BuffaloRebound Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 I think it’s gonna be hard to pass on a DL at pick 9. You’re basically getting a top 5 talent at DL in this draft at 9. If Murray, Haskins, and Devin White go before us as predicted, one of Bosa, Q Williams, Allen, Gary, Oliver, and Wilkins will be there. Those guys are top 5 picks in almost any other year. 1
HeHateMe Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 12 hours ago, Mat68 said: His agility numbers are very similar to Randy Moss and Metcalf has much better explosive numbers, vertical and broad jump. Tall guys dont excel in the shuttle or 3 cone that's why many including Calvin Johnson decline them. People blasting Metcalf and tout Harry when he ran much slower and didn't test his agility to protect his draft status is funny. As an outside Metcalf has prototypical size. His 40 shows when you watch him. He has another gear on deep passes. He routinely has seperation on his intermediate and beyond routes. I want to enhance Allen's biggest gift. His arm. Give him a rare deep threat talent. That opens things up for all the other aspects of the passing game. Moss had insane production at Marshall.. he was a freak on the field... What has Metcalf done besides run a nice 40? 2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I think it’s gonna be hard to pass on a DL at pick 9. You’re basically getting a top 5 talent at DL in this draft at 9. If Murray, Haskins, and Devin White go before us as predicted, one of Bosa, Q Williams, Allen, Gary, Oliver, and Wilkins will be there. Those guys are top 5 picks in almost any other year. Agreed, it's one of those guys if we stay put.
DCOrange Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Thats not remotely true. CJ was incredibly productive in college and was excellent running short and intermediate routes due to his cutting ability. Metcalf can boast none of that. Unfortunately we'll never know how the season would have turned out had Metcalf not gotten hurt, but having said that, if we extrapolate Metcalf's stats through 6.25 games out to the 14 that Calvin Johnson played in his final year, Metcalf was on pace for 1,275 yards and 11 TDs. Calvin put up 1,202 yards and 15 TDs in his final year. Metcalf's dominator rating (basically picture Ole Miss' total receiving yards and TDs as a pie; dominator rating is how large Metcalf's slice of the pie is) is also above average (32.1%, the 58th percentile), though it pales in comparison to Calvin's astounding 55.3% (keeping in mind that 45% is considered to be basically legendary). Metcalf's breakout age (the age in which a player first broke over 20% dominator rating) is also slightly lower than Calvin's was, which is generally a good sign (Metcalf is in the 72nd percentile there). So with that said, Metcalf is ahead of the curve in terms of how early in his career he became a productive player and was also on pace to put up a season on par with Calvin's best season at Georgia Tech before his neck injury (though they produced in totally different ways, as Metcalf was on pace to put up more yards than Calvin on 18 fewer receptions. For reference, here's Metcalf compared to some of the guys he's been compared to (David Boston and Randy Moss are unfortunately not in the database): And here's Metcalf compared to the rest of the incoming class: Edited March 5, 2019 by DCOrange
CommonCents Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 46 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Not sure who Brett Kollman is but isn’t that kinda the concern? A body that big and stiff is having a time planting and cutting at 21 years old. How’s he going to look going forward? I think a lot of how teams value him will be from what he said in his meetings. No doubt they wouldn’t want him getting any bigger and would probably have a different workout program entirely.
NewEra Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: And yet no 1st round pick on their SB winning OL. But there are people that think Jonah Williams will come in and “fix” the OL? Where at OG because he isn’t a Tackle in the NFL. But the patriots, In the midst of the greatest 20 year run in nfl history.....drafted an OL an the first rd......and they HAVE Dante Scarnecchia coaching the OL. Proving that even the best team in history knows that they need talented offensive linemen, not just a good coach. Say w/e you want bro. I’m done with this. It’s painfully obvious that your grasping at straws and throwing things at the wall and hoping that they stick. The steelers draft OL in the first rd. The ravens draft OL in the first. The packers used to. Then they stopped. Now their OL sucks and they they can’t win with an all time QB. Does a winning OL HAVE to be made up of high draft picks? No. Can you win Super Bowls while drafting OL in the 1st rd? Obviously, yes. Not every team can have Dante Scarnecchia or an OL coach with similar success. Some teams actually need talented players along the OL
Dr. Who Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 17 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said: Straight line speed and freakish strength only go so far. Case in point David Boston. I want a guy with fast twitch muscles and the ability to cut and get open. Foster can be our fly guy. Metcalf is tempting but his 3 cone was poor. Isabella in the 2nd round? What are DK's hands like? What's his drop ratio? I like Isabella. I'd rather get him in the third, but he may not last that long. N'keal Harry and Kelvin Harmon are two wrs I'd also think about in the second. If we stay at #9, I really think there's going to be an elite DL fella available. Devin White is going to be a very good lb as well, but he'll probably be gone before our pick. Hopefully we grab a few good free agent olinemen. In spite of our need to massively upgrade the offense and build around Allen, that's not where the top of the draft talent is, imo. 1
Mat68 Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, CommonCents said: Not sure who Brett Kollman is but isn’t that kinda the concern? A body that big and stiff is having a time planting and cutting at 21 years old. How’s he going to look going forward? I think a lot of how teams value him will be from what he said in his meetings. No doubt they wouldn’t want him getting any bigger and would probably have a different workout program entirely. Moss produced the same numbers in his agility drills. Large wrs dont do as well in those drills. By the looks of if it his training was concentrated on explosive moves. That's why he did so well in the 40, vertical, and broad jump. In terms of Wr. What I think Buffalo needs most is an elite deep threat to pair with Allen's arm. In Fa you have Jon Brown, Jj Nelson, breshad Perriman, and possibly Desaun Jackson or John Ross. I would not call any of them elite, and Jackson isnt due to his age. In the draft the only other guy besides Metcalf with similar deep threat potential is Brown. For me his size is a concern but I do like him alot. The reason I come back to Metcalf is he is significantly bigger than most of the other guys. The height speed combo is rare, paired with his ability to track the deep ball. I'm not saying he will be the next great Wr, but paired with Allen he could be.
thebandit27 Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, NewEra said: But the patriots, In the midst of the greatest 20 year run in nfl history.....drafted an OL an the first rd......and they HAVE Dante Scarnecchia coaching the OL. Proving that even the best team in history knows that they need talented offensive linemen, not just a good coach. Say w/e you want bro. I’m done with this. It’s painfully obvious that your grasping at straws and throwing things at the wall and hoping that they stick. The steelers draft OL in the first rd. The ravens draft OL in the first. The packers used to. Then they stopped. Now their OL sucks and they they can’t win with an all time QB. Does a winning OL HAVE to be made up of high draft picks? No. Can you win Super Bowls while drafting OL in the 1st rd? Obviously, yes. Not every team can have Dante Scarnecchia or an OL coach with similar success. Some teams actually need talented players along the OL I think the biggest takeaway regarding building an OL is that there's no one way to do it right. Teams like Dallas use multiple first-round picks over several years to accumulate talent, and it works. Teams like NE use multiple mid-round picks over several years to accumulate talent, and it works. Teams like the Rams identify key FAs in a single offseason that fit their scheme (Whitworth, Sullivan, Blythe) and sign them to big contracts, and it works. The important thing is that the team identify talented players that fit their scheme, and invest whatever is necessary to get them in the fold. 4
NewEraBills Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mat68 said: Moss produced the same numbers in his agility drills. Large wrs dont do as well in those drills. By the looks of if it his training was concentrated on explosive moves. That's why he did so well in the 40, vertical, and broad jump. In terms of Wr. What I think Buffalo needs most is an elite deep threat to pair with Allen's arm. In Fa you have Jon Brown, Jj Nelson, breshad Perriman, and possibly Desaun Jackson or John Ross. I would not call any of them elite, and Jackson isnt due to his age. In the draft the only other guy besides Metcalf with similar deep threat potential is Brown. For me his size is a concern but I do like him alot. The reason I come back to Metcalf is he is significantly bigger than most of the other guys. The height speed combo is rare, paired with his ability to track the deep ball. I'm not saying he will be the next great Wr, but paired with Allen he could be. This is what I've been saying all along. When you factor in the strength of our QB, namely throwing the ball down the field, then you find a WR that fits what your QB does well and Metcalf is that guy in this draft on the perimeter. If we had Brady at QB, I would be shouting for Isabella, Brown or some other quick twitch guy that's is an A+ route runner. But that's not who we have at QB. We have a guy with a superior arm, that likes to throw the football down the field. We need to accentuate that. The neck is certainly a concern and I would be asking around about his timetable for playing. If he cannot play in July/August then yes, you pass on him at 9. If he can, to me you take him IF he's there.
MAJBobby Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Actually, they spent the 22nd overall pick in last year's draft on Solder's replacement--he just happened to get hurt and Trent Brown stepped in So as I said thanks
thebandit27 Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: So as I said thanks Nope...you said that they let Solder walk for a 5th rounder; they didn't. Their plan was to replace him with a first-round pick.
MAJBobby Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, BuffAlone said: Yeah, if you've noticed ANY of my posts, Im not that guy. In fact, I have said no way to Jonah, who could very well be a Gaurd, at #9. In fact, he's the 4th-5th OL on my list and I think may drop to the 2nd round. That said, if he's there at 40, and is BPA at the time, I wouldn't hate it. We need help everywhere, including G. No way do I take him at 9. I wouldn't necessarily be overjoyed at taking Taylor or Dillard or Ford at #9, but if they are BPA at #9 and fills an immediate need, I'm ok with it. Beane has already said he didn't feel there were any "elite" oline at 9, but if the combine changed his opinion at all, I trust him. He also has said their opinion is that they do not believe in the notion of a true "#1" WR in today's NFL. So I'd be hard pressed to believe they go DK at 9. They believe its more about matchups these days. FWIW. Sstrength at the top of this draft is D-line. Would even throw in Devin White to that mix. Kyle's replacement is there for the taking and meets value/need. I think that's where they go and I'd be happy happy happy to grab Oliver,Allen, or even Wilkinson at 9. Just my take on it... A GM that will do the coaches wants states their is no True No 1 WR in the NFL anymore. Go figure. It will be a Defensive player I am sure. Just now, thebandit27 said: Nope...you said that they let Solder walk for a 5th rounder; they didn't. Their plan was to replace him with a first-round pick. Nope I said their SB winning line had No 1st round pick. Was I wrong? I am not against fixing the OL. I just would like it addressed in UFA with already developed OL. Instead of spinning Wheels on a position that is Underdeveloped in College and with the CBA takes alot longer (if ever) to fix those under developed OL. Fix the OL in UFA
BuffAlone Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I think the biggest takeaway regarding building an OL is that there's no one way to do it right. Teams like Dallas use multiple first-round picks over several years to accumulate talent, and it works. Teams like NE use multiple mid-round picks over several years to accumulate talent, and it works. Teams like the Rams identify key FAs in a single offseason that fit their scheme (Whitworth, Sullivan, Blythe) and sign them to big contracts, and it works. The important thing is that the team identify talented players that fit their scheme, and invest whatever is necessary to get them in the fold. Good post. I think this is spot on. Regardless of where or how we do it, we all can agree we need to drastically upgrade the O-line
dave mcbride Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, MAJBobby said: And yet no 1st round pick on their SB winning OL. But there are people that think Jonah Williams will come in and “fix” the OL? Where at OG because he isn’t a Tackle in the NFL. Um ... don't look at just the Pats. Look at the other playoff teams this year (plus Pittsburgh): NO's o-line: 2 first rounders, 1 second rounder, two thirds KC: 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders, and a UDFA LAR: 3 second rounders, 1 sixth rounder, and 1 seventh rounder Chicago: 1 first, 2 seconds, 1 fourth, and 1 seventh Dallas: 2 firsts, 1 second, 1 fourth, and La'el Collins, a first round talent Philly: 2 firsts (they traded a first for Peters), 2 thirds, 1 sixth Seattle: 3 firsts, 1 second, and 1 seventh Baltimore: 1 first, 2 thirds, 1 fourth, and a UDFA Indy: 3 firsts, 1 second, and 1 fourth LAC: 2 firsts, 2 thirds, and a sixth Hou: 1 second, 1 fourth, 1 fifth, 1 sixth, and a UDFA (NOTE: HOUSTON STANDS OUT BECAUSE THEIR LINE WAS AWFUL AND BASICALLY COST THEM A BYE) *Pitt: 2 firsts and 3 UDFAs (*(I'm including them here because a) they had an elite offense, b) are almost always in the playoffs, and c) lost only 6 games) So, basically, you're not correct. Edited March 5, 2019 by dave mcbride 1
thebandit27 Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Nope I said their SB winning line had No 1st round pick. Was I wrong? I am not against fixing the OL. I just would like it addressed in UFA with already developed OL. Instead of spinning Wheels on a position that is Underdeveloped in College and with the CBA takes alot longer (if ever) to fix those under developed OL. Fix the OL in UFA That's not what the post I responded to said, and as I said, there are many ways to build the line. Regardless, I'm all for fixing the OL in FA. There's enough volume at guard and tackle to do so.
dave mcbride Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: A GM that will do the coaches wants states their is no True No 1 WR in the NFL anymore. Go figure. It will be a Defensive player I am sure. Nope I said their SB winning line had No 1st round pick. Was I wrong? I am not against fixing the OL. I just would like it addressed in UFA with already developed OL. Instead of spinning Wheels on a position that is Underdeveloped in College and with the CBA takes alot longer (if ever) to fix those under developed OL. Fix the OL in UFA You are quite wrong in the global sense. See above.
MAJBobby Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: Um ... don't look at just the Pats. Look at the other playoff teams this year (plus Pittsburgh): NO's o-line: 2 first rounders, 1 second rounder, two thirds KC: 2 first rounders, 2 second rounders, and a UDFA LAR: 3 second rounders, 1 sixth rounder, and 1 seventh rounder Chicago: 1 first, 2 seconds, 1 fourth, and 1 seventh Dallas: 2 firsts, 1 second, 1 fourth, and La'el Collins, a first round talent Philly: 2 firsts (they traded a first for Peters), 2 thirds, 1 sixth Seattle: 3 firsts, 1 second, and 1 seventh Baltimore: 1 first, 2 thirds, 1 fourth, and a UDFA Indy: 3 firsts, 1 second, and 1 fourth LAC: 2 firsts, 2 thirds, and a sixth Hou: 1 second, 1 fourth, 1 fifth, 1 sixth, and a UDFA (NOTE: HOUSTON STANDS OUT BECAUSE THEIR LINE WAS AWFUL AND BASICALLY COST THEM A BYE) *Pitt (I'm including them here because a) they had an elite offense, b) are almost always in the playoffs, and c) lost only 6 games): 2 firsts and 3 UDFAs So, basically, you're not correct. "And yet no 1st round pick on their SB winning OL." So, tell m again how I am incorrect with my above statement Just now, dave mcbride said: You are quite wrong in the global sense. See above. Ok if I am incorrect name me ONE just ONE OL in this first round that will "fix" the Bills OL?
Greatdane21 Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 1.6% body fat he’ll freeze in Buffalo by the end of October!
CommonCents Posted March 5, 2019 Posted March 5, 2019 29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I think the biggest takeaway regarding building an OL is that there's no one way to do it right. Teams like Dallas use multiple first-round picks over several years to accumulate talent, and it works. Teams like NE use multiple mid-round picks over several years to accumulate talent, and it works. Teams like the Rams identify key FAs in a single offseason that fit their scheme (Whitworth, Sullivan, Blythe) and sign them to big contracts, and it works. The important thing is that the team identify talented players that fit their scheme, and invest whatever is necessary to get them in the fold. Right. If you don’t have DS you might burn higher picks, even the pats used a 1st on a guard in attempt to get it right.
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