Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Taro T said: How about rather than that, we let Huber & the others do their job and see how it all plays out? A lot of what was done to set up then candidate Trump (& candidate Sanders & others) was already illegal. Let the process work. And while that's going on, figure out what adjustments need to be made to the laws (if any). Huber has already been working on this for over 1 year. Don't start skirting the law right when things are starting to look up. Would make the good guys just as bad as the bad guys. I'm willing to. But I'll tell you what: if people skate through this process, it's going to be a REAL disappointment. 1 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Because they're dictatorships? You know, you speak awfully highly of the rule of law. And you might be surprised to know that in theory, I agree with you. In a perfect world, where the playing field is actually level, the rule of law is a wonderful thing. I just think you're fooling yourself if you think there aren't hideous double-standards in our current system that render a complete tear-down necessary. Joe, there are some things here in America, within our government, which are simply "not done"; and the truth is that these things are "not done" because they are "not done", and this circular logic acts as a real protection. This loop was broken by bad actors, and currently the protection against the powerful abusing the rights of the citizens is null. We are on a precipice. If the current administration moves forward, and takes advantage of the same abuses which until recently "simply are not done", then those abuses will be permanently normalized, and our republic is done. However, if our President rejects those abuses as legitimate tools of governance, and instead works to prosecute those responsible through our system of law, holding them accountable to the fullest extent the law permits, then we have a real chance to return to Constitutional norms. I find the later preferable.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Joe, there are some things here in America, within our government, which are simply "not done"; and the truth is that these things are "not done" because they are "not done", and this circular logic acts as a real protection. This loop was broken by bad actors, and currently the protection against the powerful abusing the rights of the citizens is null. We are on a precipice. If the current administration moves forward, and takes advantage of the same abuses which until recently "simply are not done", then those abuses will be permanently normalized, and our republic is done. However, if our President rejects those abuses as legitimate tools of governance, and instead works to prosecute those responsible through our system of law, holding them accountable to the fullest extent the law permits, then we have a real chance to return to Constitutional norms. I find the later preferable. I think the difference between your world-view and mine is that I think that we're already over the precipice. I think that's why we have such a difficult time coming to agreement.
Taro T Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I'm willing to. But I'll tell you what: if people skate through this process, it's going to be a REAL disappointment. It would be. But it is too early to assume they will. We haven't even seen the sealed indictments yet, nor have the FULL weight of what can legally (and ethically) be brought against these people been used. Until we know they'll all walk, I won't assume they all will. And if somehow they do, then our laws will need more revisions than I expect. Because what they did regarding the FISAs was/is already illegal. Edited March 25, 2019 by Taro T
Gary M Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Joe, there are some things here in America, within our government, which are simply "not done"; and the truth is that these things are "not done" because they are "not done", and this circular logic acts as a real protection. This loop was broken by bad actors, and currently the protection against the powerful abusing the rights of the citizens is null. We are on a precipice. If the current administration moves forward, and takes advantage of the same abuses which until recently "simply are not done", then those abuses will be permanently normalized, and our republic is done. However, if our President rejects those abuses as legitimate tools of governance, and instead works to prosecute those responsible through our system of law, holding them accountable to the fullest extent the law permits, then we have a real chance to return to Constitutional norms. I find the later preferable. Would be fun to see the IRS audit Clinton/Pelosi/Obama
Uncle Joe Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Going back to the origins of the Investigation...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gary M said: Would be fun to see the IRS audit Clinton/Pelosi/Obama Sure would. I'm talking FINE toothed comb. All accounts, everywhere. Keep digging through the trusts/foundations/shell corporations. Find it ALL, bring it into the light, and throw them in prison. 1
keepthefaith Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Sure would. I'm talking FINE toothed comb. All accounts, everywhere. Keep digging through the trusts/foundations/shell corporations. Find it ALL, bring it into the light, and throw them in prison. That will take too much time and the media will trash the effort as political revenge. As for Hillary, Trump admin should simply expose in a detailed report how the Obama FBI and DOJ let her off the hook on the email server thing. Then Trump should offer to pardon her. As for DOJ/FBI handling of Trump campaign surveillance and attempted coup, go after that with prosecutions and more firings.
DC Tom Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: UK intel, you say? ... I refuse to accept, then, now, or later, for anyone, that tweeting is an "obstructive action." 3 1
Deranged Rhino Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, DC Tom said: I refuse to accept, then, now, or later, for anyone, that tweeting is an "obstructive action." Right? That's the only "evidence" Mueller provided it seems of collusion - which makes Barr/RR's decision easier to understand. You can't obstruct an investigation into a crime you KNOW you did not commit with a tweet. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: That will take too much time and the media will trash the effort as political revenge. As for Hillary, Trump admin should simply expose in a detailed report how the Obama FBI and DOJ let her off the hook on the email server thing. Then Trump should offer to pardon her. As for DOJ/FBI handling of Trump campaign surveillance and attempted coup, go after that with prosecutions and more firings. 1) the media can twist. I have less than zero care about them, their opinions and their future. They're almost uniformly bad actors. 2) A pardon? Why on Earth would he do that? 3) well, that we can agree upon, at least.
DC Tom Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: Right? That's the only "evidence" Mueller provided it seems of collusion - which makes Barr/RR's decision easier to understand. You can't obstruct an investigation into a crime you KNOW you did not commit with a tweet. No, you can still obstruct an investigation in to something you didn't do. I just refuse to accept that any adult investigator is going to be derailed by 240 characters. It's an obscenely stupid idea that makes Mueller out to be a juvenile incapable of independent thought or action. 2
Deranged Rhino Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, DC Tom said: No, you can still obstruct an investigation in to something you didn't do. I just refuse to accept that any adult investigator is going to be derailed by 240 characters. It's an obscenely stupid idea that makes Mueller out to be a juvenile incapable of independent thought or action. I agree with the first sentence. But saying your innocent on a public platform (let alone Twitter) of something you didn't do cannot be obstruction. But I hope the partisans who want to keep this disinformation campaign alive dig down on that and try to defend it. Just for the laughs.
Keukasmallies Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 Now that the Mueller kerfuffle is in the rear view mirror, former DNC Chairman Ed Rendell proposes a radical course of action for the Democrats. Speaking with a FOX news channel reporter, Rendell said: “We have to get back to doing the business of the people,” Rendell said. “And that’s legislating on infrastructure, immigration, fixing the Affordable Care Act, things like that. That will be the key to whether we will be successful in 2020.” Imagine that, a Democrat proposing something other than obstruction of the efforts of the current administration. Probably a statement taken out of context that he'll walk back in the very near future. 1
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