How Much Did The Bills Actually Improve the OL? PFF Rankings 2018 vs. 2019 Comparison

[Formerly Allan in MD]

We still need a stud OT, pure and simple.

[Trogdor]

17 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

We still need a stud OT, pure and simple.

And pray that our new center actually finishes a season. In fact, all of the additions on the line have some injury concerns. I think they can be very good if healthy and Dawkins at LG sounds better than LT. 

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

What's incredible is suggesting that Allen's passing line was good.  

 

I want to make sure I read you correctly. A little part of me thinks I must be mistaken. It seems like you were comparing Andre Holmes to Marquise Goodwin. Do I have that right?

[CLTbills]

The answer to this question is, we don't know until they're on the field. PFF has long proven to be a VERY inaccurate source.

[Bills4Ever4Life]

I ignore everything but the performance column:

Last Year: 1 above average / 4 average / 3 below average

This year: 3 above average / 2 average / 4 below average

 

IMO, the starters now look like 3 above average and 2 average players and 0 below average while last year we had 1 above average and 4 average players. In either case we had a bunch of below average depth....pretty typical. So, YES this looks like an upgrade to me. 

Sorry for not reading the 8 pages worth of comments....maybe this was already mentioned.

[SoTier]

22 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Raw numbers without context/content. Manuel's WR's were Stevie Johnson, Robert Woods, Goodwin, Graham, Hogan. Who did Josh Allen have for WR?

 

 

Who's fault is that?    Whaley/Marrone did all they could to put their QB in a position to succeed.  That he didn't is on him.   McDermott/Beane stipped this team of it's WR talent,  traded away the only decent OLer they had left after Wood and Incognito retired, and replaced all with scrubs.  Then they deliberately threw their pricey young QB to the wolves with no support by wasting a roster spot on Nathan Peterman and even naming Peterman starter for the season opener.  He didn't even have an experienced QB coach last season!  If Allen fails, at least part of the blame has to be on McDermott/Beane.

[Simon Says]

What about Sirles and Teller?  You can delete Boettger and McDermott ; they hardly had any snaps, certainly not statstcially significant. I wont accept these numbers at face value so i might look them up myself. 

What about Sirles and Teller?  You can delete Boettger and McDermott ; they hardly had any snaps, certainly not statstcially significant. I wont accept these numbers at face value so i might look them up myself. 

Ironically, you are referencing PFF; They named the Bills O Line one of the FIVE MOST IMPROVED position groups after free agency.

[billsfan89]

On 3/17/2019 at 12:40 AM, Peter said:

 

According to the PFF ranking, we made the 13th ranked center the highest paid center in the NFL.  

 

I hope Mitch Morse plays up to his contract . . . otherwise McCoach are overpaying guys just as they thought the prior regime had done.

 

I will wait to see how Morse performs on the field, but it is interesting nonetheless.

 

Mitch is an elite pass protecting center, considering the importance of the pass game I can live with overpaying a center who is so so in the run game and elite in keeping the pocket clean.

Edited March 23, 2019 by billsfan89

[Ronin]

On 3/20/2019 at 2:48 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

You said Quote "I wanted the other Josh BADLY and think Rosen will be better then Allen but Allen is on my team so I will root for Allen"

 

hmmm.

 

Uhhh, sorry partner, you've got me completely confused with someone else.  

 

I've never believed any of that.  Mayfield was the only QB on record that I said I would have taken in round 1 prior to last year's draft.  

 

Always a good idea to get facts straight first.  ; ) 

[Ronin]

On 3/20/2019 at 9:06 PM, HappyDays said:

 

I want to make sure I read you correctly. A little part of me thinks I must be mistaken. It seems like you were comparing Andre Holmes to Marquise Goodwin. Do I have that right?

 

No.  

 

I was comparing, overall, the laundry list of WRs that he said were better under Manuel, which is nonsense.  

 

Neither had great WRs but one group wasn't all that much different from the other, particularly when we consider that Woods was a rookie at the time, alongside another rookie as well.  

 

There's not a prolific WR in that bunch.  Woods may end up being very good but one very good season hardly a great WR makes.  Many WRs post one good season, so the jury's out there.  Also, Woods is playing on a team with a relatively prolific passing game which makes it much easier to post good numbers.  Common sense there.  IMO, how good a WR is also has a lot to do with what said WR can do on his own when he isn't on a team with three or four other viable targets with a top-notch offensive backfield to back it up.  Ergo, I don't see to many WRs doing poorly on the Rams, eh.  

[Ronin]

On 3/20/2019 at 2:40 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

So the fact that the EJ's rookie stats look a little better makes sense right? your being silly in your thinking.

 

Right because you are god, you are right and everyone around you is always wrong when you try to prove them otherwise. Keep running with it. see how it ends.

 

Boy, talk about having a tantrum.  LOL 

 

I'll tell ya what's silly, is slamming facts/data/stats by insisting that there are other things to look at while providing absolutely nothing substantial to counter the premise.  That's silly.  

 

Insisting that narratives trump reason and well substantiated analysis is silly.  

 

I'm not trying to prove anything.  I've stated that I don't know how it will work out.  Again, tantrum much.  

 

If you took the time to read my posts you'd see that all I'm saying is that in order to become a franchise QB, his short-medium passing game will have to go from bottom-dwelling to well-above-average.  I'm sorry that you disagree and have trouble processing that tidbit and NFL factoid.  

 

Unfortunately, and since you insist on talking about "being right," etc., if Allen becomes a franchise QB he'll have done that, proving me correct.  

 

OTOH, if he fails to do that he can't possibly become a franchise QB, which, unfortunately for you, given your emotional disposition here, will also mean that I'm correct.  

 

So it's kind of a lose-lose for ya here.  LOL  

 

I couldn't care about being correct or not, only emotionally immature people care about that.  I care more about discussion and the topics at hand.  I enjoy the analysis of it all.  

 

I also care that our team doesn''t suck for another decade or into perpetuity.  Unfortunately that's well beyond my control.  I've been stuck here watching the ongoing buffoonery at OBD for over two decades now just like everyone else.  

[BillyWhiteShows]

On 3/17/2019 at 5:21 PM, Doc said:

 

PFF's grading begs the question: what are the qualifications of PFF's staff?  Are they ex-coaches, much less ex-NFL coaches?

 

And the biggest reason for the struggles of the OL, besides Juan Castillo, are losing Wood and Incognito and replacing them with far inferior players.  Sure having a rookie QB didn't help, but having those guys and a run game would have taken enormous pressure off Josh.

 

As for the run game, having Brown and Foster outside will prevent CB's and S's from crowding the LOS, allowing more room for the RB's.

 

I will never understand how some fans take the opinion of the fan bloggers at Cover 1 as legitimate, yes choose to question an outlet like PFF.

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

I will never understand how some fans take the opinion of the fan bloggers at Cover 1 as legitimate, yes choose to question an outlet like PFF.

 

Probably because PFF usually doesn’t have nice things to say about the Bills. Whenever they do, they instantly become credible. Kind of like how it works here with the national media.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Bangarang

[SouthNYfan]

29 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Probably because PFF usually doesn’t have nice things to say about the Bills. Whenever they do, they instantly become credible. Kind of like how it works here with the national media.

 

Kind of how it works with the national media for everything (sports, politics, video game reviews, automobile reviews/repair rates, etc)

If they agree with you they are credible and brilliant, if they don't they are unreliable fake news.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

I will never understand how some fans take the opinion of the fan bloggers at Cover 1 as legitimate, yes choose to question an outlet like PFF.

 

I don't put any stock in Cover 1.  And you know the saying "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics"?  How do you think that came about?

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I don't put any stock in Cover 1.  And you know the saying "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics"?  How do you think that came about?

Because some people choose to ignore empirical data and instead "trust their gut?"

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Boy, talk about having a tantrum.  LOL 

 

I'll tell ya what's silly, is slamming facts/data/stats by insisting that there are other things to look at while providing absolutely nothing substantial to counter the premise.  That's silly.  

 

Insisting that narratives trump reason and well substantiated analysis is silly.  

 

I'm not trying to prove anything.  I've stated that I don't know how it will work out.  Again, tantrum much.  

 

If you took the time to read my posts you'd see that all I'm saying is that in order to become a franchise QB, his short-medium passing game will have to go from bottom-dwelling to well-above-average.  I'm sorry that you disagree and have trouble processing that tidbit and NFL factoid.  

 

Unfortunately, and since you insist on talking about "being right," etc., if Allen becomes a franchise QB he'll have done that, proving me correct.  

 

OTOH, if he fails to do that he can't possibly become a franchise QB, which, unfortunately for you, given your emotional disposition here, will also mean that I'm correct.  

 

So it's kind of a lose-lose for ya here.  LOL  

 

I couldn't care about being correct or not, only emotionally immature people care about that.  I care more about discussion and the topics at hand.  I enjoy the analysis of it all.  

 

I also care that our team doesn''t suck for another decade or into perpetuity.  Unfortunately that's well beyond my control.  I've been stuck here watching the ongoing buffoonery at OBD for over two decades now just like everyone else.  

I haven't read the entire argument between you and others, and it's off the point of this thread, but I have to say that what you say about Allen in the quotes post and about Allen vs. Manuel is on the money.

 

Manuel didn't LOOK like a winner to me on his first season, but statistically he had a pretty good season, for a rookie, especially given the talent around him. Statistically, Allen wasn't nearly as good, but he LOOKED like a winner to me, so I'm hopeful.

 

And your point about the short passing game is correct.  Allen needs to improve his short and mid-range game.  The Bills coaches have been clear about.  And I think he will, because his problem was not that he couldn't complete the throws so much as it was that he didn't make the throws.  The Bills want him to take the high percentage throw every time, instead of the 50% throw deep.  Allen often ignored the outlet pass, and he isn't supposed to.   That message will be drilled into him this year.  It's also the reason they got Beasley.

[Ronin]

19 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't read the entire argument between you and others, and it's off the point of this thread, but I have to say that what you say about Allen in the quotes post and about Allen vs. Manuel is on the money.

 

Manuel didn't LOOK like a winner to me on his first season, but statistically he had a pretty good season, for a rookie, especially given the talent around him. Statistically, Allen wasn't nearly as good, but he LOOKED like a winner to me, so I'm hopeful.

 

And your point about the short passing game is correct.  Allen needs to improve his short and mid-range game.  The Bills coaches have been clear about.  And I think he will, because his problem was not that he couldn't complete the throws so much as it was that he didn't make the throws.  The Bills want him to take the high percentage throw every time, instead of the 50% throw deep.  Allen often ignored the outlet pass, and he isn't supposed to.   That message will be drilled into him this year.  It's also the reason they got Beasley.

 

Thanks. 

 

The question is why didn't he make the throws.  All too often we'd watch, see a receiver wide open in the flats or OTM short and yet he didn't seem to see the guy.  

 

Here's the thing, that's a very difficult thing to coach, namely getting into a players head and mindset.  That to me based on decades of experience is where the biggest connection between college and the NFL exists.  

 

We'll see.  Otherwise, I'm not sure that people realize the size of the gap from where Allen is now in the short-medium game to even average much less franchise status.  It cannot be stressed enough, Allen was bottom-dwelling in the short-medium game and in the Red Zone, where he was easily, by a country mile, DFL prior to that emotionally charged Miami game.  

 

Another interesting point-of-note was that he really only played well against Maimi.  He was horrible in the other 10 games.  He had 5 TDs and 3 INTs in two games against Miami, he had 5 TDs and 9 INTs in his other 10 games and averaged over 75 yards less passing than he did vs. Miami.  

[LSHMEAB]

7 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Thanks. 

 

The question is why didn't he make the throws.  All too often we'd watch, see a receiver wide open in the flats or OTM short and yet he didn't seem to see the guy.  

 

Here's the thing, that's a very difficult thing to coach, namely getting into a players head and mindset.  That to me based on decades of experience is where the biggest connection between college and the NFL exists.  

 

We'll see.  Otherwise, I'm not sure that people realize the size of the gap from where Allen is now in the short-medium game to even average much less franchise status.  It cannot be stressed enough, Allen was bottom-dwelling in the short-medium game and in the Red Zone, where he was easily, by a country mile, DFL prior to that emotionally charged Miami game.  

 

Another interesting point-of-note was that he really only played well against Maimi.  He was horrible in the other 10 games.  He had 5 TDs and 3 INTs in two games against Miami, he had 5 TDs and 9 INTs in his other 10 games and averaged over 75 yards less passing than he did vs. Miami.  

I wonder if we'd have the same collective optimism if the final game of the season was at NE and not at home against a Miami team that appeared to quit.

 

I will say that besides the respectable numbers he put up in said Miami game, the touch pass he completed to Ivory provided some hope that he at least has the ability to make that play. Hitting/Missing those bunnies will ultimately define his career.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Doc]

On many of those short passes Josh, saw that they were available and decided on a different course of action. Maybe he was told to look for the big play or maybe he thought that he needed to do more on his own given the lack of support around him. I don’t know. But with a guy like Beasley around, he’ll (most likely come to) realize what he has there and use the short passes more.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Doc