Boca BIlls Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think it was a bad pass - it was on Zay. It was, it forced Zay to slow down which is prime opportunity for DBs to INT the ball. Edited May 29, 2019 by Boca BIlls
GunnerBill Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: It was, it forced Zay to slow down which is prime opportunity for DBs to INT the ball. He never looked back to try and track the ball. It was woeful from an NFL receiver running routes against air.
Boca BIlls Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: He never looked back to try and track the ball. It was woeful from an NFL receiver running routes against air. When you expect the ball to be where it should you never look back until you know the ball is going to be there. I remember the Vikings WRs saying they practice to never look for the ball until the very last moment to never give away it is coming to the DB.
GunnerBill Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 28 minutes ago, Boca BIlls said: When you expect the ball to be where it should you never look back until you know the ball is going to be there. I remember the Vikings WRs saying they practice to never look for the ball until the very last moment to never give away it is coming to the DB. And then your band double and catch it like a falling crab. That's in all the coaching manuals.
Chandler#81 Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: LOL the P layer fits the McDermott mold Ok. But how many ’Mcdermots’ are in the world?? 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Ok. But how many ’Mcdermots’ are in the world?? 3? Dermot Mulroney's son? Mac (Mc) = child of ... 1
formerlyofCtown Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 On 2/27/2019 at 3:46 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I could be wrong, but this is just what I believe based on the additions I expect Beane to make in the WR room. I have no issues if others don't agree, just my opinion on the matter, nothing more. I have consistently said this all off season, and McDermott just said something again that enforces that belief. I think they see how the Rams cleared out their WR room and so did the Bears and in both cases their young QB's took big strides as passers. Eagles did the same for Wentz too. "We're looking for guys that can get open and catch the ball." Yes, that is an obvious trait for any WR, but also its telling that he and Beane keep making these comments given the struggles all year, including Zay, to do these very basic things. I think the WR room will be crowded once free agency and the draft is over (likely 2 to 3 additions) and Zay is going to be someone who has to really impress in camp to make this roster. Right now, there is not one part of being a wide receiver that Zay does particularly well outside of his reported good work ethic. Hands: Struggles catching the ball. Makes easy catches look hard and drops too many passes. Separation: Has struggled to get separation, especially playing on the outside. Route Running: Part of his issue with getting separation is his inconsistent route running. Speed: He has average speed. He is fast enough to play in the league, but to be consistent with his speed he needs to be a good route runner. Physicality: He is easily man handled by physical corners. Games like the Lions and Pats this year he was dominated physically for example. Contested Catches: One of the weakest part of his game. Catch Radius: Very limited mostly due to his inconsistent hands and lack of physicality. Foster: Penciled in as a projected #2 WR. However, if we bring in a potential starter in FA and also draft one early, then Foster is no lock for #2 and could be used more out of the slot or as a deep threat. Additionally, if we draft say Metcalf or make a splashy trade for someone like Brown (less likely), then Duke could make a real challenge for #2 as a big catch radius compliment to a #1 who poses a real deep threat opposite him. Duke: He has to prove himself in the NFL, I get that. But if we take an honest assessment of him, his issues were never talent related. He isn't a speed burner, but he has a big catch radius, runs good routes, and has great hands. He could legit compete for the #2 opposite a big play #1. Even if not a #2, its more than reasonable he has a legit shot to make this team and compete for minutes. Zay: Best suited for the slot, however his lack of consistent hands and his issues with separation make his spot there vulnerable. If our top 2 WR's this next season dont include Foster, then I can easily see Foster challenging to play in the slot, and he already has surpassed Zay. We are adding at least 2 additonal WR's (and maybe 3) this offseason expected to start or compete to start to go along with the 3 guys already here. With McD and Beanes consistent comments about getting open and catching the ball, I think Zay is in trouble and will be a training camp or preseason trade for a 4th round or conditional 5th round pick. So how is your prediction lookin so far. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted May 29, 2019 Author Posted May 29, 2019 28 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: So how is your prediction lookin so far. So...I stated on Feb 27th about something I thought could happen in preseason...and you want to expedite to "I told you so's" because he made a handful of catches in shorts in May while the competition is still learning the playbook? I have been quite supportive of his OTA's so far if you go look at the other threads. I would love for Zay to excel, I could care less if a feeling I had in February after a subpar season comes true or not. I want the Bills to win, so go Zay. And I have been vocal about really liking his 2 OTA interviews and what he said. However, lets keep some perspective: They are in shorts still...Nathan Peterman always looked good in shorts too and apparently is again in Oakland. So maybe its a bit premature? His competition is still learning the playbook and some not even participating yet. There is no challenge on his routes...no contact of any kind allowed. We have had plenty of OTA heroes not even make the roster every year. In his interview yesterday, he literally stated he wasn't running his routes to Josh's liking, something he had an issue with last year. It was GREAT to hear that Allen called him out and told him what he wanted and even BETTER that Zay went out and executed it that way after. But it was evidence that he still has work to do. Even in passing drills someone pointed out his over the back catch which was literally him totally misplaying a ball with no defender and making a simple routine catch difficult. Something else he needed to improve on was not making catches so hard. Now...I am thrilled he is looking good overall, its a lot better than not looking good right now. But for the reason above, its premature to just declare the competition over. This thread was never about his ability to play WR in the NFL, it was where would he finish on the depth chart while facing stiffer competition. We haven't even put pads on yet. For all of our sake, lets hope Zay proves on the field he will be a vital part of this team. I don't care about "I told you so" nonsense...the criticism he got from me and others over the offseason were very much earned by Zay on the field in years 1 and 2. It never meant he CANT get better, it meant he better go out and GET better or he wont be safe. Nothing about his first 2 years made him a lock, he was going to have to earn his spot on the field this year and that was 100% accurate. And now he is getting that chance, and I for one hope he does succeed. 6
formerlyofCtown Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: So...I stated on Feb 27th about something I thought could happen in preseason...and you want to expedite to "I told you so's" because he made a handful of catches in shorts in May while the competition is still learning the playbook? I have been quite supportive of his OTA's so far if you go look at the other threads. I would love for Zay to excel, I could care less if a feeling I had in February after a subpar season comes true or not. I want the Bills to win, so go Zay. And I have been vocal about really liking his 2 OTA interviews and what he said. However, lets keep some perspective: They are in shorts still...Nathan Peterman always looked good in shorts too and apparently is again in Oakland. So maybe its a bit premature? His competition is still learning the playbook and some not even participating yet. There is no challenge on his routes...no contact of any kind allowed. We have had plenty of OTA heroes not even make the roster every year. In his interview yesterday, he literally stated he wasn't running his routes to Josh's liking, something he had an issue with last year. It was GREAT to hear that Allen called him out and told him what he wanted and even BETTER that Zay went out and executed it that way after. But it was evidence that he still has work to do. Even in passing drills someone pointed out his over the back catch which was literally him totally misplaying a ball with no defender and making a simple routine catch difficult. Something else he needed to improve on was not making catches so hard. Now...I am thrilled he is looking good overall, its a lot better than not looking good right now. But for the reason above, its premature to just declare the competition over. This thread was never about his ability to play WR in the NFL, it was where would he finish on the depth chart while facing stiffer competition. We haven't even put pads on yet. For all of our sake, lets hope Zay proves on the field he will be a vital part of this team. I don't care about "I told you so" nonsense...the criticism he got from me and others over the offseason were very much earned by Zay on the field in years 1 and 2. It never meant he CANT get better, it meant he better go out and GET better or he wont be safe. Nothing about his first 2 years made him a lock, he was going to have to earn his spot on the field this year and that was 100% accurate. And now he is getting that chance, and I for one hope he does succeed. He was gonna make the roster Before OTAs. Based on last years improvement. Very recognizable improvement. 1
thetaxicabdriver Posted May 29, 2019 Posted May 29, 2019 12 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: LOL the P layer fits the McDermott mold Haha, nailed it. Sorry for the typo. The Bourbon was a strong one last night! 2
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: He was gonna make the roster Before OTAs. Based on last years improvement. Very recognizable improvement. Are you calling it now? Making it? Oh no you are actually calling it then! Even better Edited May 30, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
Alphadawg7 Posted May 30, 2019 Author Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: He was gonna make the roster Before OTAs. Based on last years improvement. Very recognizable improvement. Eating healthier compared to eating fast food will make the smell of your poop smell better...still doesn’t mean it suddenly smells good. Season 1 was nearly Nathan Peterman type bad. Just because season 2 was “better” doesn’t automatically mean it was good. It was not. He didn’t even show up in 10 of his 16 games. And one of his “good stat line” games was a mirage...NE week 16 when he was dominated and held catchless until there was 4 min left in a blowout loss and NE started playing soft to chew time off the clock. So really, he didn’t show up in 11 of his 16 games. That’s not “good”, and Foster arguably came off the PS and outplayed him. Now he can certainly still get better and take a step forward, but let’s not pretend his 2nd year was some significant achievement. He dropped too many passes, failed the team in big moments multiple times, and just never established himself as a go to player despite starting all year. He also struggled badly against physical corners. Zay very well may be on this roster week 1, could even be a starter. But if he is, it’s because he earned it beating out the competition. It was never going to be just handed to him unless he proves it on the field. Personally, I hope he does and puts up a 1200 yard season. But the skepticism and criticism was well earned heading into the off season. Go Bills! Edited May 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7
MasterStrategist Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Eating healthier compared to eating fast food will make the smell of your poop smell better...still doesn’t mean it suddenly smells good. Season 1 was nearly Nathan Peterman type bad. Just because season 2 was “better” doesn’t automatically mean it was good. It was not. He didn’t even show up in 10 of his 16 games. And one of his “good stat line” games was a mirage...NE week 16 when he was dominated and held catchless until there was 4 min left in a blowout loss and NE started playing soft to chew time off the clock. So really, he didn’t show up in 11 of his 16 games. That’s not “good”, and Foster arguably came off the PS and outplayed him. Now he can certainly still get better and take a step forward, but let’s not pretend his 2nd year was some significant achievement. He dropped too many passes, failed the team in big moments multiple times, and just never established himself as a go to player despite starting all year. He also struggled badly against physical corners. Zay very well may be on this roster week 1, could even be a starter. But if he is, it’s because he earned it beating out the competition. It was never going to be just handed to him unless he proves it on the field. Personally, I hope he does and puts up a 1200 yard season. But the skepticism and criticism was well earned heading into the off season. Go Bills! It's a stretch to say he performed like "peterman" his rookie year. Peterman was downright awful, and held his starting role for less than a few games. Not at all like zay. And to say he "disappeared in 10 of 16 games", could be debated by saying: 1. he had very little support from other Wes, until foster stepped it up 2. Peterman did start a couple games, then we had a rookie QB learning on the job Zay isn't close, at least right now, to being a wr1. But his skill set and improvement last year, points to wr2 potential this season. wr3 at worst. And don't be upset at other posters calling you out on your original post. It's not like you said, "we are adding competition to the WR room, and I think zay has an uphill battle to make the team". Instead, you said "calling it now, Zay isn't on the week 1 roster". the latter, has much more conviction and comes across as a prediction as opposed to conversation. Everyone is rooting for the team to succeed, but you appear to be trying really hard to cover your bases by continuing to say it was only a February opinion. If I made this opinion in the first place, id either continue to support it or just say I was wrong (which it isn't week 1 yet, so we can wait and see). Either way, you made a prediction specifically about zay, not a post to start a convo about our wr group improving (at least your title didn't allude to that at all), so both sides have a right to call out after this is all settled. Go bills
Alphadawg7 Posted May 30, 2019 Author Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said: It's a stretch to say he performed like "peterman" his rookie year. Peterman was downright awful, and held his starting role for less than a few games. Not at all like zay. And to say he "disappeared in 10 of 16 games", could be debated by saying: 1. he had very little support from other Wes, until foster stepped it up 2. Peterman did start a couple games, then we had a rookie QB learning on the job Zay isn't close, at least right now, to being a wr1. But his skill set and improvement last year, points to wr2 potential this season. wr3 at worst. And don't be upset at other posters calling you out on your original post. It's not like you said, "we are adding competition to the WR room, and I think zay has an uphill battle to make the team". Instead, you said "calling it now, Zay isn't on the week 1 roster". the latter, has much more conviction and comes across as a prediction as opposed to conversation. Everyone is rooting for the team to succeed, but you appear to be trying really hard to cover your bases by continuing to say it was only a February opinion. If I made this opinion in the first place, id either continue to support it or just say I was wrong (which it isn't week 1 yet, so we can wait and see). Either way, you made a prediction specifically about zay, not a post to start a convo about our wr group improving (at least your title didn't allude to that at all), so both sides have a right to call out after this is all settled. Go bills Thats why you read THREADS not THREAD TITLES. And in February its what I felt would happen based I what I believed would happen in the offseason. That was before FA and the Draft. I definitely disagree with you on his rookie year, it was pretty disastrous on and off the field. It was literally at a "cuttable" level. And why do you think I am upset? I am not at all upset, I have really enjoyed this thread. I think its a bit silly the "I told you so" crowd wants to start coming out now when guys are running around in shorts, but other than that, I am not even remotely close to upset with anyones opinion. I am covering my bases? Hahaha oh come on, everything I am saying now I have been saying for months...guess you didnt read the thread. And let me tell you something about "defending my position"...thats a FOOLS game. Only fools make their mind up about future events and refuse to evolve as things progress. And as far as "admitting I was wrong" now...are you serious? I mean my very first post stated that I felt he could be a late preseason trade...we are 3 months from that. Im supposed to just assume the WR competition is over because Zay had a few good moments in shorts while his competition is still learning the playbook and some not even participating yet? Come on dude, that is pretty silly. I bet I said dozens of times in this thread that I would rather see Zay succeed. Many posters here care more about "I told you so" than actually having an open discussion. If I was afraid of being "wrong" I would have never started the thread. And many posters felt his spot was not a lock and he needed to step up, not just me. End of the day, I have maintained I hope he proves it on the field and becomes a vital part of this team. His first and second year shortcomings left me skeptical he could remain high enough on the depth chart if he faced stiff competition from new WR's. Never said it was impossible for him to get better or remain on this team. You seem to think I care more about the prediction than the Bills...I dont. Edited May 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7
formerlyofCtown Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Eating healthier compared to eating fast food will make the smell of your poop smell better...still doesn’t mean it suddenly smells good. Season 1 was nearly Nathan Peterman type bad. Just because season 2 was “better” doesn’t automatically mean it was good. It was not. He didn’t even show up in 10 of his 16 games. And one of his “good stat line” games was a mirage...NE week 16 when he was dominated and held catchless until there was 4 min left in a blowout loss and NE started playing soft to chew time off the clock. So really, he didn’t show up in 11 of his 16 games. That’s not “good”, and Foster arguably came off the PS and outplayed him. Now he can certainly still get better and take a step forward, but let’s not pretend his 2nd year was some significant achievement. He dropped too many passes, failed the team in big moments multiple times, and just never established himself as a go to player despite starting all year. He also struggled badly against physical corners. Zay very well may be on this roster week 1, could even be a starter. But if he is, it’s because he earned it beating out the competition. It was never going to be just handed to him unless he proves it on the field. Personally, I hope he does and puts up a 1200 yard season. But the skepticism and criticism was well earned heading into the off season. Go Bills! He would have to have a bad offseason to not make it. Kid was a beast in college. It takes a lot off recieves 2 to 3 years to hit their stride.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Eating healthier compared to eating fast food will make the smell of your poop smell better...still doesn’t mean it suddenly smells good. Season 1 was nearly Nathan Peterman type bad. Just because season 2 was “better” doesn’t automatically mean it was good. It was not. He didn’t even show up in 10 of his 16 games. And one of his “good stat line” games was a mirage...NE week 16 when he was dominated and held catchless until there was 4 min left in a blowout loss and NE started playing soft to chew time off the clock. So really, he didn’t show up in 11 of his 16 games. That’s not “good”, and Foster arguably came off the PS and outplayed him. Now he can certainly still get better and take a step forward, but let’s not pretend his 2nd year was some significant achievement. He dropped too many passes, failed the team in big moments multiple times, and just never established himself as a go to player despite starting all year. He also struggled badly against physical corners. Zay very well may be on this roster week 1, could even be a starter. But if he is, it’s because he earned it beating out the competition. It was never going to be just handed to him unless he proves it on the field. Personally, I hope he does and puts up a 1200 yard season. But the skepticism and criticism was well earned heading into the off season. Go Bills! You dug a deep hole to climb out of with the OP. And yes I /we've seen you "soften" your stance throughout. points 1-3 Season 1 was bad. No argument there. Season 2 was markedly better. Not "spectacular" but better. Season 3 ... with what little we see and hear is also shaping up. Meaning we are not hearing a lot of criticism and if it is deserving you know the Buffalo media would be all over it. Zay will be on the field week one with Buffalo for 80% (min) of the snaps. Of course if he's starting it means he's earned it. What Bill hasn't earned it in the McDermott regime (with the exception of Peterman). P.S. IMO - Fosters "fame" was because he caught 3 deep passes and racked up yards. [ some will claim it to be garbage time stats (not me) ]
GunnerBill Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 7 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: He would have to have a bad offseason to not make it. Kid was a beast in college. It takes a lot off recieves 2 to 3 years to hit their stride. Zay hit his the other day with the bent crab catch against air.
MasterStrategist Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Thats why you read THREADS not THREAD TITLES. And in February its what I felt would happen based I what I believed would happen in the offseason. That was before FA and the Draft. I definitely disagree with you on his rookie year, it was pretty disastrous on and off the field. It was literally at a "cuttable" level. And why do you think I am upset? I am not at all upset, I have really enjoyed this thread. I think its a bit silly the "I told you so" crowd wants to start coming out now when guys are running around in shorts, but other than that, I am not even remotely close to upset with anyones opinion. I am covering my bases? Hahaha oh come on, everything I am saying now I have been saying for months...guess you didnt read the thread. And let me tell you something about "defending my position"...thats a FOOLS game. Only fools make their mind up about future events and refuse to evolve as things progress. And as far as "admitting I was wrong" now...are you serious? I mean my very first post stated that I felt he could be a late preseason trade...we are 3 months from that. Im supposed to just assume the WR competition is over because Zay had a few good moments in shorts while his competition is still learning the playbook and some not even participating yet? Come on dude, that is pretty silly. I bet I said dozens of times in this thread that I would rather see Zay succeed. Many posters here care more about "I told you so" than actually having an open discussion. If I was afraid of being "wrong" I would have never started the thread. And many posters felt his spot was not a lock and he needed to step up, not just me. End of the day, I have maintained I hope he proves it on the field and becomes a vital part of this team. His first and second year shortcomings left me skeptical he could remain high enough on the depth chart if he faced stiff competition from new WR's. Never said it was impossible for him to get better or remain on this team. You seem to think I care more about the prediction than the Bills...I dont. I did read the thread and you have gone back and forth with your stance, significantly back pedaling at times. And as far as thread title, that is the first thing people read. Put me in the crowd, of Zay will make the team. Calling it now. Ridiculous to say he was cuttable his rookie year. He is known as one of the hardest working players at his position on the team, and has the skills to be a solid #2 wr in this league. Your choice of words is about being right and wrong when you say someone is going to get cut or traded. And you have been pretty defensive about ppl calling you out in several posts, so I interpret that as you being upset or bothered by the notion that someone would dare to call you out. Just saying
GunnerBill Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said: He is known as one of the hardest working players at his position on the team, and has the skills to be a solid #2 wr in this league. Great. He better start showing them. 1
Andrew Son Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Great. He better start showing them. What would you call 56 catches for 652 yards and 7 TD's in year two? In that disaster of an offense that we fielded?
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