Tipster19 Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 I’m going to a hypothetical scenario to express my point. I realize that contracts can be manipulated so the length of them may not really come into play. Beane signed a bunch of players this off season and in FA. They range anywheres from 1-4 years, I think only 1 or 2 was for 4 years (Morse & Beasley?) but most were shorter term. Here’s the hypothetical, let’s say the Bills were to trade for Stefon Diggs (current contract is for 5 years that he signed last year) and either the Bills keep that contract or re-sign him for a new 4 year deal and then were to draft someone like K’Neal Harry either late 1st rd or in the 2nd rd, would that be a way of putting a competitive team on the field presently while grooming the future replacement? I’m not saying that Harry would be the direct replacement for Diggs but I would have to think that Diggs would be the #1 WR. John Brown is 29 years old and was signed to a 3 year contract and his forte is speed. While if Brown played out his contract he’d be one side or the other of 32 years old and one would have to expect his speed to diminish. Enter Harry. He could be the Peerless to Eric Moulds type of compliment. In a couple of years after that could Harry then be the replacement for Diggs? This is just not regulated to the WR Corp neither. Beane seemed to put a lot of 1 or 2 year contracts out there as well in other position groups. Is this a way of keeping a steady stream of good players flowing all the while of managing the salary cap between veteran and rookie contracts?
BuffaloBillies Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 Just draft. We have a good mix and pipeline now.
Rc2catch Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 Talent can come from anywhere. Foster could be better than Diggs? Not probable but we’ve seen weirder things happen in the league. If Allen is going to be a great quarterback in this league he will elevate some of these receivers and make them look pretty elite. The group we have right now is perfectly fine, it’s all on Allen. Doesn’t matter who or how many weapons you get him, if he can only make one read and run, or make a 3 step drop and have instant pressure in his face causing him to run then we’ll never win much or look very good on offense. If he reads the field and gets some time in the pocket to make throws this offense can be quite good with the current pieces right now, not even including talent added from the draft. There is enough talent and weapons for this offense to be successful now, let’s watch and see if Allen can use them effectively 2
Chandler#81 Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 The only person I know who can accurately foretell the future is Doc Brown, but he & Marty haven’t been seen since 1885.. For me, no more skill positions, sans RB in the Draft. Build up the interiors. I don’t expect us to Draft 10 players as Beane will likely try to trade multiple late round picks to move up -hopefully for another 3rd Rounder. 3 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: The only person I know who can accurately foretell the future is Doc Brown, but he & Marty haven’t been seen since 1885.. For me, no more skill positions, sans RB in the Draft. Build up the interiors. I don’t expect us to Draft 10 players as Beane will likely try to trade multiple late round picks to move up -hopefully for another 3rd Rounder. The two TE’s on the roster now are not good. They need to add a TE in round 1 or 2. I agree they will not use all 10 picks but hopefully they trade a few to move up in 2020 draft. I think the general rule is trading back a year and you go up a round.
Chandler#81 Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 I disagree. Croom showed progress and growth. The FA isn’t worse than Clay and has a higher ceiling. I expect us to Draft one, but I’d be surprised if it’s earlier than Rd 3. 1
billsfan1959 Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: The only person I know who can accurately foretell the future is Doc Brown, but he & Marty haven’t been seen since 1885.. For me, no more skill positions, sans RB in the Draft. Build up the interiors. I don’t expect us to Draft 10 players as Beane will likely try to trade multiple late round picks to move up -hopefully for another 3rd Rounder. Agree. Strong lines on both sides of the ball make the rest of the team better. 1
Rochesterfan Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Tipster19 said: I’m going to a hypothetical scenario to express my point. I realize that contracts can be manipulated so the length of them may not really come into play. Beane signed a bunch of players this off season and in FA. They range anywheres from 1-4 years, I think only 1 or 2 was for 4 years (Morse & Beasley?) but most were shorter term. Here’s the hypothetical, let’s say the Bills were to trade for Stefon Diggs (current contract is for 5 years that he signed last year) and either the Bills keep that contract or re-sign him for a new 4 year deal and then were to draft someone like K’Neal Harry either late 1st rd or in the 2nd rd, would that be a way of putting a competitive team on the field presently while grooming the future replacement? I’m not saying that Harry would be the direct replacement for Diggs but I would have to think that Diggs would be the #1 WR. John Brown is 29 years old and was signed to a 3 year contract and his forte is speed. While if Brown played out his contract he’d be one side or the other of 32 years old and one would have to expect his speed to diminish. Enter Harry. He could be the Peerless to Eric Moulds type of compliment. In a couple of years after that could Harry then be the replacement for Diggs? This is just not regulated to the WR Corp neither. Beane seemed to put a lot of 1 or 2 year contracts out there as well in other position groups. Is this a way of keeping a steady stream of good players flowing all the while of managing the salary cap between veteran and rookie contracts? I think Beane will acquire talent in a variety of ways, but the long term future of the team comes via drafting. I think you see a lot of 1 and 2 year contracts to starting filling the talent pipeline (priming the pump) so to speak. The hope then becomes some of this crop of FAs and players gets replaced by draft picks and you can let them walk via FA (rather than having to cut them) allowing you to lose more than you gain and maybe getting additional free picks. I do not think many FAs (probably Morse) are in the true long term plans, but if some developed- then you retain them or let them walk and have a replacement on hand via the draft. Teams can turn around quickly, but to sustain the plan you need to have a winning QB, stability in the Front Office, and a steady stream of replacement level players coming via the draft. Then you can be a bit of a chooser in FA and who to retain and ensure the talent level stays up with money left to spend for big needs. 1
Tipster19 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: I think Beane will acquire talent in a variety of ways, but the long term future of the team comes via drafting. I think you see a lot of 1 and 2 year contracts to starting filling the talent pipeline (priming the pump) so to speak. The hope then becomes some of this crop of FAs and players gets replaced by draft picks and you can let them walk via FA (rather than having to cut them) allowing you to lose more than you gain and maybe getting additional free picks. I do not think many FAs (probably Morse) are in the true long term plans, but if some developed- then you retain them or let them walk and have a replacement on hand via the draft. Teams can turn around quickly, but to sustain the plan you need to have a winning QB, stability in the Front Office, and a steady stream of replacement level players coming via the draft. Then you can be a bit of a chooser in FA and who to retain and ensure the talent level stays up with money left to spend for big needs. Thanks for a great response. That is what I was thinking and if this blueprint is somewhat accurate then one might be to expect what Beane may be thinking when it comes to the draft and FA.
formerlyofCtown Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Talent can come from anywhere. Foster could be better than Diggs? Not probable but we’ve seen weirder things happen in the league. If Allen is going to be a great quarterback in this league he will elevate some of these receivers and make them look pretty elite. The group we have right now is perfectly fine, it’s all on Allen. Doesn’t matter who or how many weapons you get him, if he can only make one read and run, or make a 3 step drop and have instant pressure in his face causing him to run then we’ll never win much or look very good on offense. If he reads the field and gets some time in the pocket to make throws this offense can be quite good with the current pieces right now, not even including talent added from the draft. There is enough talent and weapons for this offense to be successful now, let’s watch and see if Allen can use them effectively He out performed him for the last 7 games last season.
Rc2catch Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: He out performed him for the last 7 games last season. That’s 7 games though. Foster came out of nowhere but diggs has tape for a few seasons sustaining top receiver numbers. Can’t really compare the two yet.
Simon Says Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 13 hours ago, Tipster19 said: I’m going to a hypothetical scenario to express my point. I realize that contracts can be manipulated so the length of them may not really come into play. Beane signed a bunch of players this off season and in FA. They range anywheres from 1-4 years, I think only 1 or 2 was for 4 years (Morse & Beasley?) but most were shorter term. Here’s the hypothetical, let’s say the Bills were to trade for Stefon Diggs (current contract is for 5 years that he signed last year) and either the Bills keep that contract or re-sign him for a new 4 year deal and then were to draft someone like K’Neal Harry either late 1st rd or in the 2nd rd, would that be a way of putting a competitive team on the field presently while grooming the future replacement? I’m not saying that Harry would be the direct replacement for Diggs but I would have to think that Diggs would be the #1 WR. John Brown is 29 years old and was signed to a 3 year contract and his forte is speed. While if Brown played out his contract he’d be one side or the other of 32 years old and one would have to expect his speed to diminish. Enter Harry. He could be the Peerless to Eric Moulds type of compliment. In a couple of years after that could Harry then be the replacement for Diggs? This is just not regulated to the WR Corp neither. Beane seemed to put a lot of 1 or 2 year contracts out there as well in other position groups. Is this a way of keeping a steady stream of good players flowing all the while of managing the salary cap between veteran and rookie contracts? Tipster; check out "Spotrac" or " Over the Cap" to see contract details. I think Bills have an "out" with Brown after 2019; possible both he and Diggs 'salaries are only guaranteed for 2019 (I could be wrong). Cutting a guy before the contract expires can cause a significant dead cap hit. 1
formerlyofCtown Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Rc2catch said: That’s 7 games though. Foster came out of nowhere but diggs has tape for a few seasons sustaining top receiver numbers. Can’t really compare the two yet. You said its very unlikely and Im saying for the last 7 games he did. That kinda shoots your comment all to hell. Will that be the case this season? I dont know, but for you to say that it is not probable that he will do something he has already done is probably not the best statement.
Rc2catch Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 30 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: You said its very unlikely and Im saying for the last 7 games he did. That kinda shoots your comment all to hell. Will that be the case this season? I dont know, but for you to say that it is not probable that he will do something he has already done is probably not the best statement. I’ll stand by it. We can gladly revisit and compare their numbers by the end of next season. 16 games not 7. Or even use fosters last 7 games and first 9 this year. Lots of players can flash and flame out. The whole point of the thread was adding receiving weapons and diggs name was mentioned as a trade target, regardless of 7 games nobody in the entire world would take foster over diggs and outperforming someone for 7 games doesn’t mean nothing. Foster has to do it for an entire season plain and simple
formerlyofCtown Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Rc2catch said: I’ll stand by it. We can gladly revisit and compare their numbers by the end of next season. 16 games not 7. Or even use fosters last 7 games and first 9 this year. Lots of players can flash and flame out. The whole point of the thread was adding receiving weapons and diggs name was mentioned as a trade target, regardless of 7 games nobody in the entire world would take foster over diggs and outperforming someone for 7 games doesn’t mean nothing. Foster has to do it for an entire season plain and simple What you are saying now is pretty irrelevant. 1- You acknowledge that Foster has already played at that level When you said it wasnt probable. 2- The conversation isnt about whether Foster has done it for a full season. You said that apples cant be green. I showed you a green apple, yet you still say apples cant be green. There is no revisiting, youve already been proven wrong. (I guess if that is how you want to look at it). Now if you have changed it to he hasnt maintaned it for a season then we will know the answer to that at the end of the season. Im pretty sure I already know the answer at 20 yards per catch. 1
jletha Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Seems like a bizarre strategy. It seems like you want to draft a WR in the first and then almost stash him on the roster until Brown's contract runs out? Theres no farm system in the NFL though. If you draft a guy in the first you dont wait 3 years for him to turn into peerless price, you would want more immediate production. At this point signing Diggs and then drafting a WR in the first or second would put a lot of players at WR going into camp. Obviously competition is good but I think that capital is better used on defense and other offensive positions like O-line and TE that are more immediate needs Edited March 20, 2019 by jletha
SouthNYfan Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 12 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: I disagree. Croom showed progress and growth. The FA isn’t worse than Clay and has a higher ceiling. I expect us to Draft one, but I’d be surprised if it’s earlier than Rd 3. That's a pretty low bar, to be fair. I would like hockenson though because I touch he's going to be a really good NFL player, or a wr playmaker Other than that I'm with you, and wouldn't be too upset if we didn't go with hock/wr up front. 1
Turk71 Posted March 20, 2019 Posted March 20, 2019 I think all of the contracts given out have guaranteed $ for only a year or 2 with team options after that if it's good, or easy outs if not. 1
SouthNYfan Posted March 21, 2019 Posted March 21, 2019 14 hours ago, Turk71 said: I think all of the contracts given out have guaranteed $ for only a year or 2 with team options after that if it's good, or easy outs if not. That's what I was thinking too. Most of them are 2-4 year deals, frontloaded, with outs after the second year if things aren't working out
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