buffalo2218 Posted August 20, 2019 Posted August 20, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 10:09 PM, buffaloboyinATL said: Man, the Steelers got much less for AB. That shows more how much Pitt wanted him gone
Doc Posted August 20, 2019 Posted August 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, buffalo2218 said: That shows more how much Pitt wanted him gone Or how few suitors there were for him, especially after the Bills backed out.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) What about me (OBJ)?? to not get left out of the news Odell amends his statement https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/odell-beckham-jr-lands-another-jab-at-giants-says-they-traded-him-to-cleveland-to-die-and-calls-it-personal/ it's 'personal' "That doesn't mean that Beckham is done airing his grievances with the Giants , who traded him to Cleveland during the offseason. Beckham, during a recent interview with Sports Illustrated, said that the Giants, despite having other teams interested in trading for him, sent him to Cleveland in an attempt to derail his career. Just tell him to do what he does," he said. "There's a reason he was the first pick. There's a reason he won the Heisman. There's a reason he led Oklahoma to all those great seasons. I just let him tell me what he thinks I should do and I'm just gonna do that, and he's gonna put it where it needs to be." "This wasn't no business move," Beckham said of the Giants' decision to trade him to the Brown. "This was personal. They thought they'd send me here to die." #asskissersayswhat #brownnoseforlife Edited August 21, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan
Magox Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 8:56 PM, Scorp83 said: Same Thing Once you wins some games... that will automatically chance your Culture That's not how it works. Culture is established before the winning. Winning only reinforces and validates it.
Mr. WEO Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Magox said: That's not how it works. Culture is established before the winning. Winning only reinforces and validates it. It is?
Magox Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It is? Of course. Winning organizations don't just magically happen. Edited August 21, 2019 by Magox 1
Don Otreply Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 53 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It is? Yup, it is, every time. Teams with the I me me mine cultures don’t do well with any frequency. Go Bills!!!
TheFunPolice Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 Whatever culture the Browns established last year left when they fired pretty much everyone I would think...
BarleyNY Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 7 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: What about me (OBJ)?? to not get left out of the news Odell amends his statement https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/odell-beckham-jr-lands-another-jab-at-giants-says-they-traded-him-to-cleveland-to-die-and-calls-it-personal/ it's 'personal' "That doesn't mean that Beckham is done airing his grievances with the Giants , who traded him to Cleveland during the offseason. Beckham, during a recent interview with Sports Illustrated, said that the Giants, despite having other teams interested in trading for him, sent him to Cleveland in an attempt to derail his career. Just tell him to do what he does," he said. "There's a reason he was the first pick. There's a reason he won the Heisman. There's a reason he led Oklahoma to all those great seasons. I just let him tell me what he thinks I should do and I'm just gonna do that, and he's gonna put it where it needs to be." "This wasn't no business move," Beckham said of the Giants' decision to trade him to the Brown. "This was personal. They thought they'd send me here to die." #asskissersayswhat #brownnoseforlife It is a recent article, but the OBJ quotes about the trade were all old. It’s just a writer trying to get clicks by making it seem like they’re still feuding. OBJ said some nice stuff about Baker and Eli said some nice stuff about OBJ. Other than that it’s old news. 1
Mr. WEO Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Magox said: Of course. Winning organizations don't just magically happen. Did the Seahawks develop some sort of "culture" before they suddenly started winning in 2012? What is the "culture" going on there in Green Bay, now that the wins are suddenly harder to come by? What was the "culture" in Denver before they went on a 4 year tear with 2 SB appearances and a win a few years ago? And, most obviously, what was the "culture" in NE in 2001 that suddenly led to an unending winning streak that persists to this day? Winning IS culture. 2 1
Magox Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Did the Seahawks develop some sort of "culture" before they suddenly started winning in 2012? What is the "culture" going on there in Green Bay, now that the wins are suddenly harder to come by? What was the "culture" in Denver before they went on a 4 year tear with 2 SB appearances and a win a few years ago? And, most obviously, what was the "culture" in NE in 2001 that suddenly led to an unending winning streak that persists to this day? Winning IS culture. This is pure ignorance. That's not how it works and it is clear that you have never been a part of an ongoing successful program or organization. 2 2
Mr. WEO Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Magox said: This is pure ignorance. That's not how it works and it is clear that you have never been a part of an ongoing successful program or organization. This is the typical response from someone whose premise (some sort of "culture" HAS to pre-exist and therefore creates winning) has been quickly disproven. You can't answer my simple questions so you divert your poor focus toward a personal jab at the person who exposed the fallacy of your argument. Edited August 21, 2019 by Mr. WEO 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted August 22, 2019 Posted August 22, 2019 There will be a huge plate of crow waiting for you come December Scott. This team will not suck this year.
Magox Posted August 22, 2019 Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: This is the typical response from someone whose premise (some sort of "culture" HAS to pre-exist and therefore creates winning) has been quickly disproven. You can't answer my simple questions so you divert your poor focus toward a personal jab at the person who exposed the fallacy of your argument. You're right WEO, winning just happens. Successful organizations just happen because in order for them to be successful they just have to first be successful. Right? Right???? Creating a culture of accountability, work ethic, preparation, discipline, structured program, recruiting, scouting, development, proper training these are all just made up buzz words, terms and processes that are thrown out there that have no meaning. Because, ya'know Winning just happens! Amirite? First win! Then culture comes. This line of thinking is pure and adulterated ignorance. I will say it again and I will stand by it knowing that you and any other person who believes this to be the case which is that winning creates culture rather than the other way around has never been a part of a consistently successful organization or program. Edited August 22, 2019 by Magox
Wsam4031 Posted August 22, 2019 Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 12:24 PM, Doc said: Just curious but never reached out to the Browns on him...for what? To look to trade for him after being traded there? Yea i meant the Giants.
Mr. WEO Posted August 22, 2019 Posted August 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, Magox said: You're right WEO, winning just happens. Successful organizations just happen because in order for them to be successful they just have to first be successful. Right? Right???? Creating a culture of accountability, work ethic, preparation, discipline, structured program, recruiting, scouting, development, proper training these are all just made up buzz words, terms and processes that are thrown out there that have no meaning. Because, ya'know Winning just happens! Amirite? First win! Then culture comes. This line of thinking is pure and adulterated ignorance. I will say it again and I will stand by it knowing that you and any other person who believes this to be the case which is that winning creates culture rather than the other way around has never been a part of a consistently successful organization or program. Every team prepares, scouts, has some structure, develops players, trains and coaches them--and yet they still don't consistently win (or win much at all). My point (for which I gave examples that you couldn't respond to) is winning in the NFL can and has "suddenly" happened, before some unique "culture" could be long established. The winning then became the culture and propagated itself. This is an easy concept to understand. Teams that don't win much will convince their fans that, with each new regime, a "new culture" will be installed which will become a winning culture. And then it doesn't. And the cycle repeats itself. This, too, isn't hard to see. No amount of culture can overcome lack of talent, especially at the HC/QB combo. Can a team become a winner over time? Obviously, but it's not become of some unique "culture" has been adapted (there's no such thing in the NFL anyway), it's because over time, a team has assembled enough talent to be more competitive. Look at the Browns---is it the "Culture of Freddy Kitchens" that will lead them to what may their first winning season in 12 years? Of course not and to suggest so would be silly. The bolded part sums up your understanding of these concepts. It's a frankly impossible conclusion.
TheBeane Posted August 22, 2019 Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 7:37 AM, Magox said: That's not how it works. Culture is established before the winning. Winning only reinforces and validates it. That culture also falls apart pretty quickly if the wins do not materialize.
GaryPinC Posted August 22, 2019 Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Did the Seahawks develop some sort of "culture" before they suddenly started winning in 2012? What is the "culture" going on there in Green Bay, now that the wins are suddenly harder to come by? What was the "culture" in Denver before they went on a 4 year tear with 2 SB appearances and a win a few years ago? And, most obviously, what was the "culture" in NE in 2001 that suddenly led to an unending winning streak that persists to this day? Winning IS culture. You can debate the importance of culture all you like, but winning is NOT culture. And certainly culture alone will not guarantee winning, talent is also needed. What teams do you feel have won consistently (5 years or more) with a bad culture? Certainly winning will encourage the culture but winning will not be sustained in a bad culture. Seahawks: Yes, they did develop the culture first. Pete Carroll game to the Seahawks in 2010. Took his culture and roster turnover 2 years to get going. There's plenty of articles on it https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/17555/renowned-psychologist-impressed-with-seahawks-culture-of-grit http://old.seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2022617012_seahawks08xml.html So ironic you use the Patriots. Belichick came in 2000 and is all about the culture. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/13/bill-belichick-leadership-rules.html https://cbssportsradio.radio.com/articles/former-player-discusses-bill-belichick-new-england-patriots-culture https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinandjackiefreiberg/2019/02/04/the-belichick-brady-way-10-lessons-from-the-patriots-about-the-art-of-execution/#28f98a854c68 https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1791312 https://www.complex.com/sports/2018/05/current-former-patriots-respond-pats-culture-fun Green Bay: Look at the turmoil with their front office the last two years. They still have Aaron Rodgers. Why are they not winning? How about cultural issues and a culture shift in the front office? Certainly their FO may not be bringing in enough talent but there's been a distinct culture shift at the top. https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/ https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson And you left out the Steelers, one of the strongest culture driven teams in the NFL. Last year the breakdown of that culture was deeply concerning for former players and fans. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027011/article/eventful-offseason-puts-pittsburgh-steelers-culture-in-spotlight It'll be interesting to see how they do this year if they recover their culture with an aging Roethlisberger. Edited August 22, 2019 by GaryPinC
Mr. WEO Posted August 22, 2019 Posted August 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: You can debate the importance of culture all you like, but winning is NOT culture. And certainly culture alone will not guarantee winning, talent is also needed. What teams do you feel have won consistently (5 years or more) with a bad culture? Certainly winning will encourage the culture but winning will not be sustained in a bad culture. Seahawks: Yes, they did develop the culture first. Pete Carroll game to the Seahawks in 2010. Took his culture and roster turnover 2 years to get going. There's plenty of articles on it https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/17555/renowned-psychologist-impressed-with-seahawks-culture-of-grit http://old.seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2022617012_seahawks08xml.html So ironic you use the Patriots. Belichick came in 2000 and is all about the culture. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/13/bill-belichick-leadership-rules.html https://cbssportsradio.radio.com/articles/former-player-discusses-bill-belichick-new-england-patriots-culture https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinandjackiefreiberg/2019/02/04/the-belichick-brady-way-10-lessons-from-the-patriots-about-the-art-of-execution/#28f98a854c68 https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1791312 https://www.complex.com/sports/2018/05/current-former-patriots-respond-pats-culture-fun Green Bay: Look at the turmoil with their front office the last two years. They still have Aaron Rodgers. Why are they not winning? How about cultural issues and a culture shift in the front office? Certainly their FO may not be bringing in enough talent but there's been a distinct culture shift at the top. https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/05/09/silverstein-critics-see-cracks-green-bay-packers-new-management-structure/1142267001/ https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/29/green-bay-packers-problems-aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson And you left out the Steelers, one of the strongest culture driven teams in the NFL. Last year the breakdown of that culture was deeply concerning for former players and fans. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001027011/article/eventful-offseason-puts-pittsburgh-steelers-culture-in-spotlight It'll be interesting to see how they do this year if they recover their culture with an aging Roethlisberger. Bellichick and Carroll are the 2 best HC's out there, don't get me wrong. They are probably the only ones who have actually developed a true culture--after they enjoyed rapid success on their current teams. But both of them had whatever culture they had before they arrived in Seattle and NE, respectively. Neither had success...until they picked their QBs. BB was rolling into NE and immediately was 5-11. Next year Brady is the starter and they never looked back. He certainly has a well known style and he's a genius. But there was no "Patriot Way" before he won a SB. Carroll was managing a back to back 7-9 team until his (very intelligent) decision to draft and immediately start Russ Wilson changed everything for that team. Without that decision, there's no reason to believe that that team would have enjoyed the success they have since because of some Pete Carroll culture. Steelers? Their HC is a doofus whose culture includes tripping opponents from the sideline and whose lack of adult leadership led to the chaos that was last season. Yet despite his "culture", the Steelers kept winning prior to the melt down. Packers? You couldn't have picked a worse example to demonstrate your point. The keeper of the sacred "Packers Culture", since before Rodgers got there has been a guy recently outed (by Rodgers, no less!) as a incredibly lazy dumbass who the QB regularly ignored by the end. Yet, despite this dysfunctional relationship (excuse me...culture), they kept racking up divisional wins and even a SB win. GM Thompson was too busy trying to show everyone "how to do it" (including several awful drafts before they demoted him to consultant) was clueless to the disastrous relationship between his slow adult HC and his pouty/cranky QB.
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