Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Philo Beddoe said:

 

I think there is a good chance Zay had that intensity and confidence coming out of college, but it was then completely shattered early on his rookie season. He has had to build himself back up mentally ever since.

 

Zay went from big fish in the small pond at ECU to the small fish who came up short in the much bigger pond. I can see how that set him back mentally and when you don't have any elite measurables then it's even tougher to right the ship, so to speak. 

 

That being said he has been busting his ass this offseason so I'm pulling for him to put it together. 

I'll add this, too:  We all know McD is big on character issues - competitor, teammate, determination to improve, etc.  He evaluates everything about a guy, and we only see about 10%.   McD knows, or thinks he knows, what kind of guy every one of his players is.   None of us sees all the things he sees about Zay.  What we DO see is Zay getting a lot of reps, and that makes it quite likely that Zay has the character McD wants.  

 

We also know that it often takes receivers two or three years to emerge.   So give Zay that, too. 

 

Finally, we also know that Zay had Taylor throwing to him in his rookie year and a rookie QB in his second year.   This is the first season he has a guy with talent and experience throwing.   

 

Put it all together, and although it may be true that he might not make the team, it's also true that he might be solidly the number two wideout beside Brown with no one else coming close.  

 

I'm finding I'm not overly interested in training camp, other than the injury reports.  I want to see performance in real games, and that's still six weeks away.  

[njbuff]

Josh Allen seems to be a QB that doesn't need a superstar WR to be a mega-franchise QB.

 

He just needs guys that can hold onto the DARN BALL.

[123719bwiqrb]

That drop in Miami last year during the last drive was brutal.  I'd cut him on that alone.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Josh Allen seems to be a QB that doesn't need a superstar WR to be a mega-franchise QB.

 

He just needs guys that can hold onto the DARN BALL.

I agree with this.   That means, in my opinion, that Zay is good enough to be a regular contributor (notwithstanding that he's had a little difficulty holding on on occasion).   But that isn't the question here.  The question is Zay's future in Buffalo.  He may be good enough to be a contributor, but better contributor may arise, and that puts Zay at risk.  

[The Wiz]

So.... Is mrags staying??? 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with this.   That means, in my opinion, that Zay is good enough to be a regular contributor (notwithstanding that he's had a little difficulty holding on on occasion).   But that isn't the question here.  The question is Zay's future in Buffalo.  He may be good enough to be a contributor, but better contributor may arise, and that puts Zay at risk.  

 

Yup, and that was the basis of my thoughts back in February really, that I was skeptical he would rise to the occasion when tested with better competition around him.  

 

All in all, this thread has been a lot of fun.  I enjoyed all the back and forth on both sides, even enjoying the debate with Thurman last day or two.  I don't have an issue with people feeling different about his future at all, said it from day 1 of this post.  I expect them to defend their mindset, as do I, and many have done so and its created a lot of good back and forth from both sides of the discussion IMO, so its been fun.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

If anything, watching Thurman throw haymakers has made this thread a little more entertaining.

 

Haymakers.

 

Because he’s dominating.

I think it’s all ridiculous and valuable life minutes that have been wasted by many.  

[freddyjj]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Say more, please?

 

Drops, lack of focus.  Could be trade bait. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

49 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think it’s all ridiculous and valuable life minutes that have been wasted by many.  

 

Then this whole message board is

[Thurmal34]

On 2/27/2019 at 3:46 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

I could be wrong, but this is just what I believe based on the additions I expect Beane to make in the WR room.  I have no issues if others don't agree, just my opinion on the matter, nothing more.  

 

I have consistently said this all off season, and McDermott just said something again that enforces that belief.  I think they see how the Rams cleared out their WR room and so did the Bears and in both cases their young QB's took big strides as passers.  Eagles did the same for Wentz too.  

 

"We're looking for guys that can get open and catch the ball."  Yes, that is an obvious trait for any WR, but also its telling that he and Beane keep making these comments given the struggles all year, including Zay, to do these very basic things.  

 

I think the WR room will be crowded once free agency and the draft is over (likely 2 to 3 additions) and Zay is going to be someone who has to really impress in camp to make this roster.   Right now, there is not one part of being a wide receiver that Zay does particularly well outside of his reported good work ethic.  

 

1. Hands:  Struggles catching the ball.  Makes easy catches look hard and drops too many passes.
2. Separation:  Has struggled to get separation, especially playing on the outside.  
3. Route Running:  Part of his issue with getting separation is his inconsistent route running.
4. Speed:  He has average speed.  He is fast enough to play in the league, but to be consistent with his speed he needs to be a good route runner.  
5. Physicality:  He is easily man handled by physical corners.  Games like the Lions and Pats this year he was dominated physically for example.  
6. Contested Catches:  One of the weakest part of his game.
7. Catch Radius:  Very limited mostly due to his inconsistent hands and lack of physicality.  

 

Foster:  Penciled in as a projected #2 WR.  However, if we bring in a potential starter in FA and also draft one early, then Foster is no lock for #2 and could be used more out of the slot or as a deep threat.  Additionally, if we draft say Metcalf or make a splashy trade for someone like Brown (less likely), then Duke could make a real challenge for #2 as a big catch radius compliment to a #1 who poses a real deep threat opposite him. 

 

Duke:  He has to prove himself in the NFL, I get that.  But if we take an honest assessment of him, his issues were never talent related.  He isn't a speed burner, but he has a big catch radius, runs good routes, and has great hands.  He could legit compete for the #2 opposite a big play #1.  Even if not a #2, its more than reasonable he has a legit shot to make this team and compete for minutes.  

 

Zay:  Best suited for the slot, however his lack of consistent hands and his issues with separation make his spot there vulnerable.  If our top 2 WR's this next season dont include Foster, then I can easily see Foster challenging to play in the slot, and he already has surpassed Zay.  

 

We are adding at least 2 additonal WR's (and maybe 3) this offseason expected to start or compete to start to go along with the 3 guys already here.  With McD and Beanes consistent comments about getting open and catching the ball, I think Zay is in trouble and will be a training camp or preseason trade for a 4th round or conditional 5th round pick.  

 

So much “I don’t get it”

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with this.   That means, in my opinion, that Zay is good enough to be a regular contributor (notwithstanding that he's had a little difficulty holding on on occasion).   But that isn't the question here.  The question is Zay's future in Buffalo.  He may be good enough to be a contributor, but better contributor may arise, and that puts Zay at risk.  

 

 

The question of the thread isn't his future, it's his future this year. Zay was not at much risk this year, going into his third, having been pointed up.

 

Going forwards, sure. As usual it will depend on a lot of things, his contract, the competition, etc. But how many people on this team aren't at risk going forward if a better contributor arises?

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

"I think we all can agree that Zay Jones is trending up."

 

-  Brandon Beane in the 2018 post-season press conference

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/12/31/18163024/buffalo-bills-end-of-season-press-conference-open-thread-sean-mcdermott-brandon-beane-josh-allen

 

 

 

 

NOW to address this ^ above.

 

This party above is COMICAL to me...you are basing all your opinion on him saying "Trending up" after Zay had his best game of his career (still nothing spectacular, less than 70 yards, but he got 2 TD's so it was a good game, but not like he dominated the game).  "TRENDING" is now supposed to be some ringing endorsement of him?  Yet you IGNORE all the comments and quotes made AFTER that during the offseason where he literally stated he wants to see accountable guys do it consistently.  Zay has never once in his career had back to back good games...but I guess in your mind, despite only having Zay, Foster, and McKenzie on the roster where Foster had three 100 yard games over the final 7, that somehow Zay is immune to these comments?  LMFAO.  

 

Beane said multiple times, but specifically on February 28th of the offseason (when we only had Zay, Foster and McKenzie still on the roster from guys who played down the stretch):  This was in response to the guys STILL on the roster at the WR position and if he felt they had solved the starting WR roles:  "I think we have some different flavors there, but to say we've solved that, I can't sit here and say that we have.  I think we've got some guys that have shown flashes of what they can they do, BUT WE NEED SOMEONE THATS ACCONTABLE THAT CAN DO IT FOR THE WHOLE SEASON, and can these guys do it?"

 

Literally stated he wants guys who are accountable and do it the WHOLE season!  He would then add. " We're trying to create competition, and add as much value, and let the best man win".  

 

I Mean he LITERALLY makes no commitment to any of the WR's in his comments and references them not playing to a high level consistently.  

 

In the New England game, for example, he played pretty well throughout, getting open but not getting thrown to even when open. The first throw to him on the first drive is a sad case. He's wide open over the middle for 12 yards or so and Allen just stone misses him. In that game he had five catches on 9 targets for 67 yards and a TD. And if Allen had hit him on that play it would've been 6 catches on 10 targets for 80 yards or more and a TD. Your continual insistence that it is a "fact" that it wasn't a good game ... well, it's a bit daft. One might say bonkers.

 

Dude go watch the NE game...was not a good game at all. (Dude, I have watched it, as recently as the day before yesterday. Zay got open consistently many times when he wasn't thrown to. Nonetheless he still had decent production. Your inability to see this really is pretty cockamamie.)  You are literally just making this up and not basing it off the game.  Zay was ZERO FOR ZERO with like 6 minutes left in the game. (Yeah, breaking news, it's not a receiver's job to catch balls not thrown to him even if he's open. And part of the reason he was zero for zero was that Allen completely missed him wide open over the middle in that first drive.)  He was consistently taken off his routes, struggled with the physicality in that game, etc.  Nothing you can possibly say will make that a good game (you're right. It's a good game by itself and that's almost surely part of the reason Beane says he's trending up and believes everyone can see it) ..you BELIEVE it was a good game because you read a stat sheet and saw that late game gimme stats.  Talk to me after you have watched the WHOLE game again.  (Cue up the "I did watch it again lie" because I know you didn't based on your accounting of it).  I still have the whole season on my DVR minus the first 2 games and the NP and DA games which I couldn't bear to keep.  

 

At the end of the day, its all good like I said many times.  I don't care you feel differently, its an opinion you are entitled to.  I don't care if ultimately my thoughts on him being traded are wrong, it was a bold prediction when I made it and honestly, hope I am wrong and he has a big year for us.  BUT...I now and always will 100% stand by my original criticisms you call wacky that a LOT of other respected posters agreed with.  

 

GO Bills, GO Zay

 

And like I said earlier, I agree to disagree on his 2nd season and its all good.  

 

 

 

 

Fine, you can agree to disagree on his second season. Thing is, you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think you're just disagreeing with me. It's not you versus me.

 

It's you versus Beane ... and McDermott and the press and the pundits and pretty much every single person out there but a very few on this board. Yeah, I'm in there with them, but it's not you versus one guy. It's you laughably, daftly thinking you know more about the Bills than pretty much everyone else in the universe.

 

Your argument that Beane was referring to the last game only ... I can't decide if it was more nutso or more pathetic. One game isn't a trend, in anyone's book. A game is a data point, maybe an outlier. A trend is "a line of general direction or movement," to quote Merriam Webster. A game is not a line. It's a dot. Your  Several games start to become a trend. And again, Beane didn't say just that Zay was trending up. He said we can all agree that Zay was trending up. Daffily pretending that he'd say that after one game just shows the bizarre contortions a guy has to go into to support arguments that were completely bats in the belfry to begin with.

 

Although it's right up there with your other equally wackadoo argument. As you noted, they said that they need receivers that can get open and catch. Did they say that any of the receivers they have now can't get open and catch? Or did he say "We haven't solved it yet." Yeah, they needed more guys and they need further development from the guys who were there. That simply isn't all that negative a statement, particularly from a team that was going to go out and get a couple of FAs.

 

About a guy in his second year who has missed two offseasons and was trending up the last half of the season, not very negative at all.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Thurman#1

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Chemical said:

 

Then this whole message board is

Imo, there’s worthwhile discussion and then there’s this.  58 pages of it.

 

  Zay was bad vs the pats!! — no he wasn’t, look at his stats—-he didn’t have any stats til garbage time— every player has garbage time stats—- Zay wont be on the team—— how can you say that?—— he sucked in most of his games with JA.

 

58 pages later.  ?

[Locomark]

The funny thing about this original post is suggesting his worth of a 4th or 5th round pick. In today’s NFL a no name WR has no value other than in a trade for a similar limited value player. Heck, Shady may not even fetch a 3rd rounder these days and he is awesome relative to Zay. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Locomark

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

I don't see Zay breaking out as a super star. But, he has shown the ability at times to get open and be an ok or decent possession receiver. He has more competition this year and has shown to be working on his craft and still getting better. I just don't see an extremely high ceiling he doesn't have allot of size or speed so he has to be perfect on his route tree and smart to make up for it. 

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

I don't see Zay breaking out as a super star. But, he has shown the ability at times to get open and be an ok or decent possession receiver. He has more competition this year and has shown to be working on his craft and still getting better. I just don't see an extremely high ceiling he doesn't have allot of size or speed so he has to be perfect on his route tree and smart to make up for it. 

 

 

He averages 1.6 yards of separation on targets.  Ranking him in the top 40 of WRs last season.  Getting separation has been one of his best attributes.

 

I'm looking forward to a big year.  I know Smoky is getting a lot of hype....but I expect Zay to put it all together this year and be a monster.  

 

Fyi I'm targeting him late in fantasy.  Round 10 or 11 probably.  

[Boca BIlls]

So reporting Zay still on this team as of Aug 3.

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Imo, there’s worthwhile discussion and then there’s this.  58 pages of it.

 

  Zay was bad vs the pats!! — no he wasn’t, look at his stats—-he didn’t have any stats til garbage time— every player has garbage time stats—- Zay wont be on the team—— how can you say that?—— he sucked in most of his games with JA.

 

58 pages later.  ?

 

I’m glad you think a gimme TD on the last play of a blow out loss is a good game.  LMFAO

 

Some of you don’t seem to know the difference between Fantasy Football and real football on the field.

 

The funniest part is you want to argue this crap game as good while ignoring in 3 of the 4 previous games to the NE game (all with Josh, Zay did nothing too).  Somehow you guys are clinging to life on an embarrassing loss when he was shut down until the game was out of reach.  

Edited August 3, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[njbuff]

How has this thread reached 58 pages?

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I’m glad you think a gimme TD on the last play of a blow out loss is a good game.  LMFAO

 

Some of you don’t seem to know the difference between Fantasy Football and real football on the field.

 

The funniest part is you want to argue this crap game as good while ignoring in 3 of the 4 previous games to the NE game (all with Josh, Zay did nothing too).  Somehow you guys are clinging to life on an embarrassing loss when he was shut down until the game was out of reach.  

What are you talking about?  Where did I say I thought he had a good game?  I was recapping the back and forth of this thread.....all 58 pages of it.  You get so defensive and even  throw in AN ALL CAPS LMFAO.......to someone who isn’t even arguing with you.  Man.....if there’s ever been a post to put an end to this thread, it’s that one.  

 

This thread is no longer contributing to the community

Edited August 4, 2019 by NewEra