Lurker Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hammered a Lot said: Not grasping at straws. Worked Downtown on a project for a year had it happen almost every day. Wife workers Downtown also happens to her. Fact. I'm sorry to hear that you had a problem. I lived downtown for five years and have worked in the CBD for 30-plus. Walked to and from work, to and from parking ramps, many times late at night. In all that time, I can only remember one mugging incident of someone I knew and just a handful of panhandlers. Crime is not an issue that has to be factored into a stadium location decision, IMO...
wagon127 Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: I'm not against a new stadium, and I do believe that the current facility is just fine. I don't want to see a glorified shopping mall experience, which is what this could easily turn into....... I do think that your conjecture on the figures for naming rights, and PSL's is doubtful for the 2nd smallest NFL market. The rest is simply presumptuous..... So this is why you have been arguing non-stop for the last 2-3 hours? Wow. Nobody wants a glorified shopping mall. Terry pegula sort of alluded to that yesterday. I'd be happy with a 70,000 seat version of the Sabres arena honestly. But you dont wait until the current stadium is a safety concern or completely unsavageable to replace it. 2023 is a good year to move to a new stadium.
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 65,000 seat dome...just do it and reap the benefits of sellouts and indoor crowd noise for opposing offenses.
wagon127 Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: I haven't been arguing. I simply have opinions. Some people don't like them. ***B.F.D.*** There is nothing wrong with the current stadium, per routine structural inspections....... When do you think the bills should replace the current stadium? As you've said, if the stadium had safety concerns, it would be shut down already. It take 3 years to build a new one. So you have to start building it before the stadium would get shut down. So when will the current stadium be too old to hold NFL games?
mrags Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 58 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: The public outcry killed the Amherst/Downtown train. We had a number of Trolley cars from Cleveland lined up for $20 million. It was going to fly, except FEAR of downtown got in the way I don’t remember when that all happened but things are different now. Society is different now. Youll see. It’ll be done to some extent
wagon127 Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: I'm not against a new stadium. *Lambeau Field* opened in 1957. There is no hurry for this. What part of what you have said has given any evidence that you support the new stadium? You only support the new stadium, if its been 15 years since lambeau was replaced? Is that what your argument is?
The Senator Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: I'm not against a new stadium, and I do believe that the current facility is just fine. I don't want to see a glorified shopping mall experience, which is what this could easily turn into....... I do think that your conjecture on the figures for naming rights, and PSL's is doubtful for the 2nd smallest NFL market. The rest is simply presumptuous..... The current facility is ‘just fine’ for now, but it’s 50 years old and, despite it’s ambience and great sight lines, how many more times must we dump another $250M on it to keep it ‘just fine’? When you’re in your seats, it seems fine. When you enter the concourses, you begin to realize how decrepid the old girl is. If you saw Terry and Kim being interviewed today, Terry’s so impressed with what they’ve built in Dallas and what they’re building in LA, but he’s all about a much scaled/down stadium for Buffalo. Didn’t sound like he wanted a dome, certainly no shopping mall, but a more modest downtown stadium. . 1
Kirby Jackson Posted March 28, 2019 Author Posted March 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: I haven't been arguing. I simply have opinions. Some people don't like them. ***B.F.D.*** There is nothing wrong with the current stadium, per routine structural inspections....... The Packers stadium is still standing. How old is it? 'Sup wid dat???? $7.5 M/yr. is a chaw in the spittoon for a $1B facility....... Yet that is the $150M number that you are saying is a stretch. $7.5M x 20 years is $150M naming rights deal
wagon127 Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, BUFFALOBART said: Read my comments RE: Bethlehem Steel, etc........ Sheesh............ I would, but you have posted way too much over the last 3 hours, and i have better things to do. Just cause lambeau is still standing and doing fine, doesnt mean buffalo has to keep their 45 year old stadium until BUFFALOBART says its ok to build a new one.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 Lambeau did a 300m in 2003 and a 300m in 2011-15 1
Stank_Nasty Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: 65,000 seat dome...just do it and reap the benefits of sellouts and indoor crowd noise for opposing offenses. Being in a dome last year in Indy totally sucked. I want absolutely no part of that. I wasn’t sure how i’d feel about my first dome experience. My wife and I went into it sort of excited and both agreed the gameday experience totally faded as we walked further into the climate control. Neither of us walked away impressed. and let’s be real here.... winning will guarantee more sellouts than a dome ever would. I attend 3-5 home games a year and I know that number would most definitely drop for me going forward in a downtown dome. I know myself personally, and the group I usually head up with want no part of a dome at any point of the year. Absolutely love a sharp cold day at the Ralph. Edited March 28, 2019 by Stank_Nasty
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: Being in a dome last year in Indy totally sucked. I want absolutely no part of that. I wasn’t sure how i’d feel about my first dome experience. My wife and I went into it sort of excited and both agreed the gameday experience totally faded as we walked further into the climate control. Neither of us walked away impressed. and let’s be real here.... winning will guarantee more sellouts than a dome ever would. I attend 3-5 home games a year and I know that number would most definitely drop for me going forward in a downtown dome. I think the bills home crowd would be a little different inside then almost anywhere else. Also that indy dome notoriously destroyed the crowd noise and energy with the design of that new stadium. If you look at the saints home games and you will get a look at what a Bills dome would be like.
beerme1 Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Mark80 said: If you go on Zillow and look for available properties available for sale in the first ward area...there are basically none. And some of those housing projects in that area look just like Baltimore in The Wire. Completely abandoned (vacated) with no effort to fill them, but none of them for sale either? I think that's a pretty telling story. This has been my idea for a long time and you rehab a rotten piece of the city. Win Win. I'm happy other people share my vision. 7 hours ago, KennyDavisEyes said: I live 2 hrs away and parking in someone’s lawn on 20A allows me to be home to watch the last quarter plus of the 4 o’clock games. Downtown stadium would F that. I’d probably have to take time off work and spend the night instead. So instead of coming to town for a football game, putting $20 in Hammers pocket and leaving town you would come for a game, have extra meals stay in a hotel and help the economy then. Hmm, that is something to ponder. 6 hours ago, That's No Moon said: I think everything you just mentioned will be in the plan. The 190 has needed to be reworked in that area for awhile anyway in terms of ingress and egress and this is as good an excuse as any. The light rail will be extended to at least the building being the arena if not further. The Perry projects will be demolished to make way for something, etc. Etc. More people sharing my vision and making a useless part area serve a bigger cause. Oh and jobs and infrastructure and probably put a new arena as part of the complex and hell who knows maybe even have space to incorporate a convention center into it also. Or may after the new arena is open as part of the stadium/arena complex they blow up KBC and that's where a new convention center goes!! Hmmm. Damn this sure is fun spending everybody's money ? But think of the radical change and benefit to the city. Wow that is game changing. Hope I'm right. 1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said: You were 'done' a long time ago.......... I was done with your trolling posts and attitude a long way back in this thread. 34 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: I haven't been arguing. I simply have opinions. Some people don't like them. ***B.F.D.*** There is nothing wrong with the current stadium, per routine structural inspections....... The Packers stadium is still standing. How old is it? 'Sup wid dat???? $7.5 M/yr. is a chaw in the spittoon for a $1B facility....... You haven't been arguing indeed. You've been master level trolling for some reason and it's not because of your opinions because frankly your opinions are no ***B.F.D.*** bro. I'm not saying you aren't presenting some facts along the way but you do seem rather narrow minded. You must be one of those people who said Pegula was crazy to pay what he did for the team as he would never recover the money. Meanwhile a few people like Kirby were pointing things out like it should pay him back in about 10-12 years given the tv revenue an owner banks before dropping a dime each new season. Looks like ole Kirb was right as Pegulas are well on their way to breaking even on the purchase in reality and they will be free to assume a stadium debt load of reasonable magnitude don't you think? Lastly, you also seem to be completely overlooking everything else they are putting into the city. Harborcenter to start with. Dunno maybe they should have left that as a surface lot huh? But then there might be less to talk about. They are thinking big and will certainly leave a legacy here. Thanks to them! 1
Inigo Montoya Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 All these posts show the pickle that the Pegulas are in. No matter what they decide to do, they will upset about a third of the people who go to the games. I think there are three things though that are clear. 1 ; The stadium will be built downtown, and unfortunately, it has nothing to do with common sense or the game day experience. There is simply more opportunities for public officials and union bosses and developers to get rich if the stadium is built down town. Politicians accepting "campaign contributions" to sign off on the project, union bosses getting their kickbacks, bureaucrats getting an envelope of cash to waive that zoning requirement or environmental impact statement. The businessmen who already own property down town will be working behind the scenes with the politicians they already own to make sure the stadium gets built there to increase the value of their assets. They will all be angling for a piece of the pie and more people will get a piece of the pie if the stadium is built downtown than if it is built out in the boonies of Erie County in Orchard Park. There is going to be a billion dollars spent in Buffalo when this thing kicks off. The biggest project in the history of Western New York. It is a once in a life time opportunity for all these crooks and they are going to make sure they get as much of it as they can. The stadium is going downtown. Book it. 2; This thing will have a roof. Please refer to the point above. There is more money to be made on the stadium if it is a year round venue. The state and city and county are not going to chip in hundreds of millions of dollars for a stadium that gets used a dozen times a year. There isn't enough profit in it for them and everyone else with their hands in the till. The Pegulas will be forced to put a roof on the stadium to get the public funds. 3; The teams HQ and practice facilities will stay in Orchard Park. The Pegulas are quietly building some of the best facilities in the entire league in Orchard Park. No sense in tearing it all down after throwing tens of millions of dollars into it. More than that, it makes no sense to use expensive downtown real estate on weight rooms and training rooms, and cafeterias, and office space when they already have it on the cheap in Orchard Park. 1
Doc Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 1. Things going on behind the scenes will probably make building it anywhere else almost impossible. 2. It should have a roof. Ideally a retractable one but that will only add to the expense. 3. I agree. 2
BigDingus Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 16 hours ago, eball said: I'm just sayin', I would LOVE a downtown stadium with places to go before and after games. I'm just at a different place in my life and mega-tailgating in a parking lot isn't as important any more. Exactly how I feel! I'm not "old" by any means either (I'm 32), but I prioritize an enjoyable & comfortable game experience way above stuff outside of the game these days. If the stadium has good sight lines, decently comfortable seats, quality amenities, and a fun & friendly atmosphere I'll be thrilled. Tailgating is fine when it's done in a mature way, but too often people associate tailgating with "get as hammered as possible before kickoff, then act like nut job until I puke my guts out!" I think the team probably wants to limit the dangerous stuff going on & would like to promote a more family friendly environment. Hopefully tickets will still be mostly affordable, even with a new stadium. Can't imagine Bills ticket prices would ever shoot up past the bottom third of the league. 1
BillnutinHouston Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Is it doubtful to think that an NFL team (even in Buffalo) could get $7.5M a year in naming rights? That’s not aggressive (at all). $100M through PSLs isn’t that crazy either. 10,000 seats at $5k, 20,000 seats at $2,500 and you are there. Obviously those are averages but that is not a stretch at all. That’s especially true if they are paid off over 5 years. These PSL numbers seem very achievable to me. I'd take 2 seats at 2,500 per, as long as I can get between the 30 yard lines on the lower level and as long as ticket prices are reasonable. 1
Doc Brown Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 Just do what they did with the Jets/Giants stadium and build the new stadium right next to the old one. Make the new stadium a dome though because I'm getting too damn old to roast in the sun in September or get soaked with rain in 34 degree weather to the point of misery in November/December. I will miss the snow though. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Doc said: 1. Things going on behind the scenes will probably make building it anywhere else almost impossible. 2. It should have a roof. Ideally a retractable one but that will only add to the expense. 3. I agree. ....here would be my reasonable choice....... Lucas Oil Stadium is a multi-purpose stadium in Downtown Indianapolis, Indiana, United States. It replaced the RCA Dome as the home field of the NFL's Indianapolis Colts and opened on August 16, 2008 at a cost of $720 million ($860 million in 2019).[11] The stadium was constructed to allow the removal of the RCA Dome and expansion of the Indiana Convention Center on its site. The stadium is on the south side of South Street, a block south of the former site of the RCA Dome. In 2006, prior to the stadium's construction, Lucas Oil Products secured the naming rights for the stadium at a cost of $122 million over 20 years.[12] The venue also serves as the current home for the United Soccer League's Indy Eleven. 1
MacGyver Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 17 hours ago, teef said: i've never understood this. want to avoid those people? just buy club seats. comfortable seats, quick beer lines, shorter lines for the bathroom and much cleaner. it's easy to avoid the idiots. sometimes you just have to dish out a bit more cash. What you say is true true to some extent. However I think the NFL would rather remove as many idiots from the stadium as possible so more fans can have a better experience as opposed to just the fans in the club seats.
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