947 Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 I think Harry is the most ready to be a solid contributor as a rookie out of this WR class. I don't think he makes it pick #40. I'd love a trade down & draft him in the back half of Round 1.
LABILLBACKER Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 On 3/3/2019 at 4:26 PM, Alphadawg7 said: Metclf did terrible in agility drills, he’s fast one direction. Harry gets spearation, and proved his speed at the combine and the talk he wasn’t fast enough was false. His QB sucked in college and he’s constantly waiting on passes. Don’t get me wrong, still high on Metcalf, he has highest ceiling in draft. But Harry is by far the most complete WR and has lowest floor IMO with a very high ceiling. I mean he is faster than Antonio Brown, speed to get separation is not a concern now that the combine is over. I want guys with great 3 cone/shuttle times. Guys like Edelman who can get immediate separation on the route tree. I can live with 4.5 if they run great routes and have good hands. I would lean away from DK @ 9.
CommonCents Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Just now, LABILLBACKER said: I want guys with great 3 cone/shuttle times. Guys like Edelman who can get immediate separation on the route tree. I can live with 4.5 if they run great routes and have good hands. I would lean away from DK @ 9. Harry didn’t even run the 3 cone.
LABILLBACKER Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 Just now, CommonCents said: Harry didn’t even run the 3 cone. ...and that would be a problem... Just now, CommonCents said: 1
Alphadawg7 Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I want guys with great 3 cone/shuttle times. Guys like Edelman who can get immediate separation on the route tree. I can live with 4.5 if they run great routes and have good hands. I would lean away from DK @ 9. Im for that too and I think thats what our staff is looking for as well. That being said, I am still quite high on Metcalf still. His agility scores were terrible, but saw some reports of slipping and stuff too. Haven't seen the footage myself, just the times. He is so big and fast that even if the agility drills are not great, he can still muscle his way and explode away from defenders. Harry didnt do the agility drills, but you can see on his film he is quite agile and strong. I am very high on Harry. I would love either of these two guys in the first. However, I can certainly see the value in going DL, OL, or even TE with our first pick if thats who Beane grades BPA on his board, especially given the depth of WR that will be there in 2nd too. Campbell is another very intriguing guy in the 2nd. Another guy I do like is Butler, but his catch rate scares me. He makes these big sensational catches, but also drops an alarming amount of passes at the same time. If you watch his highlight reel you feel like his is unguardable...what it doesnt show is all the other drops. I would love to come out of the draft with 2 WR's. One early in first or second thats your WR1 or WR2 type guy, then another guy in the 3rd or 4th that will be that explosive slot weapon. Edited March 7, 2019 by Alphadawg7
Alphadawg7 Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, DCOrange said: I do still like him, and granted it's highlights so it'll tend to be more about the contested catches than anything else, but he didn't really show any separation skills in this video. I don't think he's as stiff a route runner as some say, but I think his ability to get separation is a larger concern than it is for DK, who has similarly been attacked over that. I think Kelvin Harmon and JJ Arcega-Whiteside are similar prospects that can be had maybe a round later than Harry. Did you really watch the whole video? I mean he showed this multiple times, including the very first clip where he has his jersey held yanking him off his route and still accelerates out of it to get the catch and the long TD. The kickoff return showed it too, the botched WR pass showed it too, etc etc. I see lots of acceleration and agility on his tape. People forget his QB was not any good, he's often having to wait on balls. Several of these highlights were also fade type throws where there will be no separation, its a battle of position and ball placement and he made incredible plays on the ball. Edited March 7, 2019 by Alphadawg7 1
CajunBillsBacker Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I want guys with great 3 cone/shuttle times. Guys like Edelman who can get immediate separation on the route tree. I can live with 4.5 if they run great routes and have good hands. I would lean away from DK @ 9. Andy Isabella is your guy. Would have to grab him in round 2, he won’t be there in round 3.
JaCrispy Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, CajunBillsBacker said: Andy Isabella is your guy. Would have to grab him in round 2, he won’t be there in round 3. Done! Where do I sign up for that? 1
DCOrange Posted March 7, 2019 Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Did you really watch the whole video? I mean he showed this multiple times, including the very first clip where he has his jersey held yanking him off his route and still accelerates out of it to get the catch and the long TD. The kickoff return showed it too, the botched WR pass showed it too, etc etc. I see lots of acceleration and agility on his tape. People forget his QB was not any good, he's often having to wait on balls. Several of these highlights were also fade type throws where there will be no separation, its a battle of position and ball placement and he made incredible plays on the ball. I don’t think his acceleration or agility are special at all; not even sure it’s average relative to NFL WRs to be honest. But I’m also just referring to getting open on routes. That’s completely different from a kickoff return or a screen pass. He “separates” in that first clip because the guy falls over. If he can run through guys in the NFL to the point that they fall over, that’s great, but that’s not really what I’m talking about when I’m talking about getting separation on his routes. But again, getting open isn’t really going to be in a highlight package anyways so it’s not that big of a deal that it’s missing from this video. I do think that’s a weakness of his in general though. He relies on making contested catches for most of his production. It’s a good skill to have, but like I said, I think guys like Arcega-Whiteside and Harmon and possibly Butler can provide that a round later. I still have Harry rated as my #3 WR so I’d be fine with taking him in the 2nd round but I’m not sure he’s available there and even if he is, I’m not sure he’s the best value play. Still a good prospect though. Edited March 7, 2019 by DCOrange 1
Yav Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 7 hours ago, BillsfanAZ said: I wouldnt say he is the best WR in draft but he could go later in the first round. I am not a DK fan but some team will get him early. I think there are 4 or 5 WRs that are all right there at the top but the defensive talent is deep so I would be not be surprised if not many WR's are picked in the first after the run on QB's and Dlineman. Yea. I think a team like the Jets will take DK early. There’s always someone willing to reach for a kid that looks the part ignoring some key factors. Personally i I think DK is a late 2rd talent. Fast and big but not good hands. The question about PEDs and Ol Miss players is another red flag. But it I think you’re correct someone will take him early.
Yav Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: I don’t think his acceleration or agility are special at all; not even sure it’s average relative to NFL WRs to be honest. But I’m also just referring to getting open on routes. That’s completely different from a kickoff return or a screen pass. He “separates” in that first clip because the guy falls over. If he can run through guys in the NFL to the point that they fall over, that’s great, but that’s not really what I’m talking about when I’m talking about getting separation on his routes. But again, getting open isn’t really going to be in a highlight package anyways so it’s not that big of a deal that it’s missing from this video. I do think that’s a weakness of his in general though. He relies on making contested catches for most of his production. It’s a good skill to have, but like I said, I think guys like Arcega-Whiteside and Harmon and possibly Butler can provide that a round later. I still have Harry rated as my #3 WR so I’d be fine with taking him in the 2nd round but I’m not sure he’s available there and even if he is, I’m not sure he’s the best value play. Still a good prospect though. I don’t think you actually have seen this kid play at all. He doesn’t rely on contested catches his QB sucked so he was forced to make contested catches. You put out this kid in NE and Bills fans will be regretting it for years to come. He can separate. Teams played off because they couldn’t jam him at the line. ASU couldn’t figure out how to get him the ball due to poor QB play, mid season ASU became a run first team so Harry blocked a lot (another thing he’s good at). This highlight reel shows him pulling away from people, because he can accelerate. Don’t confuse the lack of separation in this reel as proof of him not being capable of it. He runs very good routes (ala Robert Woods). He will need to learn the entire tree but he has strong hands and can catch the ball. With a big WR that offers a huge catch radius and ability to win the contested catches that really helps a QB as they don’t have to be perfect all the time. 2
CommonCents Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Yav said: I don’t think you actually have seen this kid play at all. He doesn’t rely on contested catches his QB sucked so he was forced to make contested catches. You put out this kid in NE and Bills fans will be regretting it for years to come. He can separate. Teams played off because they couldn’t jam him at the line. ASU couldn’t figure out how to get him the ball due to poor QB play, mid season ASU became a run first team so Harry blocked a lot (another thing he’s good at). This highlight reel shows him pulling away from people, because he can accelerate. Don’t confuse the lack of separation in this reel as proof of him not being capable of it. He runs very good routes (ala Robert Woods). He will need to learn the entire tree but he has strong hands and can catch the ball. With a big WR that offers a huge catch radius and ability to win the contested catches that really helps a QB as they don’t have to be perfect all the time. I respect the homer thing and I understand. Sometimes I have a hard time rating LSU guys. You have gone full Skydiver on the board. Lance Zierlien’s scouting report on Harry... -Feet not quick enough in stutter release vs. press -Tends to wear tight press coverage for much of the route -NFL corners likely to squat on and squeeze his breaks and turns -Too upright slowing his route breaks -Below average stop-start quickness to elude defenders. All of that contradicts what you’re saying. All of that meshes with a guy who didn’t want to run timed agility drills. All of that also is what I saw from what I watched of Harry. I also agree all of those weaknesses would be masked by a pin point passer. ThAt’s not Josh Allen and I don’t ever think it will be. Harry is 34 year old Larry Fitzgerald. I’m sure of it. Edited March 8, 2019 by CommonCents 1
Yav Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, CommonCents said: I respect the homer thing and I understand. Sometimes I have a hard time rating LSU guys. You have gone full Skydiver on the board. Lance Zierlien’s scouting report on Harry... -Feet not quick enough in stutter release vs. press -Tends to wear tight press coverage for much of the route -NFL corners likely to squat on and squeeze his breaks and turns -Too upright slowing his route breaks -Below average stop-start quickness to elude defenders. All of that contradicts what you’re saying. All of that meshes with a guy who didn’t want to run timed agility drills. All of that also is what I saw from what I watched of Harry. I also agree all of those weaknesses would be masked by a pin point passer. ThAt’s not Josh Allen and I don’t ever think it will be. Harry is 34 year old Larry Fitzgerald. I’m sure of it. Yet some scouts feel he’s the best WR coming out of the draft. Some “draft experts” feel he’s pro ready and a first round talent. Opinions varry. If people want to claim DK is the best then it’s not too far fetch to state a high character kid with strong hands who can catch and win contested catches is the better option. I actually think Harry is going to be Somali to Bolin. Also Harry did great with a crappy QB so there’s no need for pin point accuracy.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 8, 2019 Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, DCOrange said: I don’t think his acceleration or agility are special at all; not even sure it’s average relative to NFL WRs to be honest. But I’m also just referring to getting open on routes. That’s completely different from a kickoff return or a screen pass. He “separates” in that first clip because the guy falls over. If he can run through guys in the NFL to the point that they fall over, that’s great, but that’s not really what I’m talking about when I’m talking about getting separation on his routes. But again, getting open isn’t really going to be in a highlight package anyways so it’s not that big of a deal that it’s missing from this video. I do think that’s a weakness of his in general though. He relies on making contested catches for most of his production. It’s a good skill to have, but like I said, I think guys like Arcega-Whiteside and Harmon and possibly Butler can provide that a round later. I still have Harry rated as my #3 WR so I’d be fine with taking him in the 2nd round but I’m not sure he’s available there and even if he is, I’m not sure he’s the best value play. Still a good prospect though. Fair enough, but I still think he has more separation than you’re giving him credit for. Some of those guys you named later had pretty bad 40 times though. And Butler has a terrible catch rate. I’m still intrigued by Butler, but he has questionable hands despite having the ability to make highlight catches. Weary of someone who drops that many passes. I’d still be fine taking him in the 2nd, but I’m not as excited about him as some are just over hands concerns. Edited March 8, 2019 by Alphadawg7
Aussie Joe Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 Post Free Agency, I have had a change of heart about Harry... I think he would compliment our other receivers nicely... If he is there at 40 you definitely take him... I could possibly consider trading up to 30 for him.. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Post Free Agency, I have had a change of heart about Harry... I think he would compliment our other receivers nicely... If he is there at 40 you definitely take him... I could possibly consider trading up to 30 for him.. I think he goes first round 1
Aussie Joe Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think he goes first round Yeah maybe... Where would you consider picking him though? I couldn’t pick him before late 20s and I think you take him with your second pick and trade up.. 1
Tipster19 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Posted March 19, 2019 I would like to see the Bills move up into the end of the 1st rd so they can have a 5th year option on Harry. The Chiefs have the 29th overall pick. I would think that they would make a good trade partner.
DevilsAlum Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 Having watched every ASU game for the past few seasons (I'm an alum) I can say that Henry had an amazing career at ASU and I would love to see him in a Bills uniform. While I'm not an expert, Henry caught everything thrown in his direction, which might be helpful with a QB who struggles with accuracy. He's also been the focus of ASU's passing offense so that means he's been the focus of the DCs and yet the kid gets open every game. His QB, Manny Wilkins, was not accurate at all and would just chuck the ball of and let Henry make plays. While Henry's made a number of unbelievable catches, take a look at his punt returns and rads after catch and contact. 1 1
BuffAlone Posted March 19, 2019 Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, DevilsAlum said: Having watched every ASU game for the past few seasons (I'm an alum) I can say that Henry had an amazing career at ASU and I would love to see him in a Bills uniform. While I'm not an expert, Henry caught everything thrown in his direction, which might be helpful with a QB who struggles with accuracy. He's also been the focus of ASU's passing offense so that means he's been the focus of the DCs and yet the kid gets open every game. His QB, Manny Wilkins, was not accurate at all and would just chuck the ball of and let Henry make plays. While Henry's made a number of unbelievable catches, take a look at his punt returns and rads after catch and contact. You watched every game? Well then, can you please tell me who Henry is? 2
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