Buffalo03 Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Since the onside kick has become a near impossibility for the kicking team to recover, unless it's a surprise onside. They need to put in a rule that eliminates the onside kick and replace it with a 4th and 15. If a team scores they would have the option of kicking the ball off or having a 4th and 15 at their own 35 yard line. If they get the first down the drive keeps going like normal. If they fall short, the other team takes over where they missed from. They can even make it more interesting and make it to where each team only gets two 4th and 15's a game. This would be way better than doing an onside kick which has become nearly impossible for the kicking team to recover. Would anyone be on board with this? It's actually something Steve Tasker said that the NFL Competition committee has had discussions about in the past Edited March 22, 2019 by Buffalo03 4
klos63 Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 I could only imagine the nightmare that would occur when the officials make crappy calls on the 4th and 15's. 1 3
PetermansRedemption Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Absolutely needs to happen. The onside kick is completely pointless now. It has been completely neutered by the NFL. You are better off kicking it deep and hoping to force a fumble. In light of that, the NFL must adopt a new policy to keep games somewhat interesting in the end. This is that policy, this is the solution. Only a matter of time before it passes IMO.
Bangarang Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Get rid of kickoffs. Get rid of punting. Get rid of divisions. 16 team conferences with the best 6 records from each going to the playoffs. I’m ready for my commissioner’s check now. Edited March 22, 2019 by Bangarang 1
PetermansRedemption Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Just now, klos63 said: I could only imagine the nightmare that would occur when the officials make crappy calls on the 4th and 15's. Couple this rule change with allowing coaches to challenge everything.
PetermansRedemption Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Just now, Augie said: Why? Because the onside kick has become a near 0% proposition and it is bad for business to not have some late game comebacks. 1
Augie Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Just now, Bills2ref said: Because the onside kick has become a near 0% proposition and it is bad for business to not have some late game comebacks. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’m not buying it. 5 1
frostbitmic Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Restore the onsides kick to the way it used to be. 9
Buffalo03 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, klos63 said: I could only imagine the nightmare that would occur when the officials make crappy calls on the 4th and 15's. Well they could just simply make it a do over instead of penalizing for the yardage on that one play. Or move them to the spot of the foul if it's a pass interference but they still only have one chance to get a first down after the call is made
PetermansRedemption Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) To elaborate more on why this has to happen. The historical fumble rate for kickoffs is 3.1%. Last year onside kicks were converted at a 7.5% success rate. Down from a 21.7% success rate the year before. Right now, it is nearly a better proposition to kick it deep and try to force a fumble! 4th and 10 conversion percentages hover around 20-30%. 4th and 15 conversion percentage is 10-20%. Therefore, by eliminating the onside kick and allowing a 4th and 15 try you are really just going back to pre-neutered onside kick numbers. Albeit a much safer alternative. 4 minutes ago, Augie said: Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’m not buying it. 5 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: Restore the onsides kick to the way it used to be. Unfortunately I don’t think the NFL will consider that with today’s emphasis on player safety. Hence the alternatives start to fly. This one is actually a good alternative. Edited March 22, 2019 by Bills2ref 1
nedboy7 Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Why not eliminate scoring. That way eneyone is a winner. 1
Augie Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Is the surprise onside kick eliminated? I like that that is an option. Even in a Super Bowl! That was a classic and ballsy moment. 1 1
Mark80 Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) From a quick search here are some numbers I found. Onside kick success % prior to rule changes in 2018 - 12% (10 year sample) Onside kick success % in 2018 - 7.7% Cant find distinction between surprise ones and expected ones though, so I think those numbers include both. Success rate of 4th and 15 (from 2014 study) - 19%. So, from these limited resources, it seems a 4th and 15 option would be too much of a jump in success rate IMO. Not sure how to get it closer to the 10-15% range, but IMO that's where the success rate should lie. Edited March 22, 2019 by Mark80 2
Augie Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bills2ref said: Because the onside kick has become a near 0% proposition and it is bad for business to not have some late game comebacks. I think 7.5% is a lot more than zero, and doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me. It’s supposed to be a long shot. 1 1
Gugny Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Here's my idea: Make every NFL player sign a piece of paper that states, "I will not sue the NFL if I am injured while playing, or suffer any long-term negative health-related effects of playing after I exit the league." Then let them play the ***** game if they so choose. The way it's supposed to be played. 1
Buffalo03 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Augie said: Is the surprise onside kick eliminated? I like that that is an option. Even in a Super Bowl! That was a classic and ballsy moment. No a surprise onside could still apply with this option but it would eliminate onside kicks in the obvious situations and replace them with a 4th and 15 instead
Mark80 Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: Here's my idea: Make every NFL player sign a piece of paper that states, "I will not sue the NFL if I am injured while playing, or suffer any long-term negative health-related effects of playing after I exit the league." Then let them play the ***** game if they so choose. The way it's supposed to be played. Despite what one would expect, it is very difficult to sign away completely your rights to sue. Especially in a situation where you would be forced to sign something in order to retain your livelihood.
PetermansRedemption Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Augie said: I think 7.5% is a lot more than zero, and doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me. It’s supposed to be a long shot. The 7.5% is somewhat misleading because of how little it was attempted. There were a grand total of 4 successful attempts last season. That number is far too low. By my calculation 256 regular season games were played. That means an onside kick was converted in 1.5% of NFL games last season.
Buffalo03 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Augie said: I think 7.5% is a lot more than zero, and doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me. It’s supposed to be a long shot. A 4th and 15 while not as hard to convert as an onside kick, is pretty much a long shot also
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