JaCrispy Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: The hate for Zay on this board is mind boggling. That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board. 1
vincec Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: We need to be careful not to put all resources here I think most of these will be short term signings. They sign 6 or 7 mediocre guys with the hope that 1 or 2 will exceed expectations and become solid starters. Within 2 years the ones that don't will be gone and replace by draft picks and/or new candidates.
Paul Costa Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, vincec said: I think most of these will be short term signings. They sign 6 or 7 mediocre guys with the hope that 1 or 2 will exceed expectations and become solid starters. Within 2 years the ones that don't will be gone and replace by draft picks and/or new candidates. ??????
NoSaint Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: We need to be careful not to put all resources here We still have sooooo many resources to use. Don’t be scared John. We can actually build a real team. You don’t have to pretend to like jokers like you normally do ? 4
CaptnCoke11 Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Little surprised he didn't get more than a one year deal from someone. I haven’t really seen any glaring reviews on him so it’s pretty understandable
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board. Maybe, but he was drafted in the second round. Shoot, I think if you actually look at the numbers, he actually had played as well as most first round WRs. Now, obviously juju was there and we did trade up, so I guess you are right there. It’s an absurd basis to judge Zay, but to each their own.
John from Riverside Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 15 minutes ago, NoSaint said: We still have sooooo many resources to use. Don’t be scared John. We can actually build a real team. You don’t have to pretend to like jokers like you normally do ? What I mean is we do have other needs
NoSaint Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, vincec said: I think most of these will be short term signings. They sign 6 or 7 mediocre guys with the hope that 1 or 2 will exceed expectations and become solid starters. Within 2 years the ones that don't will be gone and replace by draft picks and/or new candidates. And in the meantime- solid depth. This is is the phase where we can have a legion of boom, Marshawn Lynch, multiple pass rushers and still make a dumb trade for Percy Harvin just for a super bowl kick return. or look at those 9ers teams around kaepernick if these 6 guys give us 3 starters and 2 backups we actually have a strong line all season. Top 10 pass rusher and day two picks at WR and RB and we will be pretty stacked and have depth at key spots 53 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: What I mean is we do have other needs What I mean is this in no way precludes addressing them. Edited April 4, 2019 by NoSaint 1
3rdand12 Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said: BADOL, my good man, you are spot on per usual. This Nsekhe character sounds like he has performed at an elite level when given the opportunity. But it also sounds like he needs to play on the left side. Dawkins was ineffective at RT but some say he could be a great LG. But now with McBeane signing this plethora of interior lineman, getting Dawkins and Nsekhe on the same starting 5 is starting to read like an LSAT Logic Game. Good to see you up and about ! if you feel better about Bills line post FA ? then i do as well. Cheers ! Edited April 4, 2019 by 3rdand12 1
TOboy Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: What I mean is we do have other needs We STILL have cap room and 10 picks.
3rdand12 Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: Little surprised he didn't get more than a one year deal from someone. my comment to my work bud who let me this morning. any more to that ? though the fellow might have had some leverage ?
aceman_16 Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said: So in summary he is an above average to elite pass blocker and an average to below average run blocker, yeah? Seems to be the theme for all the new linemen.
MakeBuffaloGreatAgain Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 I think most people are overlooking the biggest difference from this year and last... new O-Line coach. We may actually have a decent chance now! 1 2
Logic Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 44 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board. Your post is kind of a perfect example of the undue Zay hate. You just mentioned Zay Jones in the same breath as Aaron Maybin and EJ Manuel, both of whom were draft busts. Zay Jones is not a bust. He has not yet become an upper echelon NFL WR, that much is clear. But to mention him in the same breath as Aaron Maybin? Zay Jones has 968 yards and 9 TDs across his first two NFL seasons, catching passes from guys like Tyrod Taylor, Nathan Peterman, Derek Anderson, Matt Barkley, and rookie Josh Allen. He had more touchdown receptions last year than AJ Green, Alshon Jeffrey, TY Hilton, Odell Beckham Jr, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, etc. Just for the sake of comparison, Bills all time great Eric Moulds had 573 yards and 2 TDs in his first two seasons, and he was catching passes from Jim Kelly in year 1. Zay's no All Pro at this point. But he's far from a bust, and I think he'll be a #2 WR in the NFL for a long time. 11 5 3
YoloinOhio Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 55 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: That typically happens to players that don’t live up to the draft capital that was spent on them...it’s unfortunate, but happens all the time to various players...just think back to Maybin or EJ...I don’t think fans would be so hard on Zay had the Bills not traded up to get him- especially when there was still better talent at WR on the board. He was a second round pick. They traded up but it was only like a couple spots up in the 2nd round. I never look at him and think about “draft capital”. 1
JaCrispy Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Logic said: Your post is kind of a perfect example of the undue Zay hate. You just mentioned Zay Jones in the same breath as Aaron Maybin and EJ Manuel, both of whom were draft busts. Zay Jones is not a bust. He has not yet become an upper echelon NFL WR, that much is clear. But to mention him in the same breath as Aaron Maybin? Zay Jones has 968 yards and 9 TDs across his first two NFL seasons, catching passes from guys like Tyrod Taylor, Nathan Peterman, Derek Anderson, Matt Barkley, and rookie Josh Allen. He had more touchdown receptions last year than AJ Green, Alshon Jeffrey, TY Hilton, Odell Beckham Jr, Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, etc. Just for the sake of comparison, Bills all time great Eric Moulds had 573 yards and 2 TDs in his first two seasons, and he was catching passes from Jim Kelly in year 1. Zay's no All Pro at this point. But he's far from a bust, and I think he'll be a #2 WR in the NFL for a long time. I don’t hate Zay by any stretch...I just don’t think he is a reliable player for the Bills at this point, which is somewhat of a disappointment, given the hype surrounding him coming out of college. You list his stats as a positive, and I agree...however, I can’t help but wonder how much more production there could have been with a more sure handed receiver. I think people see Robert Foster, along with the receivers added in FA, and potentially another in the draft, and it becomes difficult to see a role for Zay in a receiver room that is starting to fill up quickly. Edited April 4, 2019 by JaCrispy 1
njbuff Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I don’t hate Zay by any stretch...I just don’t think he is a reliable player for the Bills at this point, which is somewhat of a disappointment, given the hype surrounding him coming out of college. You list his stats as a positive, and I agree...however, I can’t help but wonder how much more production there could have been with a more sure handed receiver. I think people see Robert Foster, along with the receivers added in FA, and potentially another in the draft, and it becomes difficult to see a role for Zay in a receiver room that is starting to fill up quickly. I don't know how the Bills feel about Jones, but I think it is on the table that he might not be a Bill on opening day, but for us................ we fans have the patience of rattlesnakes when it comes to player development. A lot of young WR's take time to develop and Jones did show signs of improvement the second half of the season. Remember, Eric Moulds was MIA his first two years in the NFL. 2
PIZ Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 27 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He was a second round pick. They traded up but it was only like a couple spots up in the 2nd round. I never look at him and think about “draft capital”. (Bills receive): (Zay Jones) » 2017 second-round pick (No. 37): Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina » 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 149) -- traded to Falcons (Rams receive): » 2017 second-round pick (No. 44): Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama » 2017 third-round pick (No. 91): John Johnson, S, Boston College --------------------------------------------------------- (Bills receive): (Dion Dawkins) » 2017 second-round pick (No. 63): Dion Dawkins, OG, Temple (Falcons receive): » 2017 third-round pick (No. 75): Duke Riley, LB, LSU » 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 149): Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State » 2017 fifth-round pick (No. 156): Brian Hill, RB, Wyoming
Dkollidas Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 Really happy with this signing. They now have Teller, Feliciano Long, Spain, Sirles, and Boettger as their guards. Long can slide to center in a pinch as well which is valuable. makes me think if they do draft offensive linemen, it’ll be tackles for sure (or guys who they view as tackles with positional flexibility). 2
Logic Posted April 4, 2019 Posted April 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dkollidas said: Really happy with this signing. They now have Teller, Feliciano Long, Spain, Sirles, and Boettger as their guards. Long can slide to center in a pinch as well which is valuable. makes me think if they do draft offensive linemen, it’ll be tackles for sure (or guys who they view as tackles with positional flexibility). Agreed. I don't see any room for a rookie guard at this point. Among the guys you mentioned, they break down into three pairs for me: Young, developing guys: Boettger, Teller Versatile interior swing backups: Feliciano, Sirles Experienced starters, probable early advantage in starting competition: Spain, Long If they add a draftee to the o-line, as you said, it seems likely that it will be a tackle. And frankly, I'm not sold on Nsekhe and Waddle as fixes at that position. I'd like them to spend a 2nd or 3rd on a tackle.
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