Advice dealing with local government

[4BillsintheBurgh]

2 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Consider writing a scathing OP Ed naming specific council members, and read it at your next town board meeting.  If the response isn't what you want, publish it, shaming them into doing the right thing.  It's really the only other way to really motivate a politician.  Since you don't have money as a carrot, use shame as a stick.  Or just change the night you practice. 

That's a nice thought, the first one. Unfortunately for the second, it's not just me, it's three other teams that need to fit two practices per team in 3 days instead of 5. 

[Saxum]

22 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Contact @Limeaid he has a wonderful way with people.

 

Only asses like you

22 hours ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

Can you change practice days or times so you can use the same fields? If not I would say find another field and burn giant phalluses in the fields that you got pushed out of.

That may offend big ***** like Cripple Creek so I wouldn't.

[SoTier]

22 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

hate to be so negative but government could care less. If you got money they they are open for business if not you're out.

 

 

 

That's not necessarily true.   Most local governments actually do care about providing services for the locals but they have lots of competing agendas and have to balance them.  Not everybody in the municipality has children or grandchildren who play soccer, so they probably welcome the rental income to off-set some of the park maintenance costs which might be a significant expenditure in smaller communities.   Moreover, the municipality didn't rent out the soccer fields for every day, only two.  There are still three week days and both week end days available for free practices.  My guess is that the local government officials didn't think that would an onerous burden on the kids soccer teams that used the fields for free. 

 

The OP can take this issue to the next city/town council/board meeting but I think that he/she may not be successful because many people will see this as one group being unwilling to share public facilities just because they've used them in the past.  I can't disagree with that view.   

[BUFFALOKIE]

Shiv the mofos? Or maybe encourage the kiddos to take up disc golf instead?

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Only asses like you

So add me to the list that includes your bosses (for offering you a raise) and everyone who stands at a football game. That’s a mighty long list there Lou.

[Alaska Darin]

Walk in the main office and cut the first B word you see.  There's no ambiguity when you shiv a mofo.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

21 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Walk in the main office and cut the first B word you see.  There's no ambiguity when you shiv a mofo.

I would never publicly condone something like this, do you think I'm some kind of idiot? Cue dc tom

Edited March 26, 2019 by 4BillsintheBurgh

[4BillsintheBurgh]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

That's not necessarily true.   Most local governments actually do care about providing services for the locals but they have lots of competing agendas and have to balance them.  Not everybody in the municipality has children or grandchildren who play soccer, so they probably welcome the rental income to off-set some of the park maintenance costs which might be a significant expenditure in smaller communities.   Moreover, the municipality didn't rent out the soccer fields for every day, only two.  There are still three week days and both week end days available for free practices.  My guess is that the local government officials didn't think that would an onerous burden on the kids soccer teams that used the fields for free. 

 

The OP can take this issue to the next city/town council/board meeting but I think that he/she may not be successful because many people will see this as one group being unwilling to share public facilities just because they've used them in the past.  I can't disagree with that view.   

Well, Saturdays and Sundays are gamedays, so we're okay there. The clubs play on separate days by design of the state soccer association.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the my local area has recently come into extra cash due to fracking, not to mention they have recently added a gazebo for $50 grand and rent that for $50 a pop. I think I've seen it used twice in the 4 years it's been around. They are going to put an ampitheater in this year, don't know how much that's running, I'm sure I could find out if I really want to. 

[Max Fischer]

On 3/24/2019 at 6:56 PM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

hate to be so negative but government could care less. If you got money they they are open for business if not you're out.

 

 

 

This attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Government isn’t some Anonymous-faceless entity out to get you, it’s is made up of regular people, rules and if you understand that there is a way things get done you might almost an even chance of accomplishing your mission. Remember, there are people just like vying for the same piece of the pie.  Be smart and go get your slice. The alternative is to give up and rant about the Man. 

 

- First, organize yourself. There is strength in numbers. Which of your group knows people in government?

- Who knows somebody who could be of assistance?

- Go find out the rules, how do they decide who gets the field and who makes the Park and Rec decisions? 

- Is there an appeals process?

- Do your local elected oversee and have influence on Park and rec decision?  

- Chances are those elected will know the decision makers and could find out how it works. 

- Persisitence and class win over people (ie, don’t be a wanker, you wouldn’t like that and neither does anyone else). 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Max Fischer

[SoTier]

45 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Government isn’t some Anonymous-faceless entity out to get you, it’s is made up of regular people, rules and if you understand that there is a way things get done you might almost an even chance of accomplishing your mission. Remember, there are people just like vying for the same piece of the pie.  Be smart and go get your slice. The alternative is to give up and rant about the Man. 

 

- First, organize yourself. There is strength in numbers. Which of your group knows people in government?

- Who knows somebody who could be of assistance?

- Go find out the rules, how do they decide who gets the field and who makes the Park and Rec decisions? 

- Is there an appeals process?

- Do your local elected oversee and have influence on Park and rec decision?  

- Chances are those elected will know the decision makers and could find out how it works. 

- Persisitence and class win over people (ie, don’t be a wanker, you wouldn’t like that and neither does anyone else). 

 

 

 

Excellent post.  Local governments in smaller municipalities are actually made up of your friends, neighbors, and acquaintances who choose to get involved in/work for the local municipality.  I live in a small city (30,000) in a predominantly rural county (120,000).  A current county legislator is the spouse of one of my best friends.  A former county legislator and the former long-time president of the city council were among my co-workers.  The current county executive brings his dogs to the local dog park.  Another friend of mine lives around the corner from the mayor who stops to chat with her if he's walking in the area and she's doing yard work.

 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Government isn’t some Anonymous-faceless entity out to get you, it’s is made up of regular people, rules and if you understand that there is a way things get done you might almost an even chance of accomplishing your mission. Remember, there are people just like vying for the same piece of the pie.  Be smart and go get your slice. The alternative is to give up and rant about the Man. 

 

- First, organize yourself. There is strength in numbers. Which of your group knows people in government?

- Who knows somebody who could be of assistance?

- Go find out the rules, how do they decide who gets the field and who makes the Park and Rec decisions? 

- Is there an appeals process?

- Do your local elected oversee and have influence on Park and rec decision?  

- Chances are those elected will know the decision makers and could find out how it works. 

- Persisitence and class win over people (ie, don’t be a wanker, you wouldn’t like that and neither does anyone else). 

 

 

 

Truly don’t go nuclear right out of the gate. As you mention it’s largely regular people trying their best at local level jobs. They also likely see you as still having the majority of the weekdays and all of the weekends so they may have considered this a pretty good compromise. 

 

Ultimately, is there anything other than 100% access to this field that would satisfy your needs? That’s what I meant by go with answers not problems. Is there another unused field in the town that could be used for drills part of the week for instance?

[apuszczalowski]

13 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Well, Saturdays and Sundays are gamedays, so we're okay there. The clubs play on separate days by design of the state soccer association.

 

As I mentioned earlier, the my local area has recently come into extra cash due to fracking, not to mention they have recently added a gazebo for $50 grand and rent that for $50 a pop. I think I've seen it used twice in the 4 years it's been around. They are going to put an ampitheater in this year, don't know how much that's running, I'm sure I could find out if I really want to. 

It doesnt matter if the municipality has come into money or not, that money will be used for things such as keeping taxes lower, infrastructure repairs and work, constructing other amenities for the public and saved for future expenses. It can also be used for helping out with grants and assistance to programs.

 

If the field has been rented by an organisation that paid the required fees to rent them, they get priority of when they get used over a group that has just been using them for free over the years. There are other days that they are available that can be used, and if your using them without charge, then you have to take what you can get. 

 

Theres no use fighting it because theres nothing to fight, if the other group went through the proper channels to reserve the space, the  they get the space and theres nothing you can do to get it back. Like I suggested before, if you are not for profit, or something similar, you may ne able to ask for assistance from the local municipality to get a grant or subsidy to help pay for the field rental times so you can book the fields, but it would be for whatever open times they have left.

 

 

[apuszczalowski]

3 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

Government isn’t some Anonymous-faceless entity out to get you, it’s is made up of regular people, rules and if you understand that there is a way things get done you might almost an even chance of accomplishing your mission. Remember, there are people just like vying for the same piece of the pie.  Be smart and go get your slice. The alternative is to give up and rant about the Man. 

 

- First, organize yourself. There is strength in numbers. Which of your group knows people in government?

- Who knows somebody who could be of assistance?

- Go find out the rules, how do they decide who gets the field and who makes the Park and Rec decisions? 

- Is there an appeals process?

- Do your local elected oversee and have influence on Park and rec decision?  

- Chances are those elected will know the decision makers and could find out how it works. 

- Persisitence and class win over people (ie, don’t be a wanker, you wouldn’t like that and neither does anyone else). 

 

 

Bookings of public facilities like arenas, sports fields, public pavilions, etc. Are typically handled like rentals of non government facilities. You call in/apply to book times/dates of when you need them and pay the required rental fees. If the facility/field isnt booked, then you get it. If its already booked, you pick another time/date or location.

 

Some places may have Grant's or subsidies you can apply for that would go through council and may approve waiving the fees for groups, usually if they can show they are charitable/not for profit, etc. type of organisation. 

 

There isnt really anything to fight, if the other group went through the proper channels, booked the field and paid the fees, they get the field at those dates/times. 

[row_33]

there's no option of arming all your players with billy clubs and layin' a warning down on the usurpers to leave your field alone?

 

 

[That's No Moon]

On 3/24/2019 at 5:58 PM, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Just hoping to get a little advice regarding dealing with local government. The situation is this: I am involved with a local soccer club that uses our local townships park fields for games and practice. This spring the recreation board has decided to rent the fields Monday and Tuesday nights to competative club so our local club will not be able to practice on them. While I realize the board can do what it wants I would like to push back through our township board and am looking for advice on how to do that. As one of many volunteers it kind of sucks to get 40% of our possible practice days taken away and the local club gets nothing but cut grass from our recreational board.

 

I appreciate any help/advice on where to start. My first thought is to go to the township manager and probably a township board meeting but I'm wondering if I will need to go higher.

 

Thanks.

Try the local school district.  You're probably going to have to pay something for it and show the usual stuff like insurance and what have you.

 

I empathize with your situation but when you say all the local board does is cut the grass that's probably not entirely accurate and, from a taxpayer point of view, if someone is willing to pay for the time that is all money that is used to offset parks and rec costs. Do you paint the lines on the field? Do you buy and string the nets? Did your organization buy the goals themselves? Is your field covered in dandelions? If not they put something on it that was far from free. Is your field actual grass or is it mostly weeds and crab grass linked together? Are there lots of bumps and divots and holes? Rolling the field isnt free. Neither is aerating is twice a year. Neither is overseeding and fertilizing and weed control. Now if they truly do none of that, and your organization was doing it for them for free that would be my argument. Otherwise??

 

I'm athletic director at my school and we just kicked a local football program off our campus.  2 reasons, first because they didn't follow the rules I set out for them.  They were not allowed to use the soccer field at all because I didn't want it torn up (because of #2).  They didn't follow that rule and I caught them multiple times.  Secondly, because they weren't paying anything to help me pay for the wear and tear or damage they caused to the field in the way of filling in holes, reseeding bare spots, etc.  It was costing us a ton of money to have them there and, given that they didn't follow my simple guidelines on top of that, they got the boot.  If they want to come back to us, they need to pay.  A lot.  Up front.  I'd rather my field sit empty and not be a mess for my kids who are actually entitled to use it than to give it out for free to people who tear it up.

Edited March 26, 2019 by That's No Moon

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Try the local school district.  You're probably going to have to pay something for it and show the usual stuff like insurance and what have you.

 

I empathize with your situation but when you say all the local board does is cut the grass that's probably not entirely accurate and, from a taxpayer point of view, if someone is willing to pay for the time that is all money that is used to offset parks and rec costs. Do you paint the lines on the field? Yes Do you buy and string the nets? Yes Did your organization buy the goals themselves? Yes Is your field covered in dandelions? Yes, unless we pay someone to weed and feed it If not they put something on it that was far from free. Is your field actual grass or is it mostly weeds and crab grass linked together? There are two main fields and we rotate to try and minimize the bare spots. One needs weed/feed and overseeding because most of the topsoil was taken off of it to when it was built for a softball outfield. One of our parents knew someone so we were getting that field done twice a year for $500. Are there lots of bumps and divots and holes? Yes Rolling the field isnt free. We have done it in the past for free with volunteer resources, nothing from the rec board Neither is aerating is twice a year. Neither is overseeding and fertilizing and weed control. Now if they truly do none of that, and your organization was doing it for them for free that would be my argument. I would be okay with the arrangement if we could get some help from them. As an example, a few years ago a local community college hosted a flag football tournament after the fall season. The ground was soft and they tore the fields up pretty good. The college gave the rec board $1000 to help fix the fields, none of that money was spent on the fields. This is one of many examples I have over the years. Otherwise??

 

I'm athletic director at my school and we just kicked a local football program off our campus.  2 reasons, first because they didn't follow the rules I set out for them.  They were not allowed to use the soccer field at all because I didn't want it torn up (because of #2).  They didn't follow that rule and I caught them multiple times.  Secondly, because they weren't paying anything to help me pay for the wear and tear or damage they caused to the field in the way of filling in holes, reseeding bare spots, etc.  It was costing us a ton of money to have them there and, given that they didn't follow my simple guidelines on top of that, they got the boot.  If they want to come back to us, they need to pay.  A lot.  Up front.  I'd rather my field sit empty and not be a mess for my kids who are actually entitled to use it than to give it out for free to people who tear it up.

I may have a chance with the local high school, and we have a turf field. I don't know if I will be able to practice there because of after school sports, but I am hoping to play games there. The grass practice fields are used year round, in the spring they use them for softball and track. The turf would be nice for the kids and we won't have to worry about cancelling if the weather is wet. I don't see us using the turf this spring because the season starts April 7th and I think permission would probably have to go through the school board.  Your thoughts on that?

 

Here is an example of my frustration with the rec board. Over the years the one field at the park seems to be slowly sinking (the creek overflows onto it in the spring) so at some point we will have to bring in a tri-axle or two of dirt to stop the puddles from causing us to cancel games. I will expect the same support I got after a rec board event put deep ravines in one of the fields from a fire truck (I was the president of the club at the time) - nothing. I did make a deal with the guy who works at the park and gave him a $50 gift certificate to help spread the 40+ tons of dirt with a front loader, and was expressly told that needed to be between me and him.

 

The only thing I'll say about the local football program is if you want a successful high school program you need those feeder leagues well run so they can deliver kids to you. If you, the school board and the parents don't care about winning then no worries. Really can't blame you though, no need to offer it if the rules can't be respected. It's interesting the high school coach wouldn't have told them to get their stuff straight since he will be the one effected if the pipeline of talented kids dries up.

 

Sorry to ramble, this stuff really gets to me because I try to make things nice for the kids and it seems like I just get kicked in the nuts for caring. One of the reasons I had to step down from being the president.

 

[That's No Moon]

44 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I may have a chance with the local high school, and we have a turf field. I don't know if I will be able to practice there because of after school sports, but I am hoping to play games there. The grass practice fields are used year round, in the spring they use them for softball and track. The turf would be nice for the kids and we won't have to worry about cancelling if the weather is wet. I don't see us using the turf this spring because the season starts April 7th and I think permission would probably have to go through the school board.  Your thoughts on that?

 

Here is an example of my frustration with the rec board. Over the years the one field at the park seems to be slowly sinking (the creek overflows onto it in the spring) so at some point we will have to bring in a tri-axle or two of dirt to stop the puddles from causing us to cancel games. I will expect the same support I got after a rec board event put deep ravines in one of the fields from a fire truck (I was the president of the club at the time) - nothing. I did make a deal with the guy who works at the park and gave him a $50 gift certificate to help spread the 40+ tons of dirt with a front loader, and was expressly told that needed to be between me and him.

 

The only thing I'll say about the local football program is if you want a successful high school program you need those feeder leagues well run so they can deliver kids to you. If you, the school board and the parents don't care about winning then no worries. Really can't blame you though, no need to offer it if the rules can't be respected. It's interesting the high school coach wouldn't have told them to get their stuff straight since he will be the one effected if the pipeline of talented kids dries up.

 

Sorry to ramble, this stuff really gets to me because I try to make things nice for the kids and it seems like I just get kicked in the nuts for caring. One of the reasons I had to step down from being the president.

 

Well, like I said if you've pumped all that money into a public facility you have more of a claim to it but it's still not great. It sort of depends how far you want to take it. If you have documentation of everything you've spent you can bring it to open session of a town board meeting and complain about it so it at least ends up on the record. What the other club is paying for the time is public record also. I dint think that will get you action by April 7th.

 

In terms of the school there is usually an application process. I would start by calling the District office to find out what that is then make sure you have all your paperwork completely in order.  Sometimes a building principal has the authority to approve stuff, sometimes it has to go through the superintendents office, sometimes school board. It all depends what procedure they established. I would expect them to charge something for the turf field and it probably depends what status your group has  if or what you charge participants and how many of the participants are district residents. I'll see if I can track down the chart for our local District to give you an idea of what I mean but start at District Office, probably the Facilities Dept. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

2 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

I'll see if I can track down the chart for our local District to give you an idea of what I mean but start at District Office, probably the Facilities Dept. 

Thanks, I appreciate the help.