VW82 Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Doc said: Russell Wilson is the exception. Not worth taking that big of a risk. So are QBs who struggle with accuracy, production, and lack of wins at each stage of their development finally learning to do all three at the highest levels of football. It's a risk either way. It doesn't matter though because we won't take him.
Doc Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, VW82 said: So are QBs who struggle with accuracy, production, and lack of wins at each stage of their development finally learning to do all three at the highest levels of football. It's a risk either way. It doesn't matter though because we won't take him. And if they had the 1st overall, they still wouldn't take him. As much as I dislike Rosen, I wouldn't give up on him so soon. But I'll wait to see how Josh looks this year now that it looks like he has some talent around him before looking to replace him. Much less with a 5'9" 190# QB.
VW82 Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Doc said: And if they had the 1st overall, they still wouldn't take him. As much as I dislike Rosen, I wouldn't give up on him so soon. But I'll wait to see how Josh looks this year now that it looks like he has some talent around him before looking to replace him. Much less with a 5'9" 190# QB. My post wasn't so much about looking to replace Josh. I agree that he showed enough toward the end of last year to warrant at least this year (and maybe next year too) to see if he can be a franchise guy. It was more about Kyler Murray. I just find him intriguing the same way I did with Baker and Wilson, and Flutie all those years ago. Maybe I just like short QBs who defy the odds. They're fun to cheer for. But again, I think Murray is going to be really good. He's a gamer. Edited March 13, 2019 by VW82
LB3 Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Lori Laughlin probably paid to have Kyler measured at the combine 1 1
Doc Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, VW82 said: My post wasn't so much about looking to replace Josh. I agree that he showed enough toward the end of last year to warrant at least this year (and maybe next year too) to see if he can be a franchise guy. It was more about Kyler Murray. I just find him intriguing the same way I did with Baker and Wilson, and Flutie all those years ago. Maybe I just like short QBs who defy the odds. They're fun to cheer for. But again, I think Murray is going to be really good. He's a gamer. I get what you're saying about wanting to see the underdog succeed, but Russell Wilson and Flutie (I wouldn't put Mayfield in that group) were later round picks. I would be fine with taking Murray, say, in the 3rd like Wilson was, but 1st overall? No way. That's far too high to take a guy with the longest odds to succeed.
mob16151 Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said: 500,000 sounds about right.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Doc said: I get what you're saying about wanting to see the underdog succeed, but Russell Wilson and Flutie (I wouldn't put Mayfield in that group) were later round picks. I would be fine with taking Murray, say, in the 3rd like Wilson was, but 1st overall? No way. That's far too high to take a guy with the longest odds to succeed. Why wouldnt you put Mayfield in that group? That is exactly his group. Especially the Flutie comparison, imo.
VW82 Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Doc said: I get what you're saying about wanting to see the underdog succeed, but Russell Wilson and Flutie (I wouldn't put Mayfield in that group) were later round picks. I would be fine with taking Murray, say, in the 3rd like Wilson was, but 1st overall? No way. That's far too high to take a guy with the longest odds to succeed. Point taken, though I'm not sure it makes sense to rely on past precedent wrt to QB size as much as we used to with the way the rules have changed. You don't have to be a giant, unbreakable human anymore to survive the QB position in the NFL. Also, I don't understand why it's ok that Mayfield went first overall but it's not ok that Murray might. Baker is what, two inches taller and 10 lbs heavier?? They're both undersized pocket QBs who had tremendous success at Oklahoma. Baker did it for two years, but Kyler's track record prior to Oklahoma suggests his Heisman wasn't remotely a fluke. He's practically a deity in Texas. Edited March 13, 2019 by VW82
Chuck Wagon Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 I am kind of curious how Murray would be viewed if he came before Baker, or if Baker fell flat on his face last year. 1
Doc Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Why wouldnt you put Mayfield in that group? That is exactly his group. Especially the Flutie comparison, imo. 16 minutes ago, VW82 said: Point taken, though I'm not sure it makes sense to rely on past precedent wrt to QB size as much as we used to with the way the rules have changed. You don't have to be a giant, unbreakable human anymore to survive the QB position in the NFL. Also, I don't understand why it's ok that Mayfield went first overall but it's not ok that Murray might. Baker is what, two inches taller and 10 lbs heavier?? They're both undersized pocket QBs who had tremendous success at Oklahoma. Baker did it for two years, but Kyler's track record prior to Oklahoma suggests his Heisman wasn't remotely a fluke. He's practically a deity in Texas. Mayfield is closer to 3" taller than Murray and a legit 215#. Murray will be hard-pressed to stay over 200#. But we'll just have to wait and see.
Mr. WEO Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, HiddenInLight said: If he was anywhere near decent his team (with a HOF WR) would not be replacing him the next year while having the first overall pick. They'd be using it to build around him. This is a GM who hired a new HC and traded up to draft Rosen last year (a 3rd and a 5th). Then he fired the new HC after one year to hire an NFL QB coach who's most recent gig was finishing 3 straight losing seasons at Texas Tech--including during Mahomes's last season (worst Div IA defense in the country). Now there is talk they would trade Rosen for a 2nd...meaning that, in the end, taking Murray as their starter would have cost them 2 #1 picks, a 3rd and a 5th....and picking up a second... for a scrawny tiny QB with 14 college starts. .....and you argument really is "these guys in AZ know what they're doing"?
HiddenInLight Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: This is a GM who hired a new HC and traded up to draft Rosen last year (a 3rd and a 5th). Then he fired the new HC after one year to hire an NFL QB coach who's most recent gig was finishing 3 straight losing seasons at Texas Tech--including during Mahomes's last season (worst Div IA defense in the country). Now there is talk they would trade Rosen for a 2nd...meaning that, in the end, taking Murray as their starter would have cost them 2 #1 picks, a 3rd and a 5th....and picking up a second... for a scrawny tiny QB with 14 college starts. .....and you argument really is "these guys in AZ know what they're doing"? My argument is that Josh Rosen isn't good, and has done nothing to prove otherwise.
Mr. WEO Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, HiddenInLight said: My argument is that Josh Rosen isn't good, and has done nothing to prove otherwise. His stats were those of Allen. Is he no good either?
The Senator Posted March 13, 2019 Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) To quote my hero, QB ‘whisperer’ Mike Leach, “Most NFL execs cannot evaluate QBs - Jamarcus Russell #1 overall, Tom Brady round 6. QED.” . Edited March 13, 2019 by The Senator
prissythecat Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 15 hours ago, HiddenInLight said: We are literally having this discussion in a thread about how everyone thinks Rosen's team is taking a QB first overall. You don't take a QB first overall to not be your starter. Therefor he is being replaced. Let me rephrase. If Rosen is being replaced, why haven’t the Cardinals admitted that he is available? Teams asked them about Rosen’s availability during combine but Cardinals would not admit it . A lot of teams have already made moves at QB so the market for Rosen is a lot smaller. And if Cardinals draft Murray while Rosen still remains on roster, wouldn’t Rosen’s trade value tank? Seems foolish to be holding on to Rosen if he is indeed being replaced.
billsredneck1 Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 On 3/2/2019 at 10:24 AM, Augie said: I think they could get him for a lot less. i think it would be an extremely smart move by the giants. trade for rosen.....maybe a 3rd. trade down a couple of times in the 1st, gain a few extra picks....grab a few olineman and a couple of wrs and start the rebuild.
4merper4mer Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 16 hours ago, Doc said: I get what you're saying about wanting to see the underdog succeed, but Russell Wilson and Flutie (I wouldn't put Mayfield in that group) were later round picks. I would be fine with taking Murray, say, in the 3rd like Wilson was, but 1st overall? No way. That's far too high to take a guy with the longest odds to succeed. Plus Flutie sucked.
PetermansRedemption Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, billsredneck1 said: i think it would be an extremely smart move by the giants. trade for rosen.....maybe a 3rd. trade down a couple of times in the 1st, gain a few extra picks....grab a few olineman and a couple of wrs and start the rebuild. That would certainly back their fans off the ledge they got on from the Beckham trade
Doc Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, prissythecat said: Let me rephrase. If Rosen is being replaced, why haven’t the Cardinals admitted that he is available? Teams asked them about Rosen’s availability during combine but Cardinals would not admit it . A lot of teams have already made moves at QB so the market for Rosen is a lot smaller. And if Cardinals draft Murray while Rosen still remains on roster, wouldn’t Rosen’s trade value tank? Seems foolish to be holding on to Rosen if he is indeed being replaced. They'll admit he's available closer to draft time. 11 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Plus Flutie sucked. He had about a season's worth of good games until he was figured-out. Or maybe it was age. I don't know. He should have come back to the NFL about 5 years earlier.
Augie Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 3 hours ago, billsredneck1 said: i think it would be an extremely smart move by the giants. trade for rosen.....maybe a 3rd. trade down a couple of times in the 1st, gain a few extra picks....grab a few olineman and a couple of wrs and start the rebuild. ....but that might hurt Eli’s feeling.... He can be a big boy and get over it. When was the last tie he was actually good?
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