Warcodered Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm sure the coaches will all be glad to know that they can just close up training camp and go home now. To be fair that's a pretty safe guess to make there's a good chance that might be what happens.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 Just now, Warcodered said: To be fair that's a pretty safe guess to make there's a good chance that might be what happens. I agree that right now, there's a good chance that's how it shakes down, but I don't think it's "set in stone" quite yet.
Thurman#1 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Um whoever said he was getting cut? Not me, nothing in my OP or any post after. I started this thread and even said he would not be cut. I thought he could be a trade candidate in preseason. It was pretty silly if anyone else suggested he would be cut. Very true. You are set up to be to be somewhat less wrong than anyone who thought he'd be cut.
Nextmanup Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/27/2019 at 11:36 PM, FeelingOnYouboty said: So he’s not getting cut like folks was promising me lol Which folks was promising you?
Thurman#1 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) On 7/28/2019 at 6:26 AM, Alphadawg7 said: In 3 of his last 4 games last year when Allen was playing better he was dominated badly by Jets, Lions and Pats. Like physically dominated, pushed off his routes, etc. He struggled a lot with press coverage and opposing teams top CBs. It’s easy to give him a pass on the QBs, it’s a whole other thing to watch him struggle against opponents top opposition and struggle to beat the press, separate, and be taken out of games. Im pulling for him, but he earned his criticisms on the field both of the last 2 seasons. Good news is Zay recognized that (or his coaches did) and spent the offseason getting stronger. Hoping it translates on the field to him taking his game to a new level. That's just nonsense. I credit you for being consistent, but that's about all. He played quite well the last two games, getting open even when he wasn't thrown to. He improved a lot the second half of the season after missing a lot of his offseason work in both of his first two years. That was seen by nearly everyone, certainly including the FO. You wanna ignore it, that's fine, but the people who know what they were expecting from him were happy. He did earn his criticism, particularly in the first half of the year. In the second half there just wasn't much criticism except from you and a few others on these boards. Yeah, fair enough that he got owned by Slay, an elite CB but in the other games he was very solid. As for others who got owned by Slay the last couple of years you'd have to count Stefon Diggs, Mike Evans (2 catches for 25 yards) and Julio Jones among others. If getting taken out of the game by Slay means you aren't good, just about nobody in the league covered by him would be considered good. Hell, Antonio Brown was thrown to a way above average 15 times against Slay in 2017 and had a below average day of it in spite of all those targets, and his one big catch, a 30-yarder came when Slay was elsewhere. Beckham had four catches for 36 yards against Slay in 2017. Edited July 29, 2019 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) On 7/28/2019 at 4:35 AM, Alphadawg7 said: For a refresher and clarity since this thread was started 6 months ago: I never said he wouldn’t make roster as in get cut. I posted in the original post I felt he would be a trade candidate in preseason with a deeper WR group providing better competition as I wasn’t confident in him stepping up against said better competition. And like I said before, I stand by how I felt the day I wrote this post, I will be very happy to be wrong and Zay becomes a good starting WR. Actually pulling for him, nothing personal against him, just was very disappointed in his overall body of work going into the offseason, including last year. You may not hate the guy but many of your posts here have been a lot more personal and frankly wacky than you're trying to appear here. Quick example: On 2/28/2019 at 12:54 PM, Alphadawg7 said: More from McD: “At the end of the day I’m looking for a guy that can affect a defense, from a matchup standpoint, and a guy that people have to be mindful of,” McDermott said. “Other than that I want them to get open, catch the ball and put the ball down - and then come back and do it again.” Hmmmmm...how many of these traits are strengths of Zay that McD wants from his WR's? Affect a defense from a matchup standpoint: Nope A guy that people have to be mindful of: Nope Gets open: Nope Catch the ball: Nope Come back and do it again (consistency): Nope Apparently, the guy can't do anything. You've gone way out into the wackzone with the "You can't count this play because I would rather you didn't even though it happened" nonsense that is one of the first calling cards of people with an unbalanced stance on any issue. Your idea that he didn't get better in the second half - repeated again and again along with a number of plays that we should pretend didn't happen - has also been pretty bizarre. If you'd really only said what you refer to in your post here, it would have been a somewhat improbable but unwacky stance. But you've gone well beyond that, and that's what has been wacky. It sure has looked like you're not pulling for him, though obviously nobody but you can speak to that. Edited July 29, 2019 by Thurman#1 1
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: As for others who got owned by Slay the last couple of years you'd have to count Stefon Diggs, Mike Evans (2 catches for 25 yards) and Julio Jones among others. If getting taken out of the game by Slay means you aren't good, just about nobody in the league covered by him would be considered good. Hell, Antonio Brown was thrown to a way above average 15 times against Slay in 2017 and had a below average day of it in spite of all those targets, and his one big catch, a 30-yarder came when Slay was elsewhere. Beckham had four catches for 36 yards against Slay in 2017. Yea. Slay is just really, really, really freaking good. The lack of national media attention he gets because he plays for the Lions just proves how much the NFL media coverage plays to the big "fashionable" markets.
Alphadawg7 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Posted July 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: That's just nonsense. I credit you for being consistent, but that's about all. He played quite well the last two games, getting open even when he wasn't thrown to. He improved a lot the second half of the season after missing a lot of his offseason work in both of his first two years. That was seen by nearly everyone, certainly including the FO. You wanna ignore it, that's fine, but the people who know what they were expecting from him were happy. He did earn his criticism, particularly in the first half of the year. In the second half there just wasn't much criticism except from you and a few others on these boards. Yeah, fair enough that he got owned by Slay, an elite CB but in the other games he was very solid. As for others who got owned by Slay the last couple of years you'd have to count Stefon Diggs, Mike Evans (2 catches for 25 yards) and Julio Jones among others. If getting taken out of the game by Slay means you aren't good, just about nobody in the league covered by him would be considered good. Hell, Antonio Brown was thrown to a way above average 15 times against Slay in 2017 and had a below average day of it in spite of all those targets, and his one big catch, a 30-yarder came when Slay was elsewhere. Beckham had four catches for 36 yards against Slay in 2017. All good man, but I got to say stop reading stat sheets and watch the NE game. He was terrible and had 0 catches for 0 yards until the game was over with about 6 min left in the game when NE was up 3 scores and played soft to chew clock. He was completely taken out of the NE game and did not play well. But a few late catches when game was over a gimme TD on last play of a 3 score blow out made his stat sheet look productive. I have a MUCH higher standard than that. Again, he was utterly useless in 3 straight games before the final Miami game. Nothing against Jets, Lions or Pats until he got a few mercy catches against a soft D allowing clock to run to end a blow out game.
Alphadawg7 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: You may not hate the guy but many of your posts here have been a lot more personal and frankly wacky than you're trying to appear here. Quick example: Apparently, the guy can't do anything. You've gone way out into the wackzone with the "You can't count this play because I would rather you didn't even though it happened" nonsense that is one of the first calling cards of people with an unbalanced stance on any issue. Your idea that he didn't get better in the second half - repeated again and again along with a number of plays that we should pretend didn't happen - has also been pretty bizarre. If you'd really only said what you refer to in your post here, it would have been a somewhat improbable but unwacky stance. But you've gone well beyond that, and that's what has been wacky. It sure has looked like you're not pulling for him, though obviously nobody but you can speak to that. Everything I wrote in that list was a fair assessment about his first two seasons, without question. Does NOT mean he cant improve, never said he couldn't take a step forward. I said I lack the confidence in him doing so and have questioned his mental toughness to be counted on as he hasn't dealt well with adversary at times and has come up short in key moments multiple times that directly affected our ability to win games in both seasons. But sorry, these are facts about this first 2 full seasons: Struggled BAD with catching, inconsistent on his routes, struggle mightily with press coverage, wildly inconsistent and would disappear for long stretches of games (22 of his 31 career games has less than 40 yards receiving despite starting all of them), has not been a guy defenses had to game plan for (has zero 100 yard games), struggled getting separation consistently (even been noted by the coaches over that 2 year span). He may or may not become a good player for us, he may or may not be on this roster week 1...and honestly, he is certainly trending in all the right directions, and thats good news for all of us. I don't care if I was wrong in my doubts about his ability to step up, I really sincerely hope he proves to be a long term great player for us. But there is no doubt my criticisms were warranted at the time they were made and accurate. He has one of the worst catch rates of any starter over the last 2 years in the NFL and has failed to make any real impact in about 75% of his career games including 2/3's of his 2018 games. I simply took my criticisms and tried to the future on how McD and Beane would address the WR position in the offseason and what I thought that could mean for Zay and made a bold prediction. I knew the prediction was bold when I made it, but at the end of the day, I don't care if I am right, I would rather be wrong. I bleed this team, and I just want the best roster on the field, and if he proves to be part of that group then thats great for all of us and I am cheering for that to happen. And with Josh's late season surge, Zay only had 2 good games in 6 with Josh. There other 4 he was completely non existent, including the Pats game where I already explained he was shut down until the end of the game when Pats played softer D to chew the clock when game was out of reach. So sorry, the 2nd half thing should really just say, he had 2 good games against a bad Fins team and that was about it over the last 6 games. But its all good man, I knew there would be strong opposition to it when I wrote, and thats all great stuff. You and others have had lots of great dialogue back and forth and enjoyed the ride. Edited July 29, 2019 by Alphadawg7
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 To anyone complaining about Josh Allen's QB play.... You could still be stuck with TieRod Taylor 1
Alphadawg7 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: To anyone complaining about Josh Allen's QB play.... You could still be stuck with TieRod Taylor What a difference right...man times have never been so exciting. I loved the pick on draft night as I had him #2 behind Baker who had been my #1 all CFB season that year. I was so excited to see him really show so much improvement in short periods of time too. This season is gonna be lit! Question: Is TT on a roster right now? I honestly dont remember if he got signed. Edited July 29, 2019 by Alphadawg7 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: What a difference right...man times have never been so exciting. I loved the pick on draft night as I had him #2 behind Baker who had been my #1 all CFB season that year. I was so excited to see him really show so much improvement in short periods of time too. This season is gonna be lit! Question: Is TT on a roster right now? I honestly dont remember if he got signed. PS: And if my "bold prediction" is proven wrong, great...I will welcome the inevitable posts that come with the territory without rebuttal Its all good, I will have enjoyed this read greatly either way He’s on the Chargers. And I wasn’t a Tyrod fan but this after the fact bashing is kinda pathetic. I got told we couldn’t have a worse passing attack than we had with Tyrod. Well we did last year. Dude was far from an elite qb but he made good decisions and we won more games than we lost with him. And not many qbs in our franchise’s history can say that. And I wanted him replaced but this is just silly. P.S. Not really directed at you. I just saw this and had to say something haha. 3 1
Alphadawg7 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Posted July 29, 2019 9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Very true. You are set up to be to be somewhat less wrong than anyone who thought he'd be cut. PS: And if my "bold prediction" is proven wrong, great...I will welcome the inevitable posts that come with the territory without rebuttal Its all good, I will have enjoyed this read greatly either way
TheBrownBear Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Question: Is TT on a roster right now? I honestly dont remember if he got signed. He is the primary backup to Philip Rivers in Los Angeles. 1
DCbillsfan Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 Taylor is with the Chargers. I'm thinking Jones will make the 53. Better competition at WR but not enough to bounce Jones .... Yet. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He’s on the Chargers. And I wasn’t a Tyrod fan but this after the fact bashing is kinda pathetic. I got told we couldn’t have a worse passing attack than we had with Tyrod. Well we did last year. Dude was far from an elite qb but he made good decisions and we won more games than we lost with him. And not many qbs in our franchise’s history can say that. And I wanted him replaced but this is just silly. P.S. Not really directed at you. I just saw this and had to say something haha. Oh yeah, I knew you weren't directing to me. And in fairness, I felt TT was better than he got credit for here, but even I understood he had topped out his ability. I had no issue with McD wanted to see a season with TT for himself, especially given he came from a dual threat QB team, it just made sense to me. But ultimately, it was quite clear that he gave everything he had to the team and it was just not going to be enough. I was THRILLED when we got a 3rd for him, blown away actually especially from a team about to use the first overall pick on a QB. Thought we would get a 5th at best and more likely were just going to cut him for nothing. 7 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said: He is the primary backup to Philip Rivers in Los Angeles. 6 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said: Taylor is with the Chargers. I'm thinking Jones will make the 53. Better competition at WR but not enough to bounce Jones .... Yet. Ha I remember now, and I should have known that, I live in LA haha. Edited July 29, 2019 by Alphadawg7 2
ColoradoBills Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: What a difference right...man times have never been so exciting. I loved the pick on draft night as I had him #2 behind Baker who had been my #1 all CFB season that year. I was so excited to see him really show so much improvement in short periods of time too. This season is gonna be lit! Question: Is TT on a roster right now? I honestly dont remember if he got signed. Chargers. Alpha, concerning Zay Jones future you got to admit that a lot has changed since you started this thread. Taking out the opinions you or others may have concerning Zay's past performance, it is now Training Camp/Preseason time. The main result of your OP was that Zay Jones would be the guy Beane/McDermott would want to trade. While that still may happen I think the odds diminish on each passing day. The WRs working with Josh Allen are doing so to create consistency. Having our young QB work all summer with a supposed "Lame Duck" WR makes no sense at all to me. Personally I would be upset with Beane if he traded Jones to let's say NYG a week before cuts. I think JA would be too. This thread will probably go on until the final cuts but most would probably now agree the Zay Jones will be on the roster to start the season. He will also probably be in the top 3 though that's not carved in stone.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: ha kept trying to make that "PS:" part its own reply and it kept merging into my reply with you ha. Oh yeah, I knew you weren't directing to me, I have been on the Allen train since draft night. In fairness, I felt TT was better than he got credit for here, but even I understood he had topped out his ability. I had no issue with McD wanted to see a season with TT for himself, especially given he came from a dual threat QB team, it just made sense to me. But ultimately, it was quite clear that he gave everything he had to the team and it was just not going to be enough. I was THRILLED when we got a 3rd for him, blown away actually especially from a team about to use the first overall pick on a QB. Thought we would get a 5th at best and more likely were just going to cut him for nothing. I was "on the fence" about the Bills keeping Tyrod. If it was really McD wanted to see a season with TT for himself - it was a strange choice given his OC and the system/play calling they tried to run. IMO they should have either tailored the system (see what I did there?) to TT's strengths, or parted ways. I felt it was a stopgap because McDermott is smart enough to know he will "ride or die" as HC according to the quality of his QB, and he did not want to trust his QB draft to Whaley's scouting, knowing Whaley was the lamest of ducks. But if the plan was to use TT as a stopgap before drafting a QB, it would have made sense to move on that year, even if it meant we were starting scraps at QB - because we would have drafted higher. McDermott must have had his reasons - maybe he wanted to give the team a realistic chance to win if the D did their part, in order to start rebuilding the culture? I don't know. It was all very strange. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Ha I remember now, and I should have known that, I live in LA haha. LOL
atlbillsfan1975 Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 31 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He’s on the Chargers. And I wasn’t a Tyrod fan but this after the fact bashing is kinda pathetic. I got told we couldn’t have a worse passing attack than we had with Tyrod. Well we did last year. Dude was far from an elite qb but he made good decisions and we won more games than we lost with him. And not many qbs in our franchise’s history can say that. And I wanted him replaced but this is just silly. P.S. Not really directed at you. I just saw this and had to say something haha. Difference is Tyrod reached his ceiling. After a partial season, I don’t think we know yet what Allen’s ceiling is. Not bashing Tyrod, just facts. While Tyrod was here I cheered and hoped for more, he can’t do more.
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