CB EJ Gaines 1 year deal

[Franchiseneedsme]

Could this possibly mean that White could be traded for a top player, or a big move up the board. Maybe White and a 3rd to move up to 2 for Bosa? 

Not saying I think this will happen or could happen, but I think Bean is a complete wildcard. 

[LSHMEAB]

I have NO idea why people are talking about trading a stud corner on a rookie contract. None. Unless there is a ridiculous offer on the table, this is a terrible train of thought. Have you considered that the corners playing opposite White look better than they actually are because there's a top player on the other side of the field?

[nucci]

3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

One nice thing about having a coach last more than two seasons is that the system changes less year to year and plugging in a guy like EJ is a lot easier. Hoping the coaching staff sticks together for a bit instead of the continuous merry go round. 

They will if they win

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I mean, man, come on.  You can't complain about hyperbole and then call free agency "0-9."  Star was good, Ivory was good, Trent was good.  Even Bodine was good for what he was brought in to do.  

 

And nothing of what he said was hyperbole.  That is literally the state of the message board.  They really are damned if they do and damned if they don't.  

 

Star Lotulelei........the last time he played for McD in 2016 he had 4 sacks 5 TFL's and 6 QB hits.......in Buffalo that stat line was 0-1-0.   I know he is supposed to be more about tying up blockers....... but in this defense he needs to be able to get off a block.   He couldn't.  This ain't a 3-4 with a 350# NT who can just sit on the LOS all day.    He was pretty woeful........the low point of which was him getting manhandled in Foxboro by the Pats OL as they put up 200+ yards rushing in the first half.   But thanks to $25M in guarantees Star ain't going anywhere whether he is better this year or not. 

 

Chris Ivory ran for 3.3 ypa.........the league average yardage per carry is 4.2.     So more than 20% below league average.   That is not good.   It's not even middling.......it's bad.   But it's consistent with his play in recent years.   He pretty much stinks but it was funny when he just dropped that ball he was running with in Miami.........you don't see that every day.   And when he got tackled by his hair.    That is always fun.

 

Trent Murphy made a few nice plays like the FF on Cousins......... but in general he struggled mightily.    He clearly was not close to healthy.....and it's not like he had just one offseason to rehab his injury.......he missed the entire 2017 season and was eased into the 2018 season by the Bills and was still limping badly.    Gotta' question the medical staff on that evaluation.     

 

Bodine was also not good and that's why they paid big bucks to replace him.    Clearly if he had played well they wouldn't have pursued Morse.

 

Beane was hoping to hit some HR's in UFA...........didn't work.

 

As far as being damned if the do..........let me know when they "do" something...........it's been 20 years since they were in contention to win their division let alone the SB so it's unfortunately a claim that is not based in fact any longer.   

[26TrapDraw]

10 hours ago, nucci said:

I concur

That's nothing to be ashamed of we don't judge here.

[LSHMEAB]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Star Lotulelei........the last time he played for McD in 2016 he had 4 sacks 5 TFL's and 6 QB hits.......in Buffalo that stat line was 0-1-0.   I know he is supposed to be more about tying up blockers....... but in this defense he needs to be able to get off a block.   He couldn't.  This ain't a 3-4 with a 350# NT who can just sit on the LOS all day.    He was pretty woeful........the low point of which was him getting manhandled in Foxboro by the Pats OL as they put up 200+ yards rushing in the first half.   But thanks to $25M in guarantees Star ain't going anywhere whether he is better this year or not.  

What am I missing here? It was a BAD signing. The guy is not an impact player. It's fine to be a space eater, but he used to put up SOME numbers. He's not a liability per se, but he's certainly not a strength. There's a reason DT is so in play. If Star was dominant, the 3T would be a cakewalk for whoever McD decided to line up there.

 

It's not some contract that will strap them, but Star is not very good. 

 

It's OK to believe in the overall vision and call a spade a spade.

[vincec]

10 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

The wrong EJ came back....  

There’s still time...

19 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What am I missing here? It was a BAD signing. The guy is not an impact player. It's fine to be a space eater, but he used to put up SOME numbers. He's not a liability per se, but he's certainly not a strength. There's a reason DT is so in play. If Star was dominant, the 3T would be a cakewalk for whoever McD decided to line up there.

 

It's not some contract that will strap them, but Star is not very good. 

 

It's OK to believe in the overall vision and call a spade a spade.

DL is the top remaining priority. They need both DT and DE help or all the moves in the secondary will not be as helpful as people may think.

[ColoradoBills]

18 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

What am I missing here? It was a BAD signing. The guy is not an impact player. It's fine to be a space eater, but he used to put up SOME numbers. He's not a liability per se, but he's certainly not a strength. There's a reason DT is so in play. If Star was dominant, the 3T would be a cakewalk for whoever McD decided to line up there.

 

It's not some contract that will strap them, but Star is not very good. 

 

It's OK to believe in the overall vision and call a spade a spade.

 

Having Edmunds who is so raw behind him I wonder what his exact role was in McDermott's D last year.

I want to see him improve on the stat line this year too.

I don't think he played bad signing.............just want to see him better and be worth his cost this year.

[BuffaloBill]

Great depth signing - heck he might even start.

[Dkollidas]

Good move 

[RocCityRoller]

3-4 deep at NFL starting level CB.

 

McBeane knows it's a passing league and is doing everything it can to have as much depth as possible at CB and S.

 

Take TE Hock at #9 if he is there and deny NE the Gronk replacement and give JA a reliable target IMO.

 

Go back to DL in a deep DL draft in round 2.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

As far as being damned if the do..........let me know when they "do" something...........it's been 20 years since they were in contention to win their division let alone the SB so it's unfortunately a claim that is not based in fact any longer.   

If "they" is Beane and McDermott, they have NOT had 20 years. They've had two.

Year one, they were in the playoffs ("they backdoor'd their way in, blah blah blah"). How many other Bills coaches made the playoffs in the last 17 years? How many other Bills coaches made the playoffs in their first season?

Year two, they fell short of the playoffs, but had the #2 defense in the league and identified a franchise QB. Talk all you want about how bad you think Star was, but teams with as big a liability as you're describing Star to be along the defensive line typically don't perform as well as the Bills defense did. Oh, and about Star's performance last year? Let's hear from tenured NFL veteran and Pro Bowler Lorenzo Alexander on the issue:

“Obviously he (doesn’t play) a sexy position, but he allows other people around him to make plays,” Alexander said. “I’ve definitely been able to have a pretty good year this year. A lot of it is contributed to what he’s been able to do as far as keeping guys off me, allowing me to run free.

“In the pass rush, people can’t step up. On first or second down I know a couple of guys that have gotten sacks throughout the year just because Star has gotten that great push. He’s earned every bit of what he’s got with that five-year deal.”
 

Beane and McDermott are not batting 1.00. No one is. But in my opinion, they're doing a hell of a job. 

 

[IgotBILLStopay]

9 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

He signed for about 9 mil I think last year. We didn’t have that space iirc

I don’t think so. He signed with the Browns for less than 4 mill last season. But he was demanding a lot more from the Bills.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

Great depth signing - heck he might even start.

 

With a base nickel he’s essentially starting regardless 

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

I don’t think so. He signed with the Browns for less than 4 mill last season. But he was demanding a lot more from the Bills.

He went to the Browns because he was going to be a starter. They hadn’t drafted Denzel Ward yet, didn’t have much at all at corner, and he was going to have the opportunity play on the outside where he wanted in the 1 or 2 spot. The Bills actually signed vontae Davis prior to FA starting, and it looked like at the time Gaines would be in the slot. He signed for less than many thought he would get in Cleveland, but I reall think he was hoping to start on the outside all year and then have a bigger market in FA this time around. That didn’t work out, partly due to injury. 

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

With a base nickel he’s essentially starting regardless 

 

He very well may end up the 4th CB.  Or 5th if Kevin Johnson looks good.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

If "they" is Beane and McDermott, they have NOT had 20 years. They've had two.

Year one, they were in the playoffs ("they backdoor'd their way in, blah blah blah"). How many other Bills coaches made the playoffs in the last 17 years? How many other Bills coaches made the playoffs in their first season?

Year two, they fell short of the playoffs, but had the #2 defense in the league and identified a franchise QB. Talk all you want about how bad you think Star was, but teams with as big a liability as you're describing Star to be along the defensive line typically don't perform as well as the Bills defense did. Oh, and about Star's performance last year? Let's hear from tenured NFL veteran and Pro Bowler Lorenzo Alexander on the issue:

“Obviously he (doesn’t play) a sexy position, but he allows other people around him to make plays,” Alexander said. “I’ve definitely been able to have a pretty good year this year. A lot of it is contributed to what he’s been able to do as far as keeping guys off me, allowing me to run free.

“In the pass rush, people can’t step up. On first or second down I know a couple of guys that have gotten sacks throughout the year just because Star has gotten that great push. He’s earned every bit of what he’s got with that five-year deal.”
 

Beane and McDermott are not batting 1.00. No one is. But in my opinion, they're doing a hell of a job. 

 

 

 

1) Mmmkay........then let me know when McDermott contends for a SB.......or even a division title............hell, let me know when his team has a representative showing against the Patriots..........he hasn't been here 20 years but he's already been the worst Bills coach against the Belichick Patriots yet.

 

 Again you can't be damned if you do until you do first.    You don't seem to understand the meaning of that saying.   They've done nothing that anyone needs to take note of..........I mean do we reminisce fondly about Mularkey and Marrone's 9 win seasons?  I think not.  

 

2) So why was the Bills pass rush so bad if Star got such great push?   They ranked 26th in the NFL in sacks.   You probably should have left that part of Lorax's smoke blowing out.

 

 

[folz]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What is lost in all that hyperbolic nonsense above is that the key is getting the player assessments right.

 

0-9 last UFA season.......including the strange "he wasn't who we thought he was" McCarron situation.......shows either questionable due diligence or medical or film evaluations.........so despite you implying that it was commendable work it most certainly was not.

 

I like the approach of using UFA to fill holes so that there isn't pressure to reach for needs in the draft.........but you still gotta' get good players.

 

 

 

It feels like you're looking at the situation with no context at all. You have to weigh in the money available last year, what they were trying to do (position themselves for one of the top 3 QBs), the player's and the team's situation, etc.

 

For instance, your statement about McCarron above makes it sound like the Bills were all in on McCarron (he's our guy) and then suddenly decided they weren't. You have to remember what the QB market was last year. There were a number of decent QBs available and a lot of QB hungry teams. Knowing they were all in on drafting one of the top QBs, they weren't going to get into a bidding war for players like Cousins or Keenum, etc. and when the dust settled, McCarron was kind of last man standing, so they signed him to a backup QB level deal. They maybe hoped he could be that veteran leader and maybe a bridge QB until the rookie was ready, but when he couldn't beat out Peterman and wouldn't be a great mentor (because he still wanted to start), they shipped him away. It's not like they pegged him as a top FA that they had to have, took a huge swing on him, and whiffed.

 

And obviously Beane is willing to go for some low risk, high reward players on short deals (older players, or guys coming off of injury, but who have been productive or have big time potential). Obviously you're not going to hit on all of those guys, that's why they are a risk. But when you do, it is an incredible bargain. Now with Vontae last year, the mistake wasn't signing him, the mistake was not having a viable backup for him. But as you can see, this year, now that they have money to spend, they are trying to create depth and competition at every position.

 

And you keep saying 0-9 last UFA season. What about Star and Chris Ivory. Ivory wasn't brought in to be an all-star RB, he was brought in to be a backup and a bulldozer and he did just that. If you want to note production stats, I'd say look at the offensive line, which was more of the running game problem than Ivory or Shady's age. And what are they doing this offseason? Oh yeah, they're rebuilding the offensive line. And Star played well last year, so not sure how he isn't at least a 1 in your equation. Trent Murphy has to be an incomplete grade, not a zero. Let's see what he does this year when he isn't injured.

 

I'm not saying Beane and Co. didn't have their share of whiffs in free agency last year, but you have to look at the context of the situation and what they are trying to do to fix it this year, now that they have the assets. And even look at the players individually and their situation. Like bringing in Coleman. That didn't hurt the team in the least. They took a chance on him at very low risk and it didn't work out, so you move on. They knew it was a 50/50 proposition that it would work out. They didn't plan the rest of the team around him or anything, expecting a certain amount of production. But you, I'm sure,  add that to the "0-9" (bad GM) category. I'm glad our GM takes shots like that.

 

Another factor that is far too often forgotten, is the retirement of Eric Wood and Ritchie Incognito. The team expected to have both of them last year. Once they retired, it was a terrible draft for offensive linemen (not to mention all of their draft capital was focused on QB) and they didn't have the cash to go after a big name center or guard. So, you bring in a guy like Bodine, who was serviceable. But again, you would add that to the bad move category, despite them not having many other options due to the surprise nature of the retirements. Think of how much better the offense would have been last year with Eric and Ritchie on the line. More context.

 

And a lot of the FAs they signed the last two years were signed as one year players, just to fill out the roster and get us through the season (knowing they were just ok players), because that's what they could afford. I mean are you including guys like Rafael Bush and Kaelin Clay in that 0-9? These guys were brought in as insurance policies, not to be starters. The plan was always to keep upgrading those positions as soon as it was possible. You can't rebuild an entire team in one or even two offseasons, especially when a team is in "cap jail."

 

It's hard to believe you could be so staunchly against this regime when, even if they miss on some of these current free agents, they are at least trying their hardest to field a competitive team and one that is fun to root for because of the culture they have fostered. They appear to have a plan. They are building depth. They are managing the cap properly.

I'm not saying its a guarantee that they make us a perennial playoff team, but I find it hard not to be hopeful/at least somewhat optimistic when it appears that this team has more focus and direction than anytime since Polian/Butler and Marv/Wade.

 

 

And I love that EJ is back btw! 

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

5 hours ago, folz said:

 

It feels like you're looking at the situation with no context at all. You have to weigh in the money available last year, what they were trying to do (position themselves for one of the top 3 QBs), the player's and the team's situation, etc.

 

For instance, your statement about McCarron above makes it sound like the Bills were all in on McCarron (he's our guy) and then suddenly decided they weren't. You have to remember what the QB market was last year. There were a number of decent QBs available and a lot of QB hungry teams. Knowing they were all in on drafting one of the top QBs, they weren't going to get into a bidding war for players like Cousins or Keenum, etc. and when the dust settled, McCarron was kind of last man standing, so they signed him to a backup QB level deal. They maybe hoped he could be that veteran leader and maybe a bridge QB until the rookie was ready, but when he couldn't beat out Peterman and wouldn't be a great mentor (because he still wanted to start), they shipped him away. It's not like they pegged him as a top FA that they had to have, took a huge swing on him, and whiffed.

 

And obviously Beane is willing to go for some low risk, high reward players on short deals (older players, or guys coming off of injury, but who have been productive or have big time potential). Obviously you're not going to hit on all of those guys, that's why they are a risk. But when you do, it is an incredible bargain. Now with Vontae last year, the mistake wasn't signing him, the mistake was not having a viable backup for him. But as you can see, this year, now that they have money to spend, they are trying to create depth and competition at every position.

 

And you keep saying 0-9 last UFA season. What about Star and Chris Ivory. Ivory wasn't brought in to be an all-star RB, he was brought in to be a backup and a bulldozer and he did just that. If you want to note production stats, I'd say look at the offensive line, which was more of the running game problem than Ivory or Shady's age. And what are they doing this offseason? Oh yeah, they're rebuilding the offensive line. And Star played well last year, so not sure how he isn't at least a 1 in your equation. Trent Murphy has to be an incomplete grade, not a zero. Let's see what he does this year when he isn't injured.

 

I'm not saying Beane and Co. didn't have their share of whiffs in free agency last year, but you have to look at the context of the situation and what they are trying to do to fix it this year, now that they have the assets. And even look at the players individually and their situation. Like bringing in Coleman. That didn't hurt the team in the least. They took a chance on him at very low risk and it didn't work out, so you move on. They knew it was a 50/50 proposition that it would work out. They didn't plan the rest of the team around him or anything, expecting a certain amount of production. But you, I'm sure,  add that to the "0-9" (bad GM) category. I'm glad our GM takes shots like that.

 

Another factor that is far too often forgotten, is the retirement of Eric Wood and Ritchie Incognito. The team expected to have both of them last year. Once they retired, it was a terrible draft for offensive linemen (not to mention all of their draft capital was focused on QB) and they didn't have the cash to go after a big name center or guard. So, you bring in a guy like Bodine, who was serviceable. But again, you would add that to the bad move category, despite them not having many other options due to the surprise nature of the retirements. Think of how much better the offense would have been last year with Eric and Ritchie on the line. More context.

 

And a lot of the FAs they signed the last two years were signed as one year players, just to fill out the roster and get us through the season (knowing they were just ok players), because that's what they could afford. I mean are you including guys like Rafael Bush and Kaelin Clay in that 0-9? These guys were brought in as insurance policies, not to be starters. The plan was always to keep upgrading those positions as soon as it was possible. You can't rebuild an entire team in one or even two offseasons, especially when a team is in "cap jail."

 

It's hard to believe you could be so staunchly against this regime when, even if they miss on some of these current free agents, they are at least trying their hardest to field a competitive team and one that is fun to root for because of the culture they have fostered. They appear to have a plan. They are building depth. They are managing the cap properly.

I'm not saying its a guarantee that they make us a perennial playoff team, but I find it hard not to be hopeful/at least somewhat optimistic when it appears that this team has more focus and direction than anytime since Polian/Butler and Marv/Wade.

 

 

And I love that EJ is back btw! 

 

 

 

Trading for Coleman didn’t hurt them?  They paid Coleman what, $3.5M for his tryout?  How much did Gaines get from Cleveland, again?

 

And yet ... the bigger mistake may have been giving up on Coleman so quickly, while holding on to a washed Benjamin for a couple more months and then having to pay Deonte Thompson. Now Coleman’s career is potentially getting on track with the Giants. So there’s an example of damning yourself when you do and when you don’t!

 

You want to talk about CONTEXT?  Here is a partial list of the guys Beane acquired - with draft picks and money - who "weren't who we thought they were":

 

AJ McCarron

Corey Coleman

Jeremy Kerley

Kelvin Benjamin

Vontae Davis

Trent Murphy

and maybe Star, Newhouse, and Phillip Gaines

 

Some of these players (Davis, Kerley, Benjamin and Murphy) were counted on to START.  Meanwhile you have to dig deep to find a Beane acquisition who made a positive impact.

 

At this rate, BADOL is right that Beane's 2019 FA class needs to produce some keepers.  If Terry Pegula had a pulse, he'd be grilling Beane about ROI.  You think Jerry Jones or Handy Kraft would be ok with that list and production?  Here is my prediction: if the 2019 class's success rate is less than 50%, McDermott - who has shown himself to be adaptable and icy cold when it comes to loyalty to underproducing coaches (a positive trait IMO) - will make a power move to replace Beane with another hand-picked GM, or himself.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Coach Tuesday

[akm0404]

...the what now?

 

The thesis of that last word salad is that McDermott is going to make a "power move" and coerce Pegula into firing Beane?

 

I don't even.