White Linen Posted March 3, 2019 Posted March 3, 2019 2 hours ago, JoeF said: So to both you and Cripple, thanks for the education. An OC, scheme, and playcalling have little to do with how much the tight end gets utilized. I didn't know that before today. I didn't see many, if any, TE drags over the middle; a delayed release or much of anything resembling an iso vertical play for the tight end in Daboll's offense last year. The times Croom and Clay got opportunities they were either in the slot or wide. I am sure these plays exist somewhere in the playbook and not having a skilled TE had a lot to do with not calling them, but I question even if the Bills had a skilled player in the role, would they use him. This offense is road grader run, stretch run, WR and RB screens and vertical...not much room for a TE as a pass catcher. If you are going to spend a draft pick in the first two rounds on a TE -- Hockenson or Smith are likely the guys..they can block. That's correct. If your offensive line sucks your TE will not get used and ultimately the QB will dictate how a TE is used. The argument that this OC uses TE's and this one doesn't is so difficult to prove. What can be proven is if your o line can't block the tight ends have to stay. What is also proven is if your QB can't handle the play calling - forget about adding the TE tree and you can 100% forget about two TE sets.
hondo in seattle Posted March 3, 2019 Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) According to WGR, the Bills have met with 14 players at the combine. 7 are OTs. It's probably safe to say the Bills are drafting a tackle. Curiously, the Bills have only talked to one guard. They've talked to 2 TEs. Getting a TE in free agency does help on draft day. But it's no better than getting any other position of need in free agency. The more problems you solve before the draft, the better - whether it's TE or something else. https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/who-bills-have-met-nfl-combine Edited March 3, 2019 by hondo in seattle
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 7 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: Why not just grab 2 OL and 1 TE in FA. I dont know about you but I would rather fortify the OL with Ts and Gs and a C. The premise of this string is that the Bills can get two FA tight ends that will be more impactful than available O-linemen. I'm not sure that it will play out that way. I think you have correctly described a very likely approach for the Bills. With at least three holes on the o-line to fill, it is highly unlikely that they will want to fill them all through the draft. I also believe that they will add a veteran TE that can be a serviceable starter until they can develop the long term starter. If a drafted rookie beats out the veteran to start, then you have good depth and the flexibility to effectively run 2 TE sets. We'll see over the next few weeks how free agency shakes out. After that the real draft needs come into focus.
JoeF Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 3 hours ago, White Linen said: That's correct. If your offensive line sucks your TE will not get used and ultimately the QB will dictate how a TE is used. The argument that this OC uses TE's and this one doesn't is so difficult to prove. What can be proven is if your o line can't block the tight ends have to stay. What is also proven is if your QB can't handle the play calling - forget about adding the TE tree and you can 100% forget about two TE sets. I am just curious why you think they ran more isolation plays for Isaiah McKenize after he was acquired -- jet sweeps, WR Screens, etc. then they did for the TE. A jet sweep certainly takes more time to develop than a TE drag. I get what you are saying but you are not convincing me that the Bills would use a TE picked in the first 2 rounds properly. Why waste the pick when you could end up with an OT (Taylor) and a G (Lindstrom).
White Linen Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, JoeF said: I am just curious why you think they ran more isolation plays for Isaiah McKenize after he was acquired -- jet sweeps, WR Screens, etc. then they did for the TE. A jet sweep certainly takes more time to develop than a TE drag. I get what you are saying but you are not convincing me that the Bills would use a TE picked in the first 2 rounds properly. Why waste the pick when you could end up with an OT (Taylor) and a G (Lindstrom). You're asking me why the ran more isolation plays for a man nicknamed "the human joystick" than the Buffalo Bills tight ends? I'm not making fun but just read that back. The reason I think the Bills would use any tight end (drafted or FA) is it's nearly impossible we won't have a battery OL and Josh Allen. I 100% do not want them to draft a tight end in round 1 or 2 - so not sure why you're telling me that. Edited March 4, 2019 by White Linen Puncuation
JoeF Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, White Linen said: You're asking me why the ran more isolation plays for a man nicknamed "the human joystick" than the Buffalo Bills tight ends? I'm not making fun but just read that back. The reason I think the Bills would use any tight end (drafted or FA) is it's nearly impossible we won't have a battery OL and Josh Allen. I 100% do not want them to draft a tight end in round 1 or 2 - so not sure why you're telling me that. Wouldn't the OL issues be more pertinent to jet sweeps than they would be to TE drags? The reason I am asking is that the OP asked if the Bills should sign two middling TE's in FA rather than spend a high draft pick on one. My point was I don't think this offense is built to scheme to a pass-game only threat tight end -- like Noah Fant. The scheme values blocking more than pass game participation by the TE. We might be agreeing here but given what I saw last year, I don't think a pass-game only threat TE like Fant would contribute much in this offense so why waste the investment.
White Linen Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, JoeF said: Wouldn't the OL issues be more pertinent to jet sweeps than they would be to TE drags? The reason I am asking is that the OP asked if the Bills should sign two middling TE's in FA rather than spend a high draft pick on one. My point was I don't think this offense is built to scheme to a pass-game only threat tight end -- like Noah Fant. The scheme values blocking more than pass game participation by the TE. We might be agreeing here but given what I saw last year, I don't think a pass-game only threat TE like Fant would contribute much in this offense so why waste the investment. I don't think after a rookie season with Allen anything is set in stone on Offense. I think you run jet sweeps when you have OL issues. I'm not sure if you're trying to trip me up in some way but TE drag routes often include a fake jet sweep - so I'm not sure what you're getting at? Is a drag route the only thing you're interested in our TE's doing? I disagree with you that this offense couldn't have a pass catching TE contribute.
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Tipster19 said: In most cases a blocking TE is considered a 6th, 7th or an 8th OL. Seeing how OL is an area of concern for the Bills I’m wondering if securing a couple of TEs in FA would help in several different ways. 1. We need TEs period. 2. Help fortify the OL. 3. Provide more leniency for the Bills in the draft. Meaning not only they really won’t have to address the TE in the draft. 4. It also allows the Bills not to be forced to take an OL early, especially at the RT position. If they did take an OL with the 9th overall pick then I hope they take Jawaan Taylor, I like his demeanor. This will also allow the Bills to take a top defensive player with their first pick, hopefully an edge rusher. Now for the 2 that I would like for the Bills to secure in FA is first Jesse James and then the Ravens Nick Boyle. Both are excellent blockers and James has better than average pass catching ability. If like redemption type players then I would like the Bills to consider Austin Seferian-Jenkins. Good player, great story, put him on a 1 year prove it deal with incentives and the Bills just might find themselves a real sleeper. Btw, I want to give a shout out to Jason Crooms, I think that he’s a very good young player that is going to play an integral part for the Bills for years to come. I like the concept of this, adding some good blocking TEs to help out on the OL, affording the luxury for the Bills to address other bigger areas of need. I agree we need competition there but that doesn't mean we instantly upgrade the OL unless we get 2 outstanding blocking TE's, as much as i like Jesse james, he's a good blocker but not outstanding. If you're looking for outstanding blockers that would be Dwayne Allen and Mercedes Lewis.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 18 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: My plan is a Jesse James in free agency and trading a 6th round pick for Tyler Higbee of the Rams. Some rumors circulated that he was available for a sixth last year. Higbee was drafted for Rob Boras who was the OC with Rams and is currently our tight ends coach. James goes 6-7, 260 Higbee goes 6-6, 250 Croom goes 6-5, 246 That's some serious size and length with some very athletic upside, plus both Higbee and Croom are on rookie contracts. I don't mind the idea of Boyle. I think you could add Boyle or Maxx Williams and they could play fullback as well, which allows you to cut DiMarco if you want. And I like ASJ as well, but to me, James-Higbee-Croom is the perfect mix of size, blocking, and recieving ability. They complement each other well. i like the way you're thinking 1
CSBill Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: My plan is a Jesse James in free agency and trading a 6th round pick for Tyler Higbee of the Rams. Some rumors circulated that he was available for a sixth last year. Higbee was drafted for Rob Boras who was the OC with Rams and is currently our tight ends coach. James goes 6-7, 260 Higbee goes 6-6, 250 Croom goes 6-5, 246 That's some serious size and length with some very athletic upside, plus both Higbee and Croom are on rookie contracts. I don't mind the idea of Boyle. I think you could add Boyle or Maxx Williams and they could play fullback as well, which allows you to cut DiMarco if you want. And I like ASJ as well, but to me, James-Higbee-Croom is the perfect mix of size, blocking, and recieving ability. They complement each other well. I like this as well. Bottom-line, we need to add two quality TEs. If we get two this way, great. If we get one FA and one through the draft, that works as well. Not sure there are two to draft, that would be a big roll of the dice, but maybe? We need two, no matter how you get them. Edited March 4, 2019 by CSBill 1
formerlyofCtown Posted March 4, 2019 Posted March 4, 2019 20 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: I don’t understand the relevance? Maybe he means you cant find your WR because you dont have time behind a terrible OL.
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