Mr. WEO Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: To all of those saying that this makes the Bills look bad, or wondering why Beane didn't offer a 3rd and a 5th .... come on. This was about guaranteed money. Lots of it. What he did NOT have in Pittsburgh and what only Oakland was stupid enough to give him. Bills win. Raiders lose. Why is the guaranteed money such a big deal (or "stupid")? This is essentially the same deal Sammy Watkins got....and Watkins ain't no AB, to put it very kindly. OBJ is getting 65 million guaranteed on a 5 year 90 million deal! Mike Evans 55 million guaranteed on an 82 million deal. This Bills are paying Latooleeoooleee 50 million with 25 million guaranteed. Granted it's over 5 year, but it's also for a zero impact player. Guaranteed money isn't stupid, it's part of the deal. Standard stuff. As a % of his total contract, AB's guarantee is the lowest of that group. 2
YoloinOhio Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Gugny said: To all of those saying that this makes the Bills look bad, or wondering why Beane didn't offer a 3rd and a 5th .... come on. This was about guaranteed money. Lots of it. What he did NOT have in Pittsburgh and what only Oakland was stupid enough to give him. Bills win. Raiders lose. I have no doubt they offered more than the raiders but it didn’t matter because they wouldn’t do the contract. There was only one team willing to do the contract. The Raiders. And they ended up bidding against themselves. I’m amazed anyone thinks the Bills wouldn’t give up a 3rd and 5th for him. Of course they would. Any number of teams would. They just didn’t want to do the contract which is likely tied to the risk involved based on his recent history. This is an interesting listen on why they couldn’t get rid of him for decent compensation and why they are paying 21 mill in dead cap for him to go away. Brutal Edited March 10, 2019 by YoloinOhio 1
Mr. WEO Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: This is from Carrucci’s article which Kirby says is accurate of what went down, and I tend to believe that since he knows the Steelers GM https://buffalonews.com/2019/03/08/buffalo-bills-antonio-brown-pittsburgh-steelers-brandon-beane-nfl-football/ So the claim made here over and over that Brown wouldn't come to Buffalo at any price is bogus.
DefenseWins Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, Mr. WEO said: So the claim made here over and over that Brown wouldn't come to Buffalo at any price is bogus. Can you summarize for us non-paying people... Did Beane refuse to sweeten the contract?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, DefenseWins said: Gotta disagree. In this instance, in particular since Allen is gonna be on his rookie deal all three of the years in question here, and keeping in mind that the cap has been going up by $10 million a year, and also keeping in mind the Bills current amount of spendable cap money that's available the Bills could have very well afforded a contract of this type to get what is arguably the best WR in the NFL. I'm not necessarily saying that I would have made that move but it is not that unthinkable. The Raiders certainly think so. I'm not faulting anyone either. I just don't know that we can assume that Beane even got the opportunity. It wouldn't make logical sense that the Bills wouldn't get the opportunity. Once teams are engaged in legit trade talks, I believe it's pretty common to ask and receive permission to contact the player's agent to clear up any contract issues. And the timeline and points laid out in the Carrucci article Yolo linked make sense: " Whatever compensation the Bills would agree to give the Steelers was directly tied to whatever financial terms Brown was seeking. It stands to reason that the larger the payout for Brown, the lower the compensation the team would be willing to give in order to reduce the risk, and vice versa. "
Putin Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 On 3/8/2019 at 4:31 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I think them or Cleveland are two most likely. Steelers GM said he never ruled out a divisional team, just wants best deal. Oh just because GM said ? Why would they trade top WR in the league to a team that’s in the division AND is on the rise AND is picked by many to win the division ( even before adding AB ) , I’m not sure but didn’t Cleveland beat them last year ? If what you suggest does happen and AB gets traded to the Browns that (IMO ) would be the dumbest trade in the history
Mr. WEO Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, DefenseWins said: Can you summarize for us non-paying people... Did Beane refuse to sweeten the contract? See Yolo's quoted bit from the article above. Whole threads have been dedicated to the idea that Brown would "refuse to show up" if traded to the Bills. The article he quotes contradicts that.
NoSaint Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think the Bills may have offered a bit better trade compensation, but been 100% unwilling to offer Brown that much in the way of guarantees. I agree with you that offering a diva WR who has gone AWOL on his team big guaranteed bucks is not the Path of Wisdom towards building a team It’s less than 2 years salary guaranteed. I know we haven’t paid a WR market rate lately so the numbers seem huge and scary but I’d rather do it for 3 years of brown than a much larger number for a guy that hasn’t been a proven #1. As as long as healthy, the guys not getting the paycheck if he doesn’t show 1
Mr. WEO Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Putin said: Oh just because GM said ? Why would they trade top WR in the league to a team that’s in the division AND is on the rise AND is picked by many to win the division ( even before adding AB ) , I’m not sure but didn’t Cleveland beat them last year ? If what you suggest does happen and AB gets traded to the Browns that (IMO ) would be the dumbest trade in the history uhhhh.....what?
YoloinOhio Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, DefenseWins said: Can you summarize for us non-paying people... Did Beane refuse to sweeten the contract? The trade comp was correlated to the size of the contract. I think the Bills were willing to give the best deal to the Steelers. They just weren’t willing to meet AB’s contract demands the way the Raiders were. The Raiders gave up less in draft picks, but were able to the deal because they met the contract demands
NoSaint Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It wouldn't make logical sense that the Bills wouldn't get the opportunity. Once teams are engaged in legit trade talks, I believe it's pretty common to ask and receive permission to contact the player's agent to clear up any contract issues. And the timeline and points laid out in the Carrucci article Yolo linked make sense: " Whatever compensation the Bills would agree to give the Steelers was directly tied to whatever financial terms Brown was seeking. It stands to reason that the larger the payout for Brown, the lower the compensation the team would be willing to give in order to reduce the risk, and vice versa. " Obviously true of any trade ever in the history of trades. You pay more for team favorable contracts and less for risky ones 1
Putin Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: uhhhh.....what? Uhhh ? What ?? What ???
Mr. WEO Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, NoSaint said: It’s less than 2 years salary guaranteed. I know we haven’t paid a WR market rate lately so the numbers seem huge and scary but I’d rather do it for 3 years of brown than a much larger number for a guy that hasn’t been a proven #1. As as long as healthy, the guys not getting the paycheck if he doesn’t show Well put. The guaranteed money isn't a big deal for top WR contracts. Look at that Brandon Cooks deal!! The Raiders got a 1st for Cooper, who is now being paid 14 million by Dallas--and who will be FA at the end of the year looking to get paid. They got the top WR for barely top 5 WR money for 3 years and insignificant draft picks. AB is a head case right now, and he will grow tired of lame duck year QB Crybaby Carr, but I don't see how this is dumb move by the Raiders. The Steelers got crushed in every way on this deal.
The Senator Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: This is from Carrucci’s article which Kirby says is accurate of what went down, and I tend to believe that since he knows the Steelers GM https://buffalonews.com/2019/03/08/buffalo-bills-antonio-brown-pittsburgh-steelers-brandon-beane-nfl-football/ Am watching Carruci on Sports Talk right now. According to Vic, talks btwn Bills & Steelers began Tuesday and went on thru Thursday, at watch point Beane walked away because he didn’t feel comfortable with Brown’s contract demands. After talks fell apart, Rappaport erroneously reported that a deal was imminent - he apparently wanted to be first, rather than right. Beane would have preferred to keep it quiet, but Rappaport blew it. Beane didn’t feel comfortable with the money demands because we’ve got a bunch of good young players here and, you bring in a guy like AB for all that money, the young guys are going to see his “me first” attitude and start acting the same way. Essentially, Brown would be a cancer in the locker room. Makes perfect sense to me. Brown never said he wouldn’t report to Buffalo. That was just more speculation and bad reporting. If his contract demands were met, he would have reported on time, probably with a cup of Tim Horton’s in his hand, and had wings for lunch. I’m still glad he went with the Raiders. . 3
Green Lightning Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: I disagree. The Bills look wise. There is a fat contract, Picks and a head case player involved. Good for the Bills in putting themselves in the mix. Even better that they walked. This. I think we dodged a bullet. And I hope to Hell we play the Raiders soon. 2
eball Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, The Senator said: Am watching Carruci on Sports Talk right now. According to Vic, talks btwn Bills & Steelers began Tuesday and went on thru Thursday, at watch point Beane walked away because he didn’t feel comfortable with Brown’s contract demands. After talks fell apart, Rappaport erroneously reported that a deal was imminent - he apparently wanted to be first, rather than right. Beane would have preferred to keep it quiet, but Rappaport blew it. Beane didn’t feel comfortable with the money demands because we’ve got a bunch of good young players here and, you bring in a guy like AB for all that money, the young guys are going to see his “me first” attitude and start acting the same way. Essentially, Brown would be a cancer in the locker room. Makes perfect sense to me. Brown never said he wouldn’t report to Buffalo. That was just more speculation and bad reporting. If his contract demands were met, he would have reported on time, probably with a cup of Tim Horton’s in his hand, and had wings for lunch. I’m still glad he went with the Raiders. . Great summary. We've all heard Beane talk about building by "drafting and signing your own" and this makes sense. He looked at AB's demands not simply in the short term, but how they would impact the roster moving forward. Can't blame him for that sort of thinking.
Mr. WEO Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Putin said: Uhhh ? What ?? What ??? It's being reported from several sources that AB was not traded to the Browns but to the Raiders...might be fake news though.
The Senator Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Green Lightning said: This. I think we dodged a bullet. And I hope to Hell we play the Raiders soon. We play them next season, in Las Vegas. . 1
NoSaint Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Senator said: Am watching Carruci on Sports Talk right now. According to Vic, talks btwn Bills & Steelers began Tuesday and went on thru Thursday, at watch point Beane walked away because he didn’t feel comfortable with Brown’s contract demands. After talks fell apart, Rappaport erroneously reported that a deal was imminent - he apparently wanted to be first, rather than right. Beane would have preferred to keep it quiet, but Rappaport blew it. Beane didn’t feel comfortable with the money demands because we’ve got a bunch of good young players here and, you bring in a guy like AB for all that money, the young guys are going to see his “me first” attitude and start acting the same way. Essentially, Brown would be a cancer in the locker room. Makes perfect sense to me. Brown never said he wouldn’t report to Buffalo. That was just more speculation and bad reporting. If his contract demands were met, he would have reported on time, probably with a cup of Tim Horton’s in his hand, and had wings for lunch. I’m still glad he went with the Raiders. . How much extra money was the tipping point for losing the locker room? Like beane could guarantee 1.33 years and add 2m per but if he did 1.75 years and 4m extra the young guys would get the wrong message? heck, it’s basically Sammy Watkins contract. On some level if you want a passing game we are going to have to get used to seeing big numbers for guys that may have some warts on their resume. 5 minutes ago, eball said: Great summary. We've all heard Beane talk about building by "drafting and signing your own" and this makes sense. He looked at AB's demands not simply in the short term, but how they would impact the roster moving forward. Can't blame him for that sort of thinking. Why’d he even start the talks then?
oldmanfan Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: How much extra money was the tipping point for losing the locker room? Like beane could guarantee 1.33 years and add 2m per but if he did 1.75 years and 4m extra the young guys would get the wrong message? heck, it’s basically Sammy Watkins contract. On some level if you want a passing game we are going to have to get used to seeing big numbers for guys that may have some warts on their resume. Why’d he even start the talks then? Because it's his job
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