How Much Did The Bills Actually Improve the OL? PFF Rankings 2018 vs. 2019 Comparison

[BuffaloBill]

5 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

These rankings show an addition of two above average linemen. We now have three instead of one. 

 

According to these rankings. 

 

That's improvement. And maybe someone else develops under new coaching, with better linemates? Not an unreasonable projection...

 

Three out if five above average starters.  Also, without the injury in 2017 Spencer long was the 10th rated center so he played above average at arguably a harder position.  This could mean 4 out of 5 above average starters.  Plus, who knows how much upside Teller has and who the Bills pick up in the draft.

[fansince88]

4 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Two more AA starters. Looks good to me.

 

Where's Teller?

 

Teller was 56.1 - Average

And that 5.6 was his rookie year surrounded by garbage... I mean below average... Better players around him should improve his play. We shall see

[MacGyver]

You have to figure that not all the FA's they signed will actually work out in the long run, because there is never a 100% success rate.  However, the one player we NEED to work out is Morse of course.  If that signing fails, it's a big kick in the free agency gut for Beane.

[thebandit27]

They went from having one starting-caliber OLmen to a minimum of 3, with a few others that have upside.

 

That's a significant improvement irrespective of whatever Pretend Football Focus' "grades" have to say.

 

And I'm not really picking on PFF; they do a very good job of tracking data, but their grades are HIGHLY subjective 

[The Bills Blog]

So in other words, if our line looks like this:

 

Dawkins
Teller
Morse
Long
Nsehke

 

We will have three above average, one average (suspect will improve in second year), and one below average but only due to the fact that he played hurt last year (likely above average otherwise). Looks good to me.

[ajgoff1286]

4 hours ago, Peter said:

 

According to the PFF ranking, we made the 13th ranked center the highest paid center in the NFL.  

 

I hope Mitch Morse plays up to his contract . . . otherwise McCoach are overpaying guys just as they thought the prior regime had done.

 

I will wait to see how Morse performs on the field, but it is interesting nonetheless.

Big big difference in how contracts are being structured now. Big $ up front to lessen the hits down the road, basically the exact opposite of Whaley

[formerlyofCtown]

8 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

I'm not really too familiar with some of the new lineman that the Bills signed this past week, so I looked up their rankings in PFF.  Here's how the 2018 group compares to the current linemen for 2019.  If the PFF rankings mean anything to you - it appears that the Bills shuffled around the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.  Based on the numbers here, there's a marginal improvement at Right Tackle and Center.  Everyone else appear to be a substitution of average to below average depth players....

 

New signees like Waddle, Felciano, and Spencer long are ranked just as low 2018 underperforming class of Vlad and Ryan Groy.  Spencer Long was actually worse than Ryan Groy!!!

 

Many say that these PFF rankings are pure BS...let's hope they are right.

 

2018 Bills Offensive LIne

 

2019 Bills Offensive Line

 

 

Did we trade Teller?

[Mat68]

The only 2 who are penciled in starters are Morse and Nsekhe.  Center both tackles.  Teller, Long, Feliciano, Bodine battle over the 2 guard spots.  Ironically, if you use Bodine who is still on the roster at either guard with Tellar it is a significant improvement.

[formerlyofCtown]

5 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

LaAdrian Waddle's best PFF seasons were back in 2013 and 2014 (75.7, 70.1), when he played under the Bills' current OL coach Johnson.

You guys have to stop, this does not fit the OPs narrative.  Youll ruin everything.  The optomism on this board must be stopped.?

[aristocrat]

I’m hoping Taylor is there at 9 so we can get an elite talent on our line. A guy that just dominates. 

[BillyWhiteShows]

11 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

You guys have to stop, this does not fit the OPs narrative.  Youll ruin everything.  The optomism on this board must be stopped.?

 

Theres no narrative.  Just pointing out that if you take any stock in the PFF ratings, the moves didn’t do a it to improve the line on paper.

[CSBill]

6 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

I’m hoping Taylor is there at 9 so we can get an elite talent on our line. A guy that just dominates. 

 

It will be interesting, before last week I was all about drafting the top tackle at 9, but I doubt that will happen now. I think they could go WR, TE, or D-lineman now, and maybe still an OT ??????

[BobChalmers]

In other Bills OL news - all NFL OL look like hot garbage playing for Juan Castillo.

 

As mentioned earlier - Long was in the 70's when he played for Bobby Johnson.  Waddle played well for him too?

 

COACHING MATTERS A LOT for NFL OL.

 

...so much so, in fact, that I question giving up on Groy and Miller who both looked like studs (along with most of the line) when coached by Aaron Kromer.

Edited March 17, 2019 by BobChalmers

[WickedGame]

8 hours ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

I'm not really too familiar with some of the new lineman that the Bills signed this past week, so I looked up their rankings in PFF.  Here's how the 2018 group compares to the current linemen for 2019.  If the PFF rankings mean anything to you - it appears that the Bills shuffled around the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.  Based on the numbers here, there's a marginal improvement at Right Tackle and Center.  Everyone else appear to be a substitution of average to below average depth players....

 

New signees like Waddle, Felciano, and Spencer long are ranked just as low 2018 underperforming class of Vlad and Ryan Groy.  Spencer Long was actually worse than Ryan Groy!!!

 

Many say that these PFF rankings are pure BS...let's hope they are right.

 

2018 Bills Offensive LIne

 

2019 Bills Offensive Line

 

 

Possibly the worst analysis I’ve ever seen on this site. You don’t judge the value of these players by adding up their combined PFF scores and comparing the totals against each other, or comparing our highest score from last year against our highest from this year, etc. I’m not even talking about the foolishness of a PFF metric as a measuring stick here...

 

At the very least, if you’re going to rely on this particular data set for your analysis, at least do an apples-to-apples comparison:

 

* Is Mitch Morse (69.5) better than Russell Bodine (61.6) and Ryan Groy (46.7) at Center? Yes, substantially. 

 

Is Ty Nsekhe (67.8) better than Jordan Mills (56) at Right Tackle? Yes, substantially. 

 

Is everyone we brought in a stud? No. Did we bring in a few players whose scores are lower than guys who walked away? Yes. But did we vastly improve two positions on the line? Yes.

 

And as far as the rest of the OL additions, I’m not concerned that they’re not (according to PFF metrics) a clear-cut improvement. These are depth players anyway, and given how bad our starters sucked last year, I’m at peace with upgrades at C and RT and shuffling the deck chairs at the backup positions. Heck, maybe you get lucky and one of those new deck chairs is a big upgrade over last years P.O.S. starter. 

 

But to say we’re not better at this point? Sheesh. 

 

EDIT: Let’s not overlook two other important facts: We dumped an OL coach who was accomplishing nothing, and we brought in players who may fit our OL scheme better than their prior teams’ schemes.

 

I personally think we draft Risner in round 2, but that’s just a guess. 

Edited March 17, 2019 by WickedGame

[formerlyofCtown]

10 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

Theres no narrative.  Just pointing out that if you take any stock in the PFF ratings, the moves didn’t do a it to improve the line on paper.

That would be accurate.  I remember people not being very optomistic with our Rex line but it ended up being one of the best in the league.  Games arnt played on paper.  Our line could be better(Which I believe it is) or it could be worse.  One thing I know for sure is it isnt the same as it was.

[BillyWhiteShows]

4 minutes ago, WickedGame said:

Possibly the worst analysis I’ve ever seen on this site. You don’t judge the value of these players by adding up their combined PFF scores and comparing the totals against each other, or comparing our highest score from last year against our highest from this year, etc. I’m not even talking about the foolishness of a PFF metric as a measuring stick here...

 

At the very least, if you’re going to rely on this particular data set for your analysis, at least do an apples-to-apples comparison:

 

* Is Mitch Morse (69.5) better than Russell Bodine (61.6) and Ryan Groy (46.7) at Center? Yes, substantially. 

 

Is Ty Nsekhe (67.8) better than Jordan Mills (56) at Right Tackle? Yes, substantially. 

 

Is everyone we brought in a stud? No. Did we bring in a few players whose scores are lower than guys who walked away? Yes. But did we vastly improve two positions on the line? Yes.

 

And as far as the rest of the OL additions, I’m not concerned that they’re not (according to PFF metrics) a clear-cut improvement. These are depth players anyway, and given how bad our starters sucked last year, I’m at peace with upgrades at C and RT and shuffling the deck chairs at the backup positions. Heck, maybe you get lucky and one of those new deck chairs is a big upgrade over last years P.O.S. starter. 

 

But to say we’re not better at this point? Sheesh. 

 

Not saying I agree with it.  Some people in here live or die off analytics sites like PFF.  If you go by those metrics, we did improve at C and RT, but actually got worse depth.  

[billsredneck1]

8 hours ago, klos63 said:

It's been proven that a player always performs exactly the same way he did in past, even with different teammates, coaches and situations.

spencer long played hurt and out of position.  feliciano had a small amount of playing time. teller's not on the list.  depth guys should not be part of the equation.

nsehke is way above mills.  bobbie johnson is familiar with (3?) of these guys?....and we still have the draft....and lastly, we played with 4 different qbs,

 

as far as i'm concerned no comparisons can be made with the 2018 line.  it's history.  we will have at least a top 15 line this year. this staff will get them to play out of their minds.

[BuffAlone]

48 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

Theres no narrative.  Just pointing out that if you take any stock in the PFF ratings, the moves didn’t do a it to improve the line on paper.

Adding 2 above average players didn't improve the line? At minimum, 40% of our line has improved, and the draft is yet to come

[eball]

Hey, we all know they need to show something on the field before we can claim success.  But the bottom line is a lot needed to change.  Unless an individual lineman's ranking is either very good or very bad, I will posit that line play is largely based upon the chemistry of the unit as a whole and the coaching they receive.  Without question the most important addition is Morse.  He is a proven C whose presence should pay immediate dividends for the entire line.  I like all of the competition added at G and T, and I don't for a moment assume the Bills are done (i.e., draft).

 

I think it would be a mistake to use these PFF "grades" -- numbers derived from Joe Schmoes sitting at home reviewing game tape -- as evidence of anything truly significant when it comes to overall OL play, unless it's clear a player is either very good or very bad, as noted above.

[NY Nole]

PFF is the biggest sham - total click bait. Even more ridiculous is the fact NBC pastes it on their player intros as if it it some legit statistic. These “grades” have no basis — as it has been pointed out on more than one occasion — they have no idea what play was called and what assignment the player actually had on the play. It’s a total farce. I can’t wait till PFF starts doing mock drafts. I think the Bills got much better on OL.