's bias - he's telling you the player HE'D like to have.  This is the best coach probably in the history of football, whose interests are exactly in line with what his fans want - wins, and he's telling you he'd take Brown.   He wants to win, he could take Sanders if he wanted, he takes Brown.   That's a pretty powerful argument.    

 

Any way, there are no answers.  Thanks again for chatting. 

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

36 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

I am from your era.  I am surprised gale Sayers had not been mentioned.  He had a short career, but he and berry Sanders had very similar styles.  I am not saying he was the best. But he could be in the top 7.

You're right, I've only seen highlights of him but he was tremendous.  I forgot to include him.

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Interesting.  I'm fascinated by Belichick.   I read half of the biography about him.   Got to the Patriots part of his life and I'd had enough.  

 

I think there are several basics in his philosophy.   In no particular order

 

no turnovers

do your job

study

take the easy play

be fundamentally sound tacklers

hit hard.

 

That last one is right in line with his preferences, so he may in fact have a bias for a guy like Brown.   Still, I'd tell you it's a coach's bias - he's telling you the player HE'D like to have.  This is the best coach probably in the history of football, whose interests are exactly in line with what his fans want - wins, and he's telling you he'd take Brown.   He wants to win, he could take Sanders if he wanted, he takes Brown.   That's a pretty powerful argument.    

 

Any way, there are no answers.  Thanks again for chatting. 

 

 

 

All good points.

I think Sanders is a better back than brown, more versatile, more talented, but brown had a more consistent style.

If I'm building a championship team I would take the guy who is more consistent from a coaching perspective.

 

 

[T master]

WOW tough one to answer i loved watching so many in their day Czonka, Kik, Morris, The diesel, Thurman, Sweetness, Eric, & one i would have loved to see if his career could have played out was Bo --- Bo Knows football ?

 

Yah it would really be tough i loved watching OJ that dude was a beast in the day ! I don't know that i could pick just one it's kind of like Lay's potato chips !! 

 

Beast Mode Aw man there's just so many that were really great in their own right !

 

The Bus , Franco, Rocky Blier, goodness there's just to many !! 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, T master said:

WOW tough one to answer i loved watching so many in their day Czonka, Kik, Morris, The diesel, Thurman, Sweetness, Eric, & one i would have loved to see if his career could have played out was Bo --- Bo Knows football ?

 

Yah it would really be tough i loved watching OJ that dude was a beast in the day ! I don't know that i could pick just one it's kind of like Lay's potato chips !! 

 

Beast Mode Aw man there's just so many that were really great in their own right !

 

The Bus , Franco, Rocky Blier, goodness there's just to many !! 

Don't forget Wray Carlton

[VW82]

I don't know about greatest RB ever but I will say this kid in NYG looks like the greatest RB prospect ever. Barkley can do it all. He's like Marshall Faulk except he's bigger and can run you over in between the tackles. It's nuts.

 

My favorite runner was always Barry Sanders. Human highlight reel. Jim Brown was before my time but clearly he needs to be in any GOAT discussion. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by VW82