Kelly the Dog Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I think we all tend to misperceive what McBeane hae been doing. Beane tells us and we keep forgetting. YOU BUILD YOUR TEAM THROUGH THE DRAFT, AND YOU FILL HOLES IN FREE AGENCY. Benjamin and Boldin and Matthews and Maclin and Cotchery all were attempts to fill holes through free agency (or trades). If they find a keeper in the process, great, but that isn't their objective. So you can't conclude that McBeane thought any of those guys were good. They were guys they hoped would fill holes. There is not a chance that GMs sign players they don't think are pretty good. You don't trade a 3 unless you think he is very good. Do you really think that Beane or McDermott think Wyatt Teller is better than Morse? (or even Feliciano or Long, or Spain they just brought in?). Do they think Zay Jones is better than Brown or Beasley?
Alphadawg7 Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Good post, except McBeane thought Kelvin Benjamin was a #1 WR. And Boldin and Matthews and Maclin and Cotchery were good, and did nothing to keep Sammy, Woods and Goodwin. Except what you just said is wrong. Beane was not a member of the Bills when Goodwin and Woods left. And lets not pretend here that anyone on TSW was begging for Goodwin to stay. I was one of the very few, very few, that kept saying Goodwin can play and be nice to keep him if we can. Most couldn't wait for him to leave. Woods wanted to go elsewhere, he was a FA, that his choice. So lets not also pretend that we "got rid of him" like so many say. And he had the opportunity to go home and play in LA in his college stadium. Watkins was as good as gone. They knew what his market would be and had not plans to pay it, especially knowing full well they needed to clean out the cap first. Beane said this day 1 on the job and said it would take 2 years. You don't repair the cap by giving an absurd contract to a WR who hasn't played to that level ever in his career. Not only did he avoid a bad contract, he netted a player that helped us break the playoff streak and a 2nd round pick that helped us rebuild the foundation of this team and land both Allen and Edmunds. I disagreed with the Sammy move at the time as I didn't see the future implications, but it was actually a brilliant move by Beane and I was wrong to question it. They traded Darby to get the draft pick and still managed to get a decent WR back to help deal with the Watkins loss. Not Beanes fault he got hurt and couldn't help the team once he arrived here. Boldin was brought in as a cheap option to help be a vet but he just had nothing left. Again cap reasons made that move. KB was ONLY traded for because they were surprised to see McD lead what was supposed to be a bad team into playoff contention. With a chance to snap 17 years of playoff drought, Beane was aggressive and went got help mid season when most GM's would not have had the moxy to do that. And we ONLY made the playoffs because of that trade, without KB we lose the snow game easily and we are sitting on the streak still so it worked. Then Beane not afraid to admit he isn't working out made the move to cut him. Its funny...the plan has mostly been obvious since the last draft and fans still don't get it. They still twist these moves to be something they were not. None of those WR moves were incorrect, none of them were about a long term solution to the WR room. And its all proven out perfectly and puts us where we are today. Yet with Beane telling you what he is doing, then actually doing exactly what he said he would do...people still make the past into some other false narrative. I don't get why this is so hard for so many to process.
colin Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 at first, i was 50/50. then, i was on board. now, i'm worried he goes at 6 to the giants. dabo loves multiple formations, and running the same play out of different looks, and different plays out of the same look. DK, Brown (doesn't he have a nick name like smokey or something for his speed?), and our young bama speedster puts a ton of speed on the field. beez replacing one of them, maybe our CFL pick up too, and you have lots of combos that can be run. the best part of all of that is, if you look at the pats, most of their success comes pre snap because they see a match up problem, and then later on they use that to exploit people trying to cover up the match up problem that burned them before. this allows our young qb to get some completions and easy yards and sets up the over the top KO which he was gifted by God to be just about the best at. aside from junk run game and zero protection, we had an issue of ZERO WR'S BEING A MATCH UP PROBLEM ANYWHERE! DK on the quick slant, beez underneath, and two other fireball wr's running around can let us dictate to the D instead of hoping. i'm all in!!
Kelly the Dog Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Except what you just said is wrong. Beane was not a member of the Bills when Goodwin and Woods left. And lets not pretend here that anyone on TSW was begging for Goodwin to stay. I was one of the very few, very few, that kept saying Goodwin can play and be nice to keep him if we can. Most couldn't wait for him to leave. Woods wanted to go elsewhere, he was a FA, that his choice. So lets not also pretend that we "got rid of him" like so many say. And he had the opportunity to go home and play in LA in his college stadium. Watkins was as good as gone. They knew what his market would be and had not plans to pay it, especially knowing full well they needed to clean out the cap first. Beane said this day 1 on the job and said it would take 2 years. You don't repair the cap by giving an absurd contract to a WR who hasn't played to that level ever in his career. Not only did he avoid a bad contract, he netted a player that helped us break the playoff streak and a 2nd round pick that helped us rebuild the foundation of this team and land both Allen and Edmunds. I disagreed with the Sammy move at the time as I didn't see the future implications, but it was actually a brilliant move by Beane and I was wrong to question it. They traded Darby to get the draft pick and still managed to get a decent WR back to help deal with the Watkins loss. Not Beanes fault he got hurt and couldn't help the team once he arrived here. Boldin was brought in as a cheap option to help be a vet but he just had nothing left. Again cap reasons made that move. KB was ONLY traded for because they were surprised to see McD lead what was supposed to be a bad team into playoff contention. With a chance to snap 17 years of playoff drought, Beane was aggressive and went got help mid season when most GM's would not have had the moxy to do that. And we ONLY made the playoffs because of that trade, without KB we lose the snow game easily and we are sitting on the streak still so it worked. Then Beane not afraid to admit he isn't working out made the move to cut him. Its funny...the plan has mostly been obvious since the last draft and fans still don't get it. They still twist these moves to be something they were not. None of those WR moves were incorrect, none of them were about a long term solution to the WR room. And its all proven out perfectly and puts us where we are today. Yet with Beane telling you what he is doing, then actually doing exactly what he said he would do...people still make the past into some other false narrative. I don't get why this is so hard for so many to process. I said they did nothing to keep any of the three. That is a fact. I would have tried to keep all three, hoping to keep two and yes, I know how much that would have cost. A little more than Brown and Beasley (unless the two were Woods and Sammy and it still would be worth it. Allen would kill it with those two. Any two of those three). And I know all about Woods and LA, I live here, too. I also said, as Shaw did, McBeane, as in McDermott and Beane. As of right now, they both have an abysmal record of selecting offensive players. I like the signings of Brown and Beasley and they have a chance to do well. We'll see who they draft. I totally agree with you on Zay and McDermott could EASILY start him (for no good reason) over Foster. 1
Shaw66 Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: There is not a chance that GMs sign players they don't think are pretty good. You don't trade a 3 unless you think he is very good. Do you really think that Beane or McDermott think Wyatt Teller is better than Morse? (or even Feliciano or Long, or Spain they just brought in?). Do they think Zay Jones is better than Brown or Beasley? No they don't think Zay is better than Beasley. Zay isn't their guy. But they didn't sign Beasley because the they think he is the answer. They signed him because they have a hole at receiver and they think he can fill it until they draft the guy they want. That's the EXACT same reason they signed Cotchery and Boldin. Same with Matthews and Maclin. And it's the same with Brown. If he is with the Bills five years from now, great, but I think if Beane were frank with you, he would tell you he doesn't expect Brown to be on the team. He expects Brown will lose his job to someone the Bills draft or sign as an undrafted free agent. Like Foster. I don't know why people have so much trouble internalizing what Beane says. He is NOT looking for answers in free agency. He is looking for stopgaps. Morse, I will grant you, is the exception. 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: As of right now, they both have an abysmal record of selecting offensive players. I think what McBeane expect of themselves is to have a good record drafting and signing rookies. They are not expecting to build a team with free agents. Would they like to have done better on their free agents? Sure. But other than Morse, is their a free agent they've really invested in? It simply is not their philosophy. 1
Yav Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 20 minutes ago, wppete said: I’ve been going back and forth on who I want at #9. Ed Oliver Rashan Gary DK Metcalf TJ Hockenson. If the Bills go WR I hope it's N'Keal Harry. He's the big body WR the Bills could use and his ability to produce YAC is just amazing then add in his return ability. I think the Bills will go with Ed Oliver or Hockenson. I'll be happy as long as they pass on DK. Nothing about him impresses me. 1
eball Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: No they don't think Zay is better than Beasley. Zay isn't their guy. But they didn't sign Beasley because the they think he is the answer. They signed him because they have a hole at receiver and they think he can fill it until they draft the guy they want. That's the EXACT same reason they signed Cotchery and Boldin. Same with Matthews and Maclin. And it's the same with Brown. If he is with the Bills five years from now, great, but I think if Beane were frank with you, he would tell you he doesn't expect Brown to be on the team. He expects Brown will lose his job to someone the Bills draft or sign as an undrafted free agent. Like Foster. I don't know why people have so much trouble internalizing what Beane says. He is NOT looking for answers in free agency. He is looking for stopgaps. Morse, I will grant you, is the exception. I think what McBeane expect of themselves is to have a good record drafting and signing rookies. They are not expecting to build a team with free agents. Would they like to have done better on their free agents? Sure. But other than Morse, is their a free agent they've really invested in? It simply is not their philosophy. 2018 offseason? I completely agree. This offseason? Not so much. Obviously Morse -- which you concede. But when you bring in a free agent I don't think you're EVER banking on him being here in five years. You hope that for players you draft and for superstars. The entire rest of the roster undergoes turnover within a five year timeframe. I think you can tell what Beane is thinking by looking at the contracts. If it's a one-year deal or it's structured so that the Bills can get out relatively painlessly then it's a stopgap or "prove it" contract. If it's three years or more he's hoping they become part of the core of the roster. I think the Bills expect Brown and Beasley to be here for several seasons.
BADOLBILZ Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: No they don't think Zay is better than Beasley. Zay isn't their guy. But they didn't sign Beasley because the they think he is the answer. They signed him because they have a hole at receiver and they think he can fill it until they draft the guy they want. McDermott drafted Zay.......so he was his guy at one point so stop with the nonsense. And Beasley is not a one year commitment like most of the other deals.......they paid him like a fixture for the next few seasons.........which is about as far as they can look ahead whether drafting or UFA.
billspro Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 35 minutes ago, wppete said: I’ve been going back and forth on who I want at #9. Ed Oliver Rashan Gary DK Metcalf TJ Hockenson. Metcalf seems to be as controversial as Allen last year. Would not surprise me at all if he is our guy.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: I said they did nothing to keep any of the three. That is a fact. I would have tried to keep all three, hoping to keep two and yes, I know how much that would have cost. A little more than Brown and Beasley (unless the two were Woods and Sammy and it still would be worth it. Allen would kill it with those two. Any two of those three). And I know all about Woods and LA, I live here, too. I also said, as Shaw did, McBeane, as in McDermott and Beane. As of right now, they both have an abysmal record of selecting offensive players. I like the signings of Brown and Beasley and they have a chance to do well. We'll see who they draft. I totally agree with you on Zay and McDermott could EASILY start him (for no good reason) over Foster. WRONG again. What part of Woods and Goodwin left months before Beane was a Bill is confusing here? I don't get why this is so hard for you, and others quite frankly, to understand. Woods has said he wanted to go home too...he was not resigning here. Beane had nothing to do with them leaving. Sorry, but just about everything you have said regarding the WR stuff is not only wrong, but completely unfactual. I have no issue if you remain skeptical in their ability to rebuild the WR room, but your past recollection has no truth to it.
OrtonHearsaWho Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Yav said: If the Bills go WR I hope it's N'Keal Harry. He's the big body WR the Bills could use and his ability to produce YAC is just amazing then add in his return ability. I think the Bills will go with Ed Oliver or Hockenson. I'll be happy as long as they pass on DK. Nothing about him impresses me. I like N'Keal a lot too, just not at 9. He seems to be getting a 2nd round grade lately and if we took him in the 2nd I'm really happy. He and DK seem to have the same concerns (agility/shiftiness) and I think they end up having the same floor but I think DK has the higher ceiling. I'd be happy with either depending on where they are drafted.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: WRONG again. What part of Woods and Goodwin left months before Beane was a Bill is confusing here? I don't get why this is so hard for you, and others quite frankly, to understand. Woods has said he wanted to go home too...he was not resigning here. Beane had nothing to do with them leaving. Sorry, but just about everything you have said regarding the WR stuff is not only wrong, but completely unfactual. I have no issue if you remain skeptical in their ability to rebuild the WR room, but your past recollection has no truth to it. McBeane includes McDermott. It's the Mc part. How hard is that to understand.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: McBeane includes McDermott. It's the Mc part. How hard is that to understand. Do you know how stupid that is? To include any person into a period that did not exist? LMAO. I understand just fine what you mean by McBeane. Its just false, fake news, inaccurate, ridiculous and every other negative word I can think about without getting flagged to include Beane into a period of the Bills timeline while he was employed by the Carolina Panthers.
LABILLBACKER Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 3 hours ago, wppete said: I’ve been going back and forth on who I want at #9. Ed Oliver Rashan Gary DK Metcalf TJ Hockenson. I think Beane will rule out Gary. He's too light. It will 100% come down to Oliver, Hock or Metcalf. And probably in that order. 2
Solomon Grundy Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 10:40 PM, RocCityRoller said: I watched the video. I'm not a DK Metcalf fan at all. His drops, lack of concentration, limited route tree, lack of lateral ability, injuries, and lack of production make me wary. I don't want him at 9 with a deep DL/Edge/TE/WR draft. In a weaker draft, yes. At #20 yes. But this draft has so much top end D-line/ Edge/ TE talent in the draft get a producer at #9. Plenty of good WR will be there @41. Still a fail at #9 IMO. At TE, Irv Smith is as good/better than the Iowa duo and can be had later in the draft. DL is just as deep and like I said earlier, J. Simmons who was projected as a top 5 talent before ACL tear can probably be had later. There is no WR with the size, speed, work ethic and dedication combo like Metcalf. He'd be a perfect addition to an already improved receiver group.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: Do you know how stupid that is? To include any person into a period that did not exist? LMAO. I understand just fine what you mean by McBeane. Its just false, fake news, inaccurate, ridiculous and every other negative word I can think about without getting flagged to include Beane into a period of the Bills timeline while he was employed by the Carolina Panthers. The reason they are called McBeane is they are basically the same guy. Whether one makes a decision or both. They came from the same place, vacation together, think the same. When someone says McBeane on this site, which is approximately 535,883 times it’s one or the other or both. Beane traded Sammy. They both acquired Benjamin. McDermott didn’t try to keep Woods or Goodwin and drafted Jones but a lot of folks thought Beane was already on his way and was communicating, especially with Whaley already out the door. If Beane was there the exact same thing would have happened. They wanted individually and collectively to get rid of almost everyone and start over.
Logic Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 AJ Brown was the better college WR and will be the better pro receiver. DK Metcalf is just Stephen Hill to me. 2
Solomon Grundy Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, wppete said: Is that a Bills coach he's running those drills against? Metcalf and Brown has scheduled visits with Bills per Bleacher Report Edited March 29, 2019 by the skycap
ghostwriter Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 I don't want him. Out of all the prospects I see Bills fans gushing over, he's my least favorite. I'm not proclaiming myself to be some draft expert, I'm just a lowly every day fan. No thank you. 2
Alphadawg7 Posted March 29, 2019 Posted March 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: The reason they are called McBeane is they are basically the same guy. Whether one makes a decision or both. They came from the same place, vacation together, think the same. When someone says McBeane on this site, which is approximately 535,883 times it’s one or the other or both. Beane traded Sammy. They both acquired Benjamin. McDermott didn’t try to keep Woods or Goodwin and drafted Jones but a lot of folks thought Beane was already on his way and was communicating, especially with Whaley already out the door. If Beane was there the exact same thing would have happened. They wanted individually and collectively to get rid of almost everyone and start over. No they are not. Man some people on this board have some pretty outlandish theories.
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