OGTEleven Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 This post is part opinion and part prediction. As Terri Schiavo dies of dehydration and starvation, the attorney for her husband has told us all that she is doing so painlessly and peacefully. Morphine has been administered to her, so it seems as if there may be some pain being felt. This isn't meant to be a thread about whether she should be kept on a feeding tube or not. It is about what I think will happen next (I hope I'm wrong). Currently the majority of articles in the press describe the "rational" arguments for pulling the tube and the "wildly flailing and emotional arguments" for keeping it in. They paint a picture that we are supposed to see in a certain way. Terry is compared with various forms of plant life and made fun of in the press and on this site and others. This is what disturbs me the most. Opinion: Human life is important and its value is being defaced in this process. Prediction: Felos and his gang will take it to the next level some months (probably about 4) after Terri's death. They will "discover" how much pain she went through in this process and argue that others in her situation should be spared this pain. This will be a gradual process of course, but over the years there will be attempts to raise the standard for what constitutes "life" and which "illusions" should be put to an end. Felos and others like him will lead the charge. It starts with a feeding tube, then maybe a wheelchair, or a voicebox, or whatever. It never really ends. I know this is a slippery slope argument, but it is there in front of us happening. I don't think it is a socialist vs. capitalist thing per se, but it does involve people who have a "utopian" view of what is best for society. They feel they are smarter than others and can be the judges of what value a life has. They may or may not succeed in their efforts, but they are wrong regardless of their future "successes". Human life has value and always will whether our society recognizes it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 They talked about the morphine... It is done to comfort the family, get past our irrational emotions. Believe that if you will. The drug serves nothing on pain for TS... She has NO PAIN. My thinking is... It probably also calms everything down. Our irrational emotions would get stuck on things the body does that APPEAR TO BE CAUSING PAIN. Again, she feels no pain... All worldly sensations or gone. I suppose, involuntary twitching, what not would be unsettling? Irrational emotions. Now is the time to turn your Dr. Spock switch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 The drug serves nothing on pain for TS... She has NO PAIN. 290571[/snapback] Again, you know this for 100% certain HOW? You don't. If you say you do, you're a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Again, you know this for 100% certain HOW? You don't. If you say you do, you're a liar. 290605[/snapback] It is like working on your electricity AFTER you shut the power off? Do you go to the panel, shut off the circuit... Then question if the power is really shut off? I suppose you could always be woried? Stick a meter on it, nada, zip, no reading or voltage... But, still worry? Her brain imaging proves it. Can't happen in the state she is in. I suppose there is actual tests and data out there? I TRUST the medical community and science on this one. Not my IRRATIONAL fear that she is feeling anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It is like working on your electricity AFTER you shut the power off? Do you go to the panel, shut off the circuit... Then question if the power is really shut off? I suppose you could always be woried? Stick a meter on it, nada, zip, no reading or voltage... But, still worry? Her brain imaging proves it. Can't happen in the state she is in. I suppose there is actual tests and data out there? I TRUST the medical community and science on this one. Not my IRRATIONAL fear that she is feeling anything. 290616[/snapback] It does? All the brain imaging proves is that she's suffered brain damage in the parts of the brain that scientists THINK handle pain. Again, they THINK. They don't KNOW, they THINK they know. Since she can't say "HEY! that hurts!" we'll never really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGTEleven Posted March 30, 2005 Author Share Posted March 30, 2005 They talked about the morphine... It is done to comfort the family, get past our irrational emotions. Believe that if you will. The drug serves nothing on pain for TS... She has NO PAIN. My thinking is... It probably also calms everything down. Our irrational emotions would get stuck on things the body does that APPEAR TO BE CAUSING PAIN. Again, she feels no pain... All worldly sensations or gone. I suppose, involuntary twitching, what not would be unsettling? Irrational emotions. Now is the time to turn your Dr. Spock switch on. 290571[/snapback] A. Way to stick to the overall point of the thread. B. Am I to understand that the "rational" doctors are administering a drug that they know is useless? This drug is being given as a placebo for other people? Ok. Would it be malpractice for a doctor to prescribe a drug that is not needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It does? All the brain imaging proves is that she's suffered brain damage in the parts of the brain that scientists THINK handle pain. Again, they THINK. They don't KNOW, they THINK they know. Since she can't say "HEY! that hurts!" we'll never really know. No, doctors KNOW that pain is processed in the cerebral cortex as an unpleasant sensation and thus suffering. Without such processing, painful stimuli is merely information that is relayed mechanically/chemically/electrically, kind of like a computer would "feel" it. And again, there have been no reports that she's in pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It is like working on your electricity AFTER you shut the power off? Do you go to the panel, shut off the circuit... Then question if the power is really shut off? I suppose you could always be woried? Stick a meter on it, nada, zip, no reading or voltage... But, still worry? Her brain imaging proves it. Can't happen in the state she is in. I suppose there is actual tests and data out there? I TRUST the medical community and science on this one. Not my IRRATIONAL fear that she is feeling anything. 290616[/snapback] Gee thanks, Doc. Don't you have a lock door to open or close? Fact: We can't stop the common cold and doctors work mostly from accepted THEORIES. Repeating these theories over and over DO NOT MAKE THEM FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 It is like working on your electricity AFTER you shut the power off? Do you go to the panel, shut off the circuit... Then question if the power is really shut off? I suppose you could always be woried? Stick a meter on it, nada, zip, no reading or voltage... But, still worry? Her brain imaging proves it. Can't happen in the state she is in. I suppose there is actual tests and data out there? I TRUST the medical community and science on this one. Not my IRRATIONAL fear that she is feeling anything. 290616[/snapback] I can cite two cases I saw on television that by your criteria should be in PVS. Both are in college. 1. First instance- A person (can remember if it was a boy or girl) had severe epilepsy. The only way to stop the seizures was to remove HALF of their brain. They took out one hemisphere of the brain. Saw the Cat scan- space on one side of the skull. 2. There was a teenage girl that was normal and got in a minor traffic accident. They gave her a CAT scan and found that most of her brain cavity was fluid! Her brain was only an inch of tissue lining her skull. TS is not brain dead, flatlining on brain waves as some have said. If so, she would need a respirator and a pacemaker to keep her alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 This post is part opinion and part prediction. As Terri Schiavo dies of dehydration and starvation, the attorney for her husband has told us all that she is doing so painlessly and peacefully. Morphine has been administered to her, so it seems as if there may be some pain being felt. Though the press reports someone (I believe it was MS' lawyer ) as saying that was the purpose for the morphine, that is really not true. Morphine is given as a standard of course in end-of-life scenarios in order to ease breathing. GG's site cites many end-of-life related sites if you put in 'morphine "ease beathing"' Two 5mg doses were given, as opposed to the 50mg-200mg doses. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&tab...eathing%22&sa=N This thread was already hijacked, so I thought I would put it here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I can cite two cases I saw on television that by your criteria should be in PVS. Both are in college.1. First instance- A person (can remember if it was a boy or girl) had severe epilepsy. The only way to stop the seizures was to remove HALF of their brain. They took out one hemisphere of the brain. Saw the Cat scan- space on one side of the skull. 2. There was a teenage girl that was normal and got in a minor traffic accident. They gave her a CAT scan and found that most of her brain cavity was fluid! Her brain was only an inch of tissue lining her skull. TS is not brain dead, flatlining on brain waves as some have said. If so, she would need a respirator and a pacemaker to keep her alive. 290920[/snapback] She is not brain dead, but incapable of performing any voluntary function, including awareness or even the most basic of voluntary motor movements. Her cerebral cortex, which controls such function, is gone. The involuntary, which controls breathing, heart beats, digestion (but not swallowing other than reflexive) and the reflexive system, are all functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 2. There was a teenage girl that was normal and got in a minor traffic accident. They gave her a CAT scan and found that most of her brain cavity was fluid! Her brain was only an inch of tissue lining her skull. I think she was one of those martians from the movie mars attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Gee thanks, Doc. Don't you have a lock door to open or close? Fact: We can't stop the common cold and doctors work mostly from accepted THEORIES. Repeating these theories over and over DO NOT MAKE THEM FACT. 290858[/snapback] You felt the need to throw in an insult and personal attack? In the future, just say sector gate... You will sound smarter. Anyway, I glady accept your fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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