\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/world/europe/wdl-aviation-british-airways-germany-scotland.html
Marv's Neighbor Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 That happens when an airline relies on low bid contractors who maybe work too many flights, for too many different airlines. Any in house person would have realized that the flight number was not correct for that segment/sector. Then you get a complacent aircrew that just look at the flight plan, and enter the same incorrect data into the flight management computer on the plane. Just because it's properly formatted and printed does not make it correct. Take-off, engage the auto pilot, and not pay attention to where the plane is actually heading. Many airlines keep the shades mostly drawn, so the passengers can use the entertainment systems, making the passengers mostly clueless. I guess none of the passengers were paying attention to the map feature in the entertainment system?
sherpa Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said: That happens when an airline relies on low bid contractors who maybe work too many flights, for too many different airlines. Any in house person would have realized that the flight number was not correct for that segment/sector. Then you get a complacent aircrew that just look at the flight plan, and enter the same incorrect data into the flight management computer on the plane. Just because it's properly formatted and printed does not make it correct. Take-off, engage the auto pilot, and not pay attention to where the plane is actually heading. Many airlines keep the shades mostly drawn, so the passengers can use the entertainment systems, making the passengers mostly clueless. I guess none of the passengers were paying attention to the map feature in the entertainment system? The part of your post after the second sentence is inaccurate and impossible. The crew thought the flight was going to Edinburgh. That's what it was filed for and that's what their flight plan said. It is not remotely possible to "take-off, engage the autopilot and not pay attention to where the airplane is heading." Nor is it possible to not notice that if you think you are flying from London City airport to Dusseldorf, which is a largely easterly heading, that you would not notice that you didn't fly over the English Channel, transit Belgian or Netherlands airspace and talk to their controllers and enter Germany, but instead head northwest and check in with Scottish. Again, they were told the flight was to Edinburgh and flew the plan as intended. 1
row_33 Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said: That happens when an airline relies on low bid contractors who maybe work too many flights, for too many different airlines. Any in house person would have realized that the flight number was not correct for that segment/sector. Then you get a complacent aircrew that just look at the flight plan, and enter the same incorrect data into the flight management computer on the plane. Just because it's properly formatted and printed does not make it correct. Take-off, engage the auto pilot, and not pay attention to where the plane is actually heading. Many airlines keep the shades mostly drawn, so the passengers can use the entertainment systems, making the passengers mostly clueless. I guess none of the passengers were paying attention to the map feature in the entertainment system? don't they have quotas to fill and defeats of all vital physical and mental challenges once set up for hiring policies at global corporations?
Marv's Neighbor Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 3 hours ago, sherpa said: The part of your post after the second sentence is inaccurate and impossible. The crew thought the flight was going to Edinburgh. That's what it was filed for and that's what their flight plan said. It is not remotely possible to "take-off, engage the autopilot and not pay attention to where the airplane is heading." Nor is it possible to not notice that if you think you are flying from London City airport to Dusseldorf, which is a largely easterly heading, that you would not notice that you didn't fly over the English Channel, transit Belgian or Netherlands airspace and talk to their controllers and enter Germany, but instead head northwest and check in with Scottish. Again, they were told the flight was to Edinburgh and flew the plan as intended. The crew was told? Who "told" them? The contract Dispatcher, Ground Ops, the crew desk? Questions should have been raised well before the plane left the gate. Was there maybe a last minute; crew change, gate change, plane change etc., that contributed to the 'mix up?" That's not mentioned, but you have to wonder. If the crew boarded through the terminal, what did the gate signs say? Do they ever notice all the handle tags on the luggage, or maybe look at an airbill when they're on the ramp? Simply saying they "flew the plan as intended," is just trying to rationalize what happened. All the passengers "intended" to deplane at Dusseldorf! The company obviously intended that to happen too.
sherpa Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said: The crew was told? Who "told" them? The contract Dispatcher, Ground Ops, the crew desk? Questions should have been raised well before the plane left the gate. Was there maybe a last minute; crew change, gate change, plane change etc., that contributed to the 'mix up?" That's not mentioned, but you have to wonder. If the crew boarded through the terminal, what did the gate signs say? Do they ever notice all the handle tags on the luggage, or maybe look at an airbill when they're on the ramp? Simply saying they "flew the plan as intended," is just trying to rationalize what happened. All the passengers "intended" to deplane at Dusseldorf! The company obviously intended that to happen too. Their schedule told them. They have a schedule and they do not change that without notification. It involves a number of things, hotel/transportation changes etc., so if there is a change to your schedule, you know it. I'm not familiar with London City airport, so it may be that the crew boards from the ramp, or there are no terminal ..destination signs, and I have never looked at baggage tags. Still, I am very familiar with flight management system uploads and how flights are managed from the flight deck. You don't get the plan up-link until you type in the destination ICAO identiier. Not possible they typed in the identifier for Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf, as it would cause a host of other issues. Point is they were expecting to fly to Edinburgh, had a flight plan for Edinburgh, loaded the flight management system for Edinburgh and flew to Edinburgh. Not possible to stare at a screen that displays your route and not notice it is going northwest instead of east, and a hundred other things that would have tipped them off. In short, not their issue.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 26, 2019 Author Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, sherpa said: Their schedule told them. They have a schedule and they do not change that without notification. It involves a number of things, hotel/transportation changes etc., so if there is a change to your schedule, you know it. I'm not familiar with London City airport, so it may be that the crew boards from the ramp, or there are no terminal ..destination signs, and I have never looked at baggage tags. Still, I am very familiar with flight management system uploads and how flights are managed from the flight deck. You don't get the plan up-link until you type in the destination ICAO identiier. Not possible they typed in the identifier for Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf, as it would cause a host of other issues. Point is they were expecting to fly to Edinburgh, had a flight plan for Edinburgh, loaded the flight management system for Edinburgh and flew to Edinburgh. Not possible to stare at a screen that displays your route and not notice it is going northwest instead of east, and a hundred other things that would have tipped them off. In short, not their issue. Sherpa, Sherpa - They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, "Let 'em crash!" 1
sherpa Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: Sherpa, Sherpa - They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, "Let 'em crash!" The "they" in my post was in answer to a question about the cockpit crew. Nothing to do with the passengers.
Ted Striker Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, sherpa said: The "they" in my post was in answer to a question about the cockpit. The cockpit! What is it?
KD in CA Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ted Striker said: The cockpit! What is it? It's the place where the pilot sits but that's not important right now!
Gray Beard Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) Doesn’t a flight attendant say “welcome aboard flight xxx to destination yyy” as the doors are closing? Or is that old fashioned, and they don’t do that anymore? Or did the flight attendants know where they were supposed to go, but the cockpit crew was given the wrong flight plan, and nobody noticed? Edited March 26, 2019 by Gray Beard
GoBills808 Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, KD in CA said: It's the place where the pilot sits but that's not important right now! ...captain, how soon till we can land? ...I can't tell. You can tell me, I'm a doctor. No, I mean I'm just not sure.
sherpa Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 21 minutes ago, Gray Beard said: Doesn’t a flight attendant say “welcome aboard flight xxx to destination yyy” as the doors are closing? Or is that old fashioned, and they don’t do that anymore? Or did the flight attendants know where they were supposed to go, but the cockpit crew was given the wrong flight plan, and nobody noticed? The flight attendants thought the flight was scheduled for Ediburgh as well. It is called a "wet lease," where the entire operation is subbed out to a leasing company. You don't have to worry about it in the US. Contracts prohibit it. 10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: ...captain, how soon till we can land? ...I can't tell. You can tell me, I'm a doctor. No, I mean I'm just not sure. "Well can you guess?" "In about two hours." "You can guess in about two hours?" 1
boater Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: Sherpa, Sherpa - They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, "Let 'em crash!" I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. Really. Edited March 26, 2019 by boater
Marv's Neighbor Posted March 27, 2019 Posted March 27, 2019 19 hours ago, sherpa said: Their schedule told them. They have a schedule and they do not change that without notification. It involves a number of things, hotel/transportation changes etc., so if there is a change to your schedule, you know it. I'm not familiar with London City airport, so it may be that the crew boards from the ramp, or there are no terminal ..destination signs, and I have never looked at baggage tags. Still, I am very familiar with flight management system uploads and how flights are managed from the flight deck. You don't get the plan up-link until you type in the destination ICAO identiier. Not possible they typed in the identifier for Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf, as it would cause a host of other issues. Point is they were expecting to fly to Edinburgh, had a flight plan for Edinburgh, loaded the flight management system for Edinburgh and flew to Edinburgh. Not possible to stare at a screen that displays your route and not notice it is going northwest instead of east, and a hundred other things that would have tipped them off. In short, not their issue. I guess it never is!
4merper4mer Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 The Earth's poles are shifting and it is starting to show.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: The Earth's poles are shifting and it is starting to show. https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2019/02/05/the-magnetic-north-pole-is-mysteriously-moving-and-the-us-government-finally-caught-up/?outputType=amp-type It's always the Canadians! /smh...
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