MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Mort said he thinks the Travis for Shelton trade and swap of 2nd rounders with the Cards would go down on draft day. He also said that Losman would have been the 1st QB taken this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Mort said he thinks the Travis for Shelton trade and swap of 2nd rounders with the Cards would go down on draft day. He also said that Losman would have been the 1st QB taken this year. 290516[/snapback] I'm still a little surprised TD is not asking for an extra 4th instead of moving up the 11 spots...I just think the Bills Need an extra Pick more than moving up in the 2nd... But maybe that's just me... Or maybe Arizona said no way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I'm somewhat concerned that if this deal takes until draft day, we might get screwed out of it. If the Cards instead to take one of the RBs with their top pick, then we are left out in the cold. Just makes sense to me to ship Henry to them now, get Shelton and whatever other pick we can get from them. To me, getting Shelton + a lower rounder (4-6th rounder) now is better than possibly not getting anything come draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 I'm still a little surprised TD is not asking for an extra 4th instead of moving up the 11 spots...I just think the Bills Need an extra Pick more than moving up in the 2nd... But maybe that's just me... Or maybe Arizona said no way... The swap of 2nd's is basically worth a 4th round pick, going by the draft pick value chart. Better to have the higher pick to either select a player or trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 The swap of 2nd's is basically worth a 4th round pick, going by the draft pick value chart. Better to have the higher pick to either select a player or trade down. 290532[/snapback] It may very well be 6 or one half dozen, but I'd rather have the extra Pick for certain... Like I said, might just be me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCCEO Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I love it, in general picking high in the second round yields good results, whereas any pick after pick 45 or so becomes questionable. This is at least my observation. Every draft pick is a crapshoot as evidenced by guys like Zach Thomas, Tom Brady(im not trying to start a debate here) and John Lynch, or Terrance McGee for us only Bills-literate football fans. Also first rounders don't always pan out : John Avery, Jamal Reynolds, Tim Couch, Erik Flowers, Dimitrious Underwood. You never know, but usually guys in teh top of the 2nd play like they feel they got snubbed by not being in the first(Kelsay, although it didnt seem to motivate Josh Reed) I'd definately rathe rhavce the move up in the 2nd. 4th rounders are good but rarely make significant impacts, but rather fill holes until moving on to free agency for the most part. Only time will tell with this one. Either way, the quicker this deal gets done the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthTownBills51 Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Nice to see Mort giving props to a bill for a change..its the truth though..Losman would have been the first qb taken without a doubt..def has more talent then both alex smith and aaron rogers..question being what if Matt Leinhart came out?? would losman go ahead of him?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hear that, VA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJsackedagain Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 The swap of 2nd's is basically worth a 4th round pick, going by the draft pick value chart. Better to have the higher pick to either select a player or trade down. 290532[/snapback] draft pick value chart?? .... can you flip that chart over and find out when it's a good idea to go for two points instead of one??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 question being what if Matt Leinhart came out?? would losman go ahead of him?? 290549[/snapback] No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 question being what if Matt Leinhart came out?? would losman go ahead of him??********** No. Ya gotta wonder what JP would have looked like surrounded by talent in a Norm Chow offense..... Provided he didn't get hurt in Game3 trying to run over a 250lb 'backer on 2nd and 24 in the first quarter. I didn't see Utah this year, but I gotta wonder how much Leinhart and particularly Rodgers were the product of great systems run by Chow and Jeff Tedford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I love it, in general picking high in the second round yields good results, whereas any pick after pick 45 or so becomes questionable. This is at least my observation. Every draft pick is a crapshoot as evidenced by guys like Zach Thomas, Tom Brady(im not trying to start a debate here) and John Lynch, or Terrance McGee for us only Bills-literate football fans. Also first rounders don't always pan out : John Avery, Jamal Reynolds, Tim Couch, Erik Flowers, Dimitrious Underwood. You never know, but usually guys in teh top of the 2nd play like they feel they got snubbed by not being in the first(Kelsay, although it didnt seem to motivate Josh Reed) I'd definately rathe rhavce the move up in the 2nd. 4th rounders are good but rarely make significant impacts, but rather fill holes until moving on to free agency for the most part. Only time will tell with this one. Either way, the quicker this deal gets done the better. 290539[/snapback] My observation is that the entire draft is a crapshoot that I think it is much more reliably valuable to the Bills to trade Henry for a vet player even one of likely lesser value than Henry as a player but who makes our team better by fitting a valuable need to build a winning team. I'd love to see some actual stats on the point, but as best I can tell TD's estimation that even first round choices are 50/50 propositions at best has not be controverted by any posts I've seen. The draft is important because good players have to come from somewhere. However, between: 1. The draft misses which even good teams make. 2. The usual period of time that it takes most NFL rookies to get trained and schooled before they are contributors. 3. Gettomg contibution right now is more important tnan ever before in this league wher worst to first is more possible than ever. I think that most fans (distracted as I am by participation in fantasy leagues) and limited by only knowing the stats at best and not being able to look the player in the eye really over-value draft choices. Potential jist means you haven't accomplished anything yet. Even if Shelton is not the player who signed a huge FA contract, he is a clear upgrade for this team over having nothing in place at LT. His prescence even if he is merely adequate provides much flexibility and a lot of room to try different combinations on the OL. Further his cap hit fits well into the budger for building a Bills team. I'd take a player over a high draft pick (even if someone wanted to give us a 1st next year for Travis because even if this impossible event happened the 2006 pick does nothing whatsoever for this team this year. Who knows since Tom brady was a 6th round choice but even getting a 2nd for Henry straight up is likely worthless to this team right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Ya gotta wonder what JP would have looked like surrounded by talent in a Norm Chow offense.....Provided he didn't get hurt in Game3 trying to run over a 250lb 'backer on 2nd and 24 in the first quarter. I didn't see Utah this year, but I gotta wonder how much Leinhart and particularly Rodgers were the product of great systems run by Chow and Jeff Tedford. 290558[/snapback] I don't disagree at all with the sentiment. The offense at USC last season started 11 players who will take the field Sundays which is why Lienhart is coveted - he's proven he can play with talented players and seems to have his head on straight. Rodgers impressed me the couple of times I saw him but we all know the college game is ALOT different from the NFL - especially left coast offenses. I wouldn't want my franchise riding on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I saw that Mort report. I believe there must be some agreement in principle between the Cards and Bills concerning Shelton and Henry. While the press reports the 2nd round pick scenerio, it could wind up being a shift of picks in round 3, an extra 2nd day pick for the Bills or an extra conditional pick in 2006. It probably won't be made official until draft day, depending on what the Cards do in Round #1. They might be hoping to trade down a few spots,aquiring extra picks, and picking up some defensive help, rather than a QB. Then the Bills trade can be completed, knowing what extra picks they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I saw that Mort report. I believe there must be some agreement in principle between the Cards and Bills concerning Shelton and Henry. While the press reports the 2nd round pick scenerio, it could wind up being a shift of picks in round 3, an extra 2nd day pick for the Bills or an extra conditional pick in 2006. It probably won't be made official until draft day, depending on what the Cards do in Round #1. They might be hoping to trade down a few spots,aquiring extra picks, and picking up some defensive help, rather than a QB. Then the Bills trade can be completed, knowing what extra picks they have. 290580[/snapback] I'd really like to see these guys go in for physicals. At least that would mean they were ready to make the deal when the time comes. They both have recent injuries and it would surprise me if any deal is made without the physicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Hear that, VA? 290550[/snapback] Link? Also that is not numerous as you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyBillsFan Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I'm still a little surprised TD is not asking for an extra 4th instead of moving up the 11 spots...I just think the Bills Need an extra Pick more than moving up in the 2nd... But maybe that's just me... Or maybe Arizona said no way... 290523[/snapback] KO, We have not had a player that has ment anything to this team after the 2nd round since the 85-87 drafts. This is a very weak draft..... Id take the second round move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I'd really like to see these guys go in for physicals. At least that would mean they were ready to make the deal when the time comes. They both have recent injuries and it would surprise me if any deal is made without the physicals. 290582[/snapback] Shelton was in Buffalo a few weeks back. The Bills did check him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It may very well be 6 or one half dozen, but I'd rather have the extra Pick for certain... Like I said, might just be me... 290535[/snapback] Good plan- Teflon Tom has done so well with those mid-round picks in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Good plan- Teflon Tom has done so well with those mid-round picks in the past. 290628[/snapback] He has? Name one who is starting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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