Kirby Jackson Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: That's his leverage? That he moves the team? He had that chance. Who wouldn't call that bluff (of those legislators who do not represent WNY)? They would ask....."where you gonna go?" Pegula's pal Stan Kroenke had a plan all along to move out of St. Louis--he was just waiting for LA. Pegula doesn't have that option. And Kroenke is putting up 1.6 billion cash and financing another 2.25 billion for a project that is now expected to cost at least 4.25 billion. Again, you asked his leverage, that’s leverage. He could entertain Toronto or even London. If the state draws a line in the sand he will have the support of other owners to play that card. These public/private partnerships are commonplace in sports. The Yankees and Mets are the 2 most recent examples of stadiums, in NY, that were heavily funded with tax dollars. I believe they were NYC dollars, but tax dollars nonetheless. This isn’t some rarity. This is the norm. The Pegulas have invested heavily in WNY and will put up their share on this. The taxpayers will be contributing though and if you think otherwise, you are crazy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Cardinals stadium was built for under 500 million with a retractable roof and the whole field slides outside of the stadium on railroad tracks. It is a grass field. Construction costs in NY and AZ are different and the Bills will have to do more infastruction work but I would not be surprised if the stadium comes in around 500-600 million mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Again, you asked his leverage, that’s leverage. He could entertain Toronto or even London. If the state draws a line in the sand he will have the support of other owners to play that card. These public/private partnerships are commonplace in sports. The Yankees and Mets are the 2 most recent examples of stadiums, in NY, that were heavily funded with tax dollars. I believe they were NYC dollars, but tax dollars nonetheless. This isn’t some rarity. This is the norm. The Pegulas have invested heavily in WNY and will put up their share on this. The taxpayers will be contributing though and if you think otherwise, you are crazy. Agreed. It seems a lot of commentary here is either folks making grand ( yet wholly unrealistic) political statements or whining about being priced out of attending games. A potential new stadium in Buffalo isn’t going to happen all that differently from what has been done elsewhere around the league. 5 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said: Cardinals stadium was built for under 500 million with a retractable roof and the whole field slides outside of the stadium on railroad tracks. It is a grass field. Construction costs in NY and AZ are different and the Bills will have to do more infastruction work but I would not be surprised if the stadium comes in around 500-600 million mark. Wouldn’t the amount of snowfall we get in the area rule out a retractable roof ? It seems a dome would be more suitable for our region but I’m not certain. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Agreed. It seems a lot of commentary here is either folks making grand ( yet wholly unrealistic) political statements or whining about being priced out of attending games. A potential new stadium in Buffalo isn’t going to happen all that differently from what has been done elsewhere around the league. Wouldn’t the amount of snowfall we get in the area rule out a retractable roof ? It seems a dome would be more suitable for our region but I’m not certain. I am not certain how a retractable roof would hold up to snow. I just mentioned the retractable roof due to it probably being more expensive than a dome or a partial fixed roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrb1979 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said: Agreed. It seems a lot of commentary here is either folks making grand ( yet wholly unrealistic) political statements or whining about being priced out of attending games. A potential new stadium in Buffalo isn’t going to happen all that differently from what has been done elsewhere around the league. I think being priced out is the biggest reason a lot of people don't want a new stadium. For some that might happen but IMO tickets will eventually rise to be closer to the league average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Drill a well, Terry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) Odd that Miami's owner doesn't want Buffalo dome I am firmly in the NO DOME camp. No sterile airplane hangar! Edited March 28, 2019 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Just now, Jrb1979 said: I think being priced out is the biggest reason a lot of people don't want a new stadium. For some that might happen but IMO tickets will eventually rise to be closer to the league average. Ticket prices rising to around the middle of the pack would almost certainly happen, and why not ? I do think the bottom of the barrel pricing structure that Bills fans have enjoyed for so long has given many an unrealistic view of things. It won’t last forever. 1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said: Odd that Miami's owner doesn't want Buffalo dome I am firmly in the NO DOME camp. No sterile airplane hangar! I probably wouldn’t want a dome in Miami either, fwiw. November and December ( and even January at some point ) in Buffalo, though ? Dome please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 NE Pittsburgh Chicago Cleveland Green Bay Philly NY Baltimore KC Washington are all cold No worse here. Domes are dumb. The SB is not coming here 3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Ticket prices rising to around the middle of the pack would almost certainly happen, and why not ? I do think the bottom of the barrel pricing structure that Bills fans have enjoyed for so long has given many an unrealistic view of things. It won’t last forever. I probably wouldn’t want a dome in Miami either, fwiw. November and December ( and even January at some point ) in Buffalo, though ? Dome please. The way I read it Miami is against the Bills building a dome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said: NE Pittsburgh Chicago Cleveland Green Bay Philly NY Baltimore KC Washington are all cold No worse here. Domes are dumb. The SB is not coming here The way I read it Miami is against the Bills building a dome Winters are much worse here than the places you cited ( okay maybe GB is equal/ worse) and snowfall total is probably not even close. Not sure why Miami would care about a potential Bills dome but OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Again, you asked his leverage, that’s leverage. He could entertain Toronto or even London. If the state draws a line in the sand he will have the support of other owners to play that card. These public/private partnerships are commonplace in sports. The Yankees and Mets are the 2 most recent examples of stadiums, in NY, that were heavily funded with tax dollars. I believe they were NYC dollars, but tax dollars nonetheless. This isn’t some rarity. This is the norm. The Pegulas have invested heavily in WNY and will put up their share on this. The taxpayers will be contributing though and if you think otherwise, you are crazy. I understand how it is done elsewhere. But can anyone, after every city in the country was clamoring to be the sight for Amazon HQ2 ever imagine that NYC, after landing such a massive windfall....would quickly chase them out? Those are the current forces in play in this state. The Yankees and Mets deals were, figuratively, a million years ago--and both were built with city issued tax free bonds, not NYS tax funds. There may be some "infrastructure" money tossed in. But I would be surprised if they get "half" from the state. Toronto is an easy bluff to call, by the way. London----I bet Pegula could not even put that out there with a straight face. Edited March 28, 2019 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 hours ago, LabattBlue said: The sight lines in the 100 level of the arena drive me crazy. I'd love to know from the design team, WTF they were thinking...especially coming from the Aud, where even the lower bowl was steep enough that you never had a problem seeing over the person in front of you. In the 100 level, there are many seats where you need to watch half the game on the jumbotron. The 300 level corners are also awful. You feel like you are in a different area code. And the bubble roof and giant blue wall suck any ambiance and sound out of the place. Also, cheap building materials like seats. Probably was necessary for it to get built though. Most of the other arenas built at that time are much better. Washington may be the closest in kind of crappy. Things like padded seats in the 300 level, steep grading (bell centre violated the code i think, and the acc needs railings in front of the 300 level seats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 41 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Winters are much worse here than the places you cited ( okay maybe GB is equal/ worse) and snowfall total is probably not even close. Not sure why Miami would care about a potential Bills dome but OK. I thought it was odd but Pegulas said Stephen Ross was against a dome in Buffalo and made a point of telling him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 hours ago, LabattBlue said: Just my 2 cents. I think a retractable roof is a waste of money and not being considered, but a moderately priced domed stadium which is more in line with Minnesota and Indy, and not Jerry's World or Mercedes Dome, is probably going to end up being the answer. Indianapolis has a retractable roof. It's not fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Why would Ross (or any owner for that matter) be against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Doc said: Why would Ross (or any owner for that matter) be against it? No idea... Seems like a disadvantage to his team Terry Pegula is the one who said it in the transcript Edited March 28, 2019 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: No idea... Seems like a disadvantage to his team Terry Pegula is the one who said it in the transcript I can only imagine that Ross is looking at it like the fans, i.e. playing in the elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 when my sister in law and nieces came to town this past season for the Colts game, we had no problem finding an excellent tailgate with other Bills fans even though it was downtown. Using the lack of tailgating opportunity to have the new one built in the city isn't enough; Bills fans will adapt and overcome. Like every stadium it will come down to ownership money, league money, and government money. As predictable as death and taxes. I don't agree, I think owners and the league should pay and keep the revenue, but that is just not how these deals get done. As for ticket prices, when I come back to the area all I can tell you is that there seems to be disposable income in WNY. The Sabres draw, I drive down the boulevard and every restaurant parking lot is full, people are downtown having fun, going to Sheas, etc., etc., etc. SO while I don't think the area can withstand a huge ticket price, huge PSLs, it seems to me the town can withstand a moderate increase in ticket pricing. Fans will just have to decide priorities when deciding what to use their entertainment dollars on, and given it's the Bills I would think that will be the priority for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Just Jack said: Wouldn't you be a bit biased also if you saw a good steady source of income disappearing in a few years? 4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Yep, Hammer has the most at stake for sure. He should feel like he does. We all would feel the EXACT same way. My stakes are good. Planned ahead awhile ago. When they retro NEF or build DT it does not matter to me. But as a TAXPAYING Western New Yorker I have opinions and for those who know me I'm not afraid to express them face to face or on TBD. I respect others opionion (even if their nonsense is wrong!) and I expect the same back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Wouldn’t the amount of snowfall we get in the area rule out a retractable roof ? It seems a dome would be more suitable for our region but I’m not certain. The retractable dome in Toronto stays closed all winter because the open/close mechanism doesn't work in the cold. Assuming the technology is still roughly the same, a retractable dome in Buffalo would also remain closed for the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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