Chandler#81 Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 45 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: I wonder if an unintended consequence will be more OPI reviews. Receivers push off all the time and it rarely gets called. The officials are doing a much better job with the pick play stuff. ^^ This. Damn near every pass thrown today has interference from the WR & DB. Jostling for position on the ball, hand fighting through the route and forcing a guy to the sideline. I expect a very high number of incompletions to be overruled by DPI. If I’m not mistaken, a successful challenge means you can do it all game, right?
StHustle Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Really do not like this at all. Right now a big pass play goes incomplete and everyone waits for the flag - now we have the additional wait is someone going to challenge it. It also means some tricky tack call is going to impact an outcome with a booth review on something with no effect. Really wish they would eliminate more replay instead of adding to it. It would be one thing if they get the call right, but they won’t all it will do is cause more anger and frustration among the fans when a small bump by your DB becomes a 30 yard penalty and a first down late in the game against a team like NE. Your argument as well as all other dissenting arguments make little to no sense. Coaches still have same amount of challenges and it still costs a team a timeout if the get it wrong. PI calls are not the type of reviews that will take all day. It is a quick and easy replay to run. Besides all that, as a Bills fan how could you not LOVE this?!?! Teams like the Bills who are far too often getting royaly screwed by bogus PI calls, giving teams refs favor HUGE undeserved chunk plays, can finally even the playing field, at least somewhat, with this new rule. I think people like you who dislike replay dont care how much an addition makes sense,,,,you will hate it just cause you dont like replay, Well replay is here to stay so why not be happy its the best it can be? Worst case scenario, it adds an average of 3 minutes to NFL games (which wont be the case) WHO CARES?!?!
Bing Bong Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: ^^ This. Damn near every pass thrown today has interference from the WR & DB. Jostling for position on the ball, hand fighting through the route and forcing a guy to the sideline. I expect a very high number of incompletions to be overruled by DPI. If I’m not mistaken, a successful challenge means you can do it all game, right? I'd imagine the play needs to be reversed with reasonable doubt which would be especially stringent on OPI. JMO If I were mandating the league I'd allow it, but be much more stringent on contact rules.. particularly offensively. I think reviews should simply be for obvious.. flagrant fouls like the Saints Rams game, otherwise let the play stand. Penalty has to be just completely obvious and have a severe affect on the play But seeing how the league and these high stakes games have few as momentus after the Saints call. One of the worst in memory, it should be an officiating issue, not a challenge Edited March 27, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P
Doc Brown Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: Have you ever watched say, a Patriots* game ? A player such as Stephon Gilmore gets away with things that drew flags when he wore a Bills helmet. Their former LT got a lot of holding penalties when he switched to a Giants uniform. To say that NFL officials don’t have a strong bias is crazy. They assume winning teams ( largely determined by a team’s QB, not the DBs or even OL most times) players simply made a good play rather than “ broke the rules”. Fouls are committed on almost every play in the MFL; they are mostly what you would consider “ judgment calls”. That’s where the bias comes is. A player on a losing team like the Bills grabs some jersey or holds a WRs arm late in a close game and the flag comes out. A NE player does the same or worse and it is ignored, as the player must have made a great play. It’s maddeningly obvious. Nate Solder penalties by year since 2016 (both accepted and declined). 2016 Pats - 7 (3 holding) 2017 Pats - 9 (4 holding) 2018 Giants- 6 (3 holding) Stephon Gilmore penalties by year since 2015 2015 Bills - 6 (5 pass interference) 2016 Bills - 9 (1 pass interference) 2017 Pats - 7 (2 pass interference) 2018 Pats - 10 (3 pass interference) Ever think you're just looking for penalties when watching the Pats?
Boatdrinks Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc Brown said: Nate Solder penalties by year since 2016 (both accepted and declined). 2016 Pats - 7 (3 holding) 2017 Pats - 9 (4 holding) 2018 Giants- 6 (3 holding) Stephon Gilmore penalties by year since 2015 2015 Bills - 6 (5 pass interference) 2016 Bills - 9 (1 pass interference) 2017 Pats - 7 (2 pass interference) 2018 Pats - 10 (3 pass interference) Ever think you're just looking for penalties when watching the Pats? It’s not the ones that are called. It’s the ones they get away with. That’s like looking at the box score, seeing the Pats* had 6 penalties called against them, and the opponent had 8. You’d think it was pretty even, no? If you watched the game though, you’d realize many more went uncalled and the flags were thrown in inconsequential situations. Numbers won’t prove anything, you have to watch the actual game. Anyone who watches the NFL knows the offensive holding call ( and non call ) is the biggest scam going. I’ll never convince you, it’s something you’d have to realize for yourself.
BillsFan1988 Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Andy1 said: I love this change. It should help remove bias against small market teams like the Bills. As fans, we just want the right calls made. Not necessarily if anything this gives the NFL more flexibility to fix games. Think about holding on any play u can call it. Bills score a TD Belicheck throws the red flag all of a sudden the td is reversed.
formerlyofCtown Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 Yet nothing on fantom toughing Tom Brady calls. I guess things that get Brady another SB are no big deal. Im good with the challenge on Called PI but not on non-calls. You can now challenge on most passing plays. 4 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Have you ever watched say, a Patriots* game ? A player such as Stephon Gilmore gets away with things that drew flags when he wore a Bills helmet. Their former LT got a lot of holding penalties when he switched to a Giants uniform. To say that NFL officials don’t have a strong bias is crazy. They assume winning teams ( largely determined by a team’s QB, not the DBs or even OL most times) players simply made a good play rather than “ broke the rules”. Fouls are committed on almost every play in the MFL; they are mostly what you would consider “ judgment calls”. That’s where the bias comes is. A player on a losing team like the Bills grabs some jersey or holds a WRs arm late in a close game and the flag comes out. A NE player does the same or worse and it is ignored, as the player must have made a great play. It’s maddeningly obvious. Its a league office bias.
Rochesterfan Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 4 hours ago, StHustle said: Your argument as well as all other dissenting arguments make little to no sense. Coaches still have same amount of challenges and it still costs a team a timeout if the get it wrong. PI calls are not the type of reviews that will take all day. It is a quick and easy replay to run. Besides all that, as a Bills fan how could you not LOVE this?!?! Teams like the Bills who are far too often getting royaly screwed by bogus PI calls, giving teams refs favor HUGE undeserved chunk plays, can finally even the playing field, at least somewhat, with this new rule. I think people like you who dislike replay dont care how much an addition makes sense,,,,you will hate it just cause you dont like replay, Well replay is here to stay so why not be happy its the best it can be? Worst case scenario, it adds an average of 3 minutes to NFL games (which wont be the case) WHO CARES?!?! It is not the challenges where it will be a major issue - although that is bad in and of itself - it is the subjective nature that at 2:00 - now every play will have some type of PI scrutiny put in place. Then these ticky tack fouls suddenly get called and in many cases it is subjective - is it offensive as the guy tries to push his way into an open spot - is it defensive because he held him up. It opens up a huge number of potentially questionable calls that will eventually add to the narrative that the NFL is fixed. I could care less about the time - the NFL game is fun to watch so the timing does not matter - unlike Baseball. It is the inconsistent nature in which they set these rules up that create a problem - it happened with the catch rule and will happen with this. There are so many potential big plays in an NFL game and they can happen at anytime, but the HCs have 2 (maybe 3 if they get them right) chances to challenge something. What happens if like in a NO game last year - there are 2 close calls early - then the rest of the game that team can no longer challenge egregious errors. It makes no sense. If the NFL wants to “get it right” then get rid of challenges and have every play reviewed and adjust the play clock so that even in hurry up situations there is enough time for the replay judge to review. Get rid of the challenge system that sucks - especially as many times the calls are so close in nature that it is hard to decide and becomes just another judgement call for a random guy to make and cost teams timeouts. I also disagree it balances things out - if you think the Bills get screwed by bogus PI calls now - just wait - this opens up the potential for even more small judgement calls to go against them at the worst time (within the final 2:00 of each half and OT). I personally do not think there is a league bias against the Bills or any team, but there are teams like NE that coach and work on getting PI calls on throws down field and this will add to their tactics. The short, back shoulder throw is a staple of Brady’s game and this rule plays right into that as the WRs purposefully make contact with the DBs to try and get a call - now that becomes even more of an option. 1
Rochesterfan Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 6 hours ago, eball said: Sure, and while they’re at it they can eliminate HD cameras, slow motion replay, and video boards in the stadiums. ”Let’s all bury our heads in the sand and allow correctable mistakes to stand!” It’s a one year rule. I’d like to see how it plays out. It’s not adding challenges and it will be up to a replay official with under 2:00 in each half. Sounds like a reasonable plan. The solution should not be to avoid technology. It would be fine if they truly want to get it right, but that is not the goal or they would eliminate challenges and have every play automatically reviewed. The fact is technology has increased 100 fold and it brings every play into light all over the field. It also opens a Pandora’s box of potential calls that are questionable that come into focus every year. This rule just adds another layer of judgement that can go multiple ways to game that is already complex. This will be the catch rule all over and the league will need to “redefine” PI next off season because of calls late in the game that get either created or overturned. It also allows them to call PI - what happens if the replay judge decides it is not PI, but defensive holding or illegal contact (2 more questionable calls that keep more drives alive than PI) - they can not make that call - so there is definitely contact, but they cannot correct it because that is outside the scope of the rule. The NFL needs to stop with the limited bull and either say we are open to reviewing everything and having someone do it after each play or they need to get rid of replay entirely and let it play out. The wishy washy nature of challenges and full replay at 2:00 is bogus. If they want it right - it needs to be right all the time and if not then let it go. 1
eball Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: It would be fine if they truly want to get it right, but that is not the goal or they would eliminate challenges and have every play automatically reviewed. The fact is technology has increased 100 fold and it brings every play into light all over the field. It also opens a Pandora’s box of potential calls that are questionable that come into focus every year. This rule just adds another layer of judgement that can go multiple ways to game that is already complex. This will be the catch rule all over and the league will need to “redefine” PI next off season because of calls late in the game that get either created or overturned. It also allows them to call PI - what happens if the replay judge decides it is not PI, but defensive holding or illegal contact (2 more questionable calls that keep more drives alive than PI) - they can not make that call - so there is definitely contact, but they cannot correct it because that is outside the scope of the rule. The NFL needs to stop with the limited bull and either say we are open to reviewing everything and having someone do it after each play or they need to get rid of replay entirely and let it play out. The wishy washy nature of challenges and full replay at 2:00 is bogus. If they want it right - it needs to be right all the time and if not then let it go. Thanks for taking the time to be more specific with your concerns. I think you raise some good points. We have to remember that instituting widespread or revolutionary change in this league won't happen all at once -- it usually takes baby steps. As McD said yesterday in his interview what happened in the NFC Championship game was "low-hanging fruit" that needed to be addressed. I believe the rule for this season addresses that situation. Will coaches look for a way to use the rule to their advantage? Of course. Will it be perfect? No. It's a step in the right direction, though, in my opinion. Reasonable minds may differ. Cheers. Edited March 27, 2019 by eball
GunnerBill Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 9 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: Interesting change that makes sense. But you know the refs and that idiot Al Riveron are going to f it up royally. Giving Al Riveron the chance to watch events again is no guarantee of calls being correct. This will work contrary to their attempts to speed up games is my biggest concern. I suspect you are talking at least 1 or 2 extra booth reviews per 2 min warning in close games. 2
Andy1 Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: I get where you are coming from and at times I have been in your camp. But why reward the dense with only 15 yards when they likely would have given up many more. Defenders would just tackle guys beyond 15 yards if they were beaten I agree. I don’t have a good answer. I just don’t like seeing big swings late in a game on a bad call or ticky-tack call on PI. It doesn’t seem fair that a minor PI can result in a 20 or 30 yd penalty but Gronkowski can take intentionally try to take someone’s head off and get 10 yds.
Ramza86 Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 This is a disgusting move. PI is a subjective call. Literally one deep throw gets challenged....and if a defender puts one finger on the WR its technically a PI. I havent seen a rule this bad since the force out rule.
The Bills Blog Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: ^^ This. Damn near every pass thrown today has interference from the WR & DB. Jostling for position on the ball, hand fighting through the route and forcing a guy to the sideline. I expect a very high number of incompletions to be overruled by DPI. If I’m not mistaken, a successful challenge means you can do it all game, right? No. You just get to keep your timeout. You have two challenges whether or not they are successful. 1
DCOrange Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: This is a disgusting move. PI is a subjective call. Literally one deep throw gets challenged....and if a defender puts one finger on the WR its technically a PI. I havent seen a rule this bad since the force out rule. Lol, come on.
Ramza86 Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 Just now, DCOrange said: Lol, come on. You think thats not going to happen? You think the ref is going to say...it wasnt hard enough of a PI? Every single week we are going to have controversial plays now because of this. This rule will be gone next year.
DCOrange Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 Just now, Ramza86 said: You think thats not going to happen? You think the ref is going to say...it wasnt hard enough of a PI? Every single week we are going to have controversial plays now because of this. This rule will be gone next year. "One finger" penalties never happens unless a ref just sees a guy flop and doesn't realize it's a flop. This will fix those situations. There might be some relatively soft penalties every once in awhile but that has always been the case. Defenders have always been allowed to have some amount of contact with players. Refs aren't going to be slowing the play down to see if a guy brushes up against the WR's sleeve and call that a penalty. Those types of plays likely won't even be challenged in the first place.
Romie Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 The real reason Gronk retired. Edelman should just mail it in now before he's exposed. 1
Ramza86 Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: "One finger" penalties never happens unless a ref just sees a guy flop and doesn't realize it's a flop. This will fix those situations. There might be some relatively soft penalties every once in awhile but that has always been the case. Defenders have always been allowed to have some amount of contact with players. Refs aren't going to be slowing the play down to see if a guy brushes up against the WR's sleeve and call that a penalty. Those types of plays likely won't even be challenged in the first place. Of course they will. If I was Mcdermott and I just saw Josh throw the ball 60 yards down the field and there is any hint of PI...you immediately challenge. Youre looking at a 60 yard play. There will be no consistency here...that will be another big issue. Youre going to see two of the same exact plays happen in two different games and each ref will call it differently.
Recommended Posts