Patriots weak at skill positions

[XABI64]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

While the Pats*** have done well w/o Gronk, they did not perform to their dominate level last year w/o Gronk.  And without Gronk, they don't win the SB.  

I'll also add that with Oliver and/or Simmons (draft both if you can) chasing Brady around next year, he won't have time to be throwing the ball, and Sony won't have anywhere to run.  

 

Plus, Edmunds and Milano could both be Pro-Bowl caliber players next year.  

 

 

 

thats pushing it. Edmunds still has A LOT to learn. we had one of the worst LB groups in the league last season 

[Matt_In_NH]

All the players are interchangeable except Brady and Bellicheck.  Until something happens with one or both of those guys, nothing really changes.  Every year the threads come out that they are "vulnerable".  Hopefully Brady declines fast due to his age, other than that, they will find a way.

[LSHMEAB]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Nope: 

My statement was indeed incorrect. Tom Brady has been less effective a passer without Gronk. However, you have to consider that losing a weapon in season to injury is a bit different than a full offseason with the knowledge that said player will not be available. 

 

Where I was mislead was in their record; they've won 9 straight games without Gronk. I take that with a grain of salt because...Patriots.

 

Overall, I do not believe losing Gronk is going to derail the Pats in any meaningful way as great of a player as he's been.

Edited March 25, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

My statement was indeed incorrect. Tom Brady has been less effective a passer without Gronk. However, you have to consider that losing a weapon in season to injury is a bit different than a full offseason with the knowledge that said player will not be available. 

 

Where I was mislead was in their record; they've won 9 straight games without Gronk. I take that with a grain of salt because...Patriots.

 

Overall, I do not believe losing Gronk is going to derail the Pats in any meaningful way as great of a player as he's been.

They have of course won without him and with him, but (and I may be proven wildly wrong for saying this) I think this last SB victory was their final part of "unfinished business." I think losing to Philly was a *massive* disappointment, and the victory over LA settled that score in a big way. I really do think we're at the end. They have lost a lot of good players, and Brady is 42. Although I know they're good at reloading, I just think we're currently in the twilight phase of an era. I don't expect them to be a truly dominant team next season. They've ruled for 18 years, and all things -- good and bad -- come to an end.  Bills, Jets, and Dolphins (plus Pitt, Indy, and KC) fans have been so brutalized that they have a hard time conceiving of their prison term ever ending, but it will. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by dave mcbride

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

They have of course won without him and with him, but (and I may be proven wildly wrong for saying this) I think this last SB victory was their final part of "unfinished business." I think losing to Philly was a *massive* disappointment, and the victory over LA settled that score in a big way. I really do think we're at the end. They have lost a lot of good players, and Brady is 42. Although I know they're good at reloading, I just think we're currently in the twilight phase of an era. I don't expect them to be a truly dominant team next season. They've ruled for 18 years, and all things -- good and bad -- come to an end.  Bills, Jets, and Dolphins (plus Pitt, Indy, and KC) fans have been so brutalized that they have a hard time conceiving of their prison term ever ending, but it will. 

I've been saying the same for months. I just don't believe the demise will be precipitated by the loss of Gronk. I believe the demise is directly tied to that failing right arm Tom Brady is carrying around.

[Success]

It’s over.  BB can be a wizard, but it almost seems like he’s trying to challenge himself to keep things interesting.

 

Just a huge talent drain over the past 2 years.  And they have signed a bunch of JAGs as replacements.  

 

He’s good, but not that good.  And he hasn’t had divisional competition like he’ll get from the Bills and Jets this year.

[SouthNYfan]

23 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

I think we've conditioned ourselves to believe this is never going to end and Tom will indeed beat time. I can assure you that he will not.

 

While losing Gronk is a blow, I think they've been better without him than with him if memory serves. As long as Pedelman is around, I don't think they'll have a problem in terms of finding skill position players to match the EP system. 

 

It's not going to be the lack of skill position players that brings down this dynasty. It's going to be time. And the clock is nearing midnight.

 

The sith have unnaturally long lifespans.

3 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

My statement was indeed incorrect. Tom Brady has been less effective a passer without Gronk. However, you have to consider that losing a weapon in season to injury is a bit different than a full offseason with the knowledge that said player will not be available. 

 

Where I was mislead was in their record; they've won 9 straight games without Gronk. I take that with a grain of salt because...Patriots.

 

Overall, I do not believe losing Gronk is going to derail the Pats in any meaningful way as great of a player as he's been.

 

I had it in another thread, Brady's numbers with gronk on the field vs without gronk is the equivalent of Aaron Rodgers vs Ryan tannehill

(I believe these numbers are since gronk came into the league)

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

I've been saying the same for months. I just don't believe the demise will be precipitated by the loss of Gronk. I believe the demise is directly tied to that failing right arm Tom Brady is carrying around.

 

They are better with gronk than without by a significant margin, at least statistically.

Similar to the chiefs before and after hunt got cut.

Basically the question is can you replace a Hof player with a replacement level player and keep winning?

You can when you have the depth and scheming of the Pats.

They are the devil.

[mabden]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:29 PM, RPbillsfan said:

With Gronk retiring and other major free agent loses the Patriots will be much weaker and vulnerable next year.

 

 

Of course the Patriots do have 6 picks in the first three rounds to rebuild, but also have serious holes to fill.

 

 

 

I heard the exact same thing last year. 

[Iron Maiden]

Welcome to the 10th annual " The Pats are done this year " thread.....never fails....they've won 2 of the last 3 SB and were in all 3.....is Brady slowing down ? yep, I believe so.....is he still a top QB ? I also think so....as someone else mentioned, their running game is now top notch and Brady can read a defense better than anyone...they'll reinvent themselves as always.....oh, and BTW, they might have the best secondary in the league.....their D is nothing to sneer at....If the Bills are to take the division away from them, we'll need JA to take a massive step forward....in fact, we'll need the entire team to do so.....

Edited March 26, 2019 by Iron Maiden

[GoBills808]

^Tell me more about how great the Patriots are.

[njbuff]

Brady will hit the wall sooner rather than later, but I’m not going to predict when it happens.

 

ill just let it happen and the Pats hopefully suffer thru many years of pain like we have.

[Mat68]

Belichick and McDaniels have their hands full re shaping the offense again.  I dont want Hockinson anywhere near NE.

[row_33]

I'm not betting $1,000 the Bills get more wins than the Pats this year.

 

If you aren't willing to make that wager, i don't want to hear from you.

 

 

 

Or your little sugar plum fairy wishes on how everything will work out for the Bills just because you think the Pats are falling apart.

 

at least 15 teams are very serious about taking over that are well ahead of anything tangible the Bills have at the moment

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by row_33

[MAJBobby]

On 3/24/2019 at 4:29 PM, RPbillsfan said:

With Gronk retiring and other major free agent loses the Patriots will be much weaker and vulnerable next year.

 

I reviewed Sportac NFL link and looked at the current TE and WR on the roster and it's worse then what the Bills had last year.

 

Of course the Patriots do have 6 picks in the first three rounds to rebuild, but also have serious holes to fill.

 

One Bills point in this is that we can assume Hockenson, Fant and Irv Smith will all be drafted in Round 1.  I believe this may alter the approach in the rest of free agency and in the draft.  My feeling is that the Bills make a move at DT now in FA, maybe even offering a pick for TB 3 technique tackle Gerald McCoy.  With the Bucs in dire cap status, they could move him to the Bills and pick up 13 million in cap space.  That would free up the Bills to draft a TE in round 1, if a trade down is viable select Hockenson (all purpose) or Fant (major downfield threat) with their first round pick and then BPA thru the rest of the draft.

 

 

Elite QB.

 Edelmen

and will refresh that skill position void (as you see it) with all their early draft picks essentially 6 picks in the top 100

 

32 Noah Fant, TE Iowa

56 Julian Love, CB Notre Dame

64 Andy Isabella, WR UMass

73 Darnell Savage, S Maryland

97 Dawson Knox, TE Mississippi

101 Drue Tranquill, LB Notre Dame

134 Justin Hollins, EDGE Oregon

205 Demarcus Christmas, IDL Florida State

239 Anthony Johnson, WR Buffalo - BB Troll Pick

243 Bryce Love, RB Stanford

246 Hunter Renfrow, WR Clemson

252 Jordan Wyatt, CB Southern Methodist

 

But Point remains see how easy that was to replenish skill positions.

Fant, Isabella, Knox, Johnson, Love, Renfrow - With Brady as the QB?

 

This Mock is probably unrealistic as there is no Boston College players selected (BB always takes some BC players) and there is no Navy player selected late (like he has a tendency to do).  But it does have the BB troll pick in it.  The other Troll pick might just be Tyree Jackson as their developmental QB.

Edited March 26, 2019 by MAJBobby

[ricko1112]

23 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Brady certainly wasn’t good in that Super Bowl, but that’s what worries me when dreaming about the Pats dynasty coming to an end. They always find a way to win. As far as Jared Goff is concerned, I’m not his biggest fan, but the Pats make a lot of QB’s “puke on their shoes”. I’m going to give Belichick at least some credit for shutting down the Rams. Sure, the Bears and Eagles gave the blueprint of how to slow down Goff, but the Pats perfected it in the Super Bowl.

 

The Pats have historically been all about Brady, but he did decline a bit last season imo. The issue is the fact that Belichick is also the goat, and Brady can still win while declining with such a great as his head coach. Every week Belichick makes his fellow NFL coaches look like clowns.  

Here are Brady's stats for last season: He completed 65.8% of his passes for 4355 yards, 29 TDs, 11 INTs for a 97.7 rating. In the playoffs: He completed 68% of his passes for 953 yards (250 more than #2 Goff). The passed for 50 1st downs (15 more than #2) and had 14 pass plays that went for more than 20 yards (4 more than #2). People look at the 2 TDs to 3 INT ratio as the basis for the "decline."  They scored 91 points (29 more than #2). Most teams would take those declining stats for their QB. 

[mannc]

19 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

They have of course won without him and with him, but (and I may be proven wildly wrong for saying this) I think this last SB victory was their final part of "unfinished business." I think losing to Philly was a *massive* disappointment, and the victory over LA settled that score in a big way. I really do think we're at the end. They have lost a lot of good players, and Brady is 42. Although I know they're good at reloading, I just think we're currently in the twilight phase of an era. I don't expect them to be a truly dominant team next season. They've ruled for 18 years, and all things -- good and bad -- come to an end.  Bills, Jets, and Dolphins (plus Pitt, Indy, and KC) fans have been so brutalized that they have a hard time conceiving of their prison term ever ending, but it will. 

I hope you’re right, but I’m not at all convinced.  Belichick is incredibly adaptable and we saw that last year with their transition to the top running offense in the league.  He always seems to be a step ahead of the rest of the league, and several steps ahead of the Bills.  I expect the Pats to acquire a QB in the draft and start the transition.  And I’m pretty sure there won’t be any “rebuilding years” in Foxborough.

[SirAndrew]

13 minutes ago, ricko1112 said:

Here are Brady's stats for last season: He completed 65.8% of his passes for 4355 yards, 29 TDs, 11 INTs for a 97.7 rating. In the playoffs: He completed 68% of his passes for 953 yards (250 more than #2 Goff). The passed for 50 1st downs (15 more than #2) and had 14 pass plays that went for more than 20 yards (4 more than #2). People look at the 2 TDs to 3 INT ratio as the basis for the "decline."  They scored 91 points (29 more than #2). Most teams would take those declining stats for their QB. 

Brady is still very good, and he shows up when it matters most (ex. AFC playoffs). My issue is the fact that almost everyone in the sports world wants to give Brady 100 percent of the credit for the Pats recent success. There is so much more to that team than just Brady at this point. I also understand that it’s an unpopular opinion. Belichick is an all time great who coaches up that defense every season. He is also been able to exploit every weakness of his opponent each week. 

 

The offense also benefited from being a great running team this season. Right at a time when the running game seemed all but extinct in the NFL, the Pats came along and become a ball control offense. It was a brilliant coaching job of going against everything that the modern NFL is trending towards. NFL defenses in this era are built to stop spread offense. The Pats established the line of scrimmage and that opened up a lot for Brady. When you have the goat behind center, the last thing opponents want to see is a strong run game. Brady deserves a ton of credit, but I don’t see him as the sole reason for the Pats success. I think they’d drop off significantly without him, but I’m also willing to say that he has declined. The issue is that a declining Brady can still win games, especially with so much help from the run game. 

[billsfan_34]

Their lines are good and still put up healthy numbers- dont count them out until B and B are gone.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, ricko1112 said:

Here are Brady's stats for last season: He completed 65.8% of his passes for 4355 yards, 29 TDs, 11 INTs for a 97.7 rating. In the playoffs: He completed 68% of his passes for 953 yards (250 more than #2 Goff). The passed for 50 1st downs (15 more than #2) and had 14 pass plays that went for more than 20 yards (4 more than #2). People look at the 2 TDs to 3 INT ratio as the basis for the "decline."  They scored 91 points (29 more than #2). Most teams would take those declining stats for their QB. 

The td/int ratio is SO deceiving. How many times did he get them down to within the five and then hand it off on the next play for a td? Td drives engineered is a better stat for him this year given their run first approach inside the 10.