3rdnlng Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 minute ago, bilzfancy said: I know there are some libs on here and would like to hear their reasoning for a bigger government, why they like the idea of government controlling so many aspects of their lives Libs like power, which is the same thing as being able to tell other people what to do. The larger the government the more it can interfere in people's lives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 5 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: But maybe Maduro could convince Trump that America should come around to the Chavez/#34 vision. Trump, being an evil capitalist should be easily swayed. Here is a preview of the encounter: Ok, Ok, Thanks for that... RIP John Candy. -Legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bilzfancy said: I know there are some libs on here and would like to hear their reasoning for a bigger government, why they like the idea of government controlling so many aspects of their lives They don’t want their lives controlled, they want your life controlled. They want to use the force of government to compel you to think as they do. Edited March 17, 2019 by TakeYouToTasker 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 On 3/16/2019 at 2:50 PM, 3rdnlng said: https://www.foxnews.com/world/how-socialism-turned-venezuela-from-the-wealthiest-country-in-south-america-into-an-economic-basket-case Chavez succeeded in re-writing the Constitution, which came with new rights to things like free government-provided health care, college, and “social justice”. The constitution passed a popular vote easily, with 72% of the vote. The basic structure of both the old and new constitutions followed the U.S. model – with a Presidency, a legislative branch, and a Supreme Court. However, after several Supreme Court rulings went against Chavez, in 2004 he “stacked the court” by passing a law to add 12 new justices to it – justices that he got to pick. A similar move was once proposed in the United States by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, and the idea has also been proposed recently by professors angry about President Trump’s nomination of Justice Brett Kavanaugh to the court. Only once Chavez had control of the courts and the legislature did he begin to fully advance socialist policies. VENEZUELA'S LEADERSHIP CRISIS 'CANNOT BE IGNORED' AS WORLD PICKS WHETHER TO BACK MADURO OR SUPPORT OPPONENT GUIADO Video “A series of changes started to show us the terrifying truth,” Giannina Raffo said. “Constant attacks on private property, the implementation of very harmful economic policies, criminalization of dissent, censorship, etc,” In 2006, Chavez ran for election on an overtly socialist platform, and soon after he won, he began major seizures privately-owned property. Thousands of private businesses were nationalized – including media outlets, oil and power companies, mines, farms, banks, factories, and grocery stores. One video shows a shop owner in tears as his business is confiscated for charging higher prices than were allowed. Through the nationalizations, Americans from Michael Moore to Nobel-prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz often applauded Chavez’s regime. In beginning, Chavez had shown some progress in reducing poverty – something experts say was possible by spending Venezuela’s vast oil wealth. “They were able to fund a lot with the oil money, and when oil prices went down, the rest of the economy had been just destroyed,” Tom Palmer, Executive VP at the Atlas Network, told Fox News. Does anyone know what Venezuelans used for light before candles? ELECTRICITY China is a socialist country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: China is a socialist country Answer my question, Tibs, a few posts above yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 10:22 AM, bilzfancy said: I have just one question for the liberals on here, why do you want/seek a bigger government? So we can get more stuff done, like having better care for our elderly, to help keep the environment from getting worse and to promote the general welfare. Not everything should just get bigger, though. What is it you want cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So we can get more stuff done, like having better care for our elderly, to help keep the environment from getting worse and to promote the general welfare. Not everything should just get bigger, though. What is it you want cut? You do realize the bigger the government, the less freedom you have, the smaller, the more freedom. I'm closer to 70 then 60 and my health care is just fine. Anytime the government gets involved in anything, they just screw it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, Tiberius said: China is a socialist country And? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, bilzfancy said: You do realize the bigger the government, the less freedom you have, the smaller, the more freedom. I'm closer to 70 then 60 and my health care is just fine. Anytime the government gets involved in anything, they just screw it up. Not true! Not true at all. There is no freedom at all under mob rule, anarchy, sickness or with the government not creating infrastructure to promote the general welfare. 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: And? They are the second biggest economy in the world, and growing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 The USA has made great strides in reducing its greenhouse gases over the last several years and leads the industrial world in reducing pollution. China and India have the worst records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Not true! Not true at all. There is no freedom at all under mob rule, anarchy, sickness or with the government not creating infrastructure to promote the general welfare. Yes it's true, the bigger the government, the more control they have over your everyday life, you really want that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Go USA!!! Just now, bilzfancy said: Yes it's true, the bigger the government, the more control they have over your everyday life, you really want that? I'm free as can be, and like it. The government increasing health care spending won't change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Nothing new. socialism ALWAYS ends this way. its a failed Ideology. seeing all the kids gravitating towards it, only shows how far our education system has fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Chris farley said: Nothing new. socialism ALWAYS ends this way. its a failed Ideology. seeing all the kids gravitating towards it, only shows how far our education system has fallen. and that's why the dems want to lower the voting age to 16, how stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: They are the second biggest economy in the world, and growing! Maybe not as well as they claim it is. There's evidence now that China's GDP is quite a bit lower than they claim it is: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-economy-not-so-big-after-all-46887 Interesting side note about the per capital GDP - it's still about half of what ours was in 1970. Their current "growth" is apparently based on unsustainably borrowed money: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2019-03-11/whats-causing-chinas-economic-slowdown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Tiberius said: China is a socialist country no, they're really not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Foxx said: no, they're really not. Ok. But if their economy was bad you'd say so... 1 hour ago, Koko78 said: Maybe not as well as they claim it is. There's evidence now that China's GDP is quite a bit lower than they claim it is: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-economy-not-so-big-after-all-46887 Interesting side note about the per capital GDP - it's still about half of what ours was in 1970. Their current "growth" is apparently based on unsustainably borrowed money: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/china/2019-03-11/whats-causing-chinas-economic-slowdown Theirs or ours??? National debt tops $22 trillion for first time, after Trump tax cut https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/12/...debt.../2849978002/ Feb 12, 2019 - Treasury Department reports that national debt hits $22.012 trillion, ... President Trumpis proposing a $4 trillion-plus budget that projects a $1 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Ok. But if their economy was bad you'd say so... China's economy is in a freefall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Theirs or ours??? English is hard. 14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: China's economy is in a freefall. Not quite a freefall, but that's only because they're extending unsustainable levels of credit to keep it growing. As the second article I linked mentions, the credit is unsustainable, but the CCP has little choice, since their legitimacy now depends on their proclaimed economic prowess (which is also why they consistently lie about their GDP growth, as well as their failure to mention per capita GDP being pathetic.) Edited March 18, 2019 by Koko78 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Trump recognized the bargaining power he had vis a vis the USA's economy versus that of China. He appears to be holding firm regarding fair trade but not being a jerk about it. The March 1st deadline for increasing tariffs has passed without Trump imposing them, while they're hopefully wrapping up the main agreement. A feather in Trump's cap for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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