Calling it now: Zay Jones will not be on the week 1 roster.

[nedboy7]

12 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

How could anyone defend Tyrod Taylor in year 3 and for almost a full season after he left?

 

dodo happens 

 

You could show a tiny bit of gratitude to the dude who led your team out of the playoff drought.  No matter what you think of him he played for your team and got something done. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Exactly!  Those guys weren’t great but absolutely on rosters at 24 years old. Both starters at that age in fact. 

 

This front office sure seems better at finding depth 

 

...special thanks to our "clueless owner" Pegula for handing his check book carte blanche to McBeane who then went out and hired MANY former exec level NFL personnel guys for his staff of 17+....including McBeane, bet that payroll is well north of $5 mil......hell I'd bet he has a scout on the ground right now in Cozumel scouring the place for talent...

[MrEpsYtown]

2 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You could show a tiny bit of gratitude to the dude who led your team out of the playoff drought.  No matter what you think of him he played for your team and got something done. 

 

So thank you Andy Dalton? 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

You could show a tiny bit of gratitude to the dude who led your team out of the playoff drought.  No matter what you think of him he played for your team and got something done. 

 

Count me in on that one too.  TT’s time here was 3 of the highest scoring years in Bills history and we broke the playoff drought.  He was not a franchise QB, and trading him and drafting Allen was the right move.  But, he was a model player who worked his tail off and a great teammate while here and helped get the “streak” off our back, so I will always appreciate him for that.  

 

For some reason, some posters like Shady cant let him go and keep bringing him up and slamming him even now.

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

So thank you Andy Dalton? 

 

That’s not really fair though.  You’re discrediting his contributions to 9 wins for that to be even possible.  And had he started SD game we may have had 10 wins and Bengals game wouldn’t have mattered. 

 

More importantly though, that pressure is off and our Young QB isn’t also carrying a nearly 2 decade long street on his shoulders right now had we not broke that streak.  

Edited May 4, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

So thank you Andy Dalton? 

 

 

..better take cover bud...I got ripped for saying we "snuck in the back door" with "Divine Dalton" because we "earned our way in (COUGH)"...........oh well....

[MrEpsYtown]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

..better take cover bud...I got ripped for saying we "snuck in the back door" with "Divine Dalton" because we "earned our way in (COUGH)"...........oh well....

 

It was just right there in the open. I had to do it 

Edited May 4, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[nedboy7]

45 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

..better take cover bud...I got ripped for saying we "snuck in the back door" with "Divine Dalton" because we "earned our way in (COUGH)"...........oh well....

 

I’d love for you to walk up to Kyle and tell him that to his face. That they didn’t really deserve to be there. Cause they didn’t do ***** for 16 weeks and then got lucky cause of one play?  Please. 

39 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

It was just right there in the open. I had to do it 

 

You clearly don’t understand what it take to play in the NFL. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If Zay isnt really separating himself, he is the only one with trade value.  So why would Beane keep him over the other young prospects showing promise if he will get nothing in return if he cuts them?

Zay's trade value IMO is minimal. Even if Zay hasn't clearly separated himself by the end of August I still think he sticks on the roster. He's worth more to the Bills gambling on him that he will produce during the season then trading him for a 5th round pick if that. I will be completely shocked if Zay is not on the roster week 1.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Zay's trade value IMO is minimal. Even if Zay hasn't clearly separated himself by the end of August I still think he sticks on the roster. He's worth more to the Bills gambling on him that he will produce during the season then trading him for a 5th round pick if that. I will be completely shocked if Zay is not on the roster week 1.

 

Agreed.  If for no other reason, I would like to think that the Bills have learnt something from last preseason, where "preseason warriors" who looked golden, turned to dross when the games were for-real.

 

I think going into preseason, the leading candidates for WR corps are Brown-Beasley-Zay-Foster (assuming he picks up where he left off), Andre Roberts for ST, and one other guy who has shown something both on the field and on ST.  McKensie might be the early favorite, but not so much that he can't be overtaken.  I think they will keep 1 guy on the practice squad (maybe 2 if someone shows ST aptitude as well as receiving chops).

 

But....the competition is tremendous, and Zay isn't as safe a bet as I thought he'd be if McKensie or Rayray look like they've taken a step, if Foster is paying attention and running good routes from the start, or if Williams shows something.

I would love to know who are the WR Kubiak alludes to, who've been working out with Allen off-season.  If he's built rappore and timing with a couple guys, that could be the "racer's edge".

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Zay's trade value IMO is minimal. Even if Zay hasn't clearly separated himself by the end of August I still think he sticks on the roster. He's worth more to the Bills gambling on him that he will produce during the season then trading him for a 5th round pick if that. I will be completely shocked if Zay is not on the roster week 1.

 

I understand your point, but I do think you’re undervaluing a 5th round pick, especially with Beane.  Let’s look at what Beane has done just the last 2 years with 5th round picks or lower.

 

Milano, Foster, Taron, and Levi in just last years draft.  

 

Cody Ford was landed at the cost of a 5th this year too.

 

So with our current regime, I think a 5th has more importance and value then people think.  Especially if Beane can get a higher pick or a conditional clause where it could become a higher pick.  Remember, this is also the same guy who got a 5th for a QB who got outplayed by Peterman and the first pick in the 3rd round for a QB everyone knew we were likely going to dump.  So not out of the question that Beane could get more than we anticipate for Zay too.

[rayray808]

Zay > Rayray...

 

 

McCloud

Edited May 4, 2019 by rayray808

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

44 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

I’d love for you to walk up to Kyle and tell him that to his face. That they didn’t really deserve to be there. Cause they didn’t do ***** for 16 weeks and then got lucky cause of one play?  Please. 

 

You clearly don’t understand what it take to play in the NFL. 

...so they got in solely on their own merit, which I am NOT discounting their supreme effort?....no "Dalton Intervention"?....um ok if you say so.....

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Keep in mind, I have always said Zay would be a trade and not likely a cut if he wasn’t on this team.  I acknowledge he will be on a roster, I have just been skeptical he can separate himself here enough for it to be here.

 

And yeah, the depth here now all over this roster is so exciting!  

 

Though the OP does elude to trade because he’ll struggle to make. 

 

I just dont don’t see the “he’s terrible” crowd. 

 

As a rookie his hand stank. But he was frequently open and winning his routes. Last year his catching improved and he was still winning routes.

 

He made some difficult catches and seems to have come a long way adjusting to the throws. 

 

He he caught a number of ‘back shoulder slants’ if you watch that clip. I think he still has a shot at being 1000 yd wr. 

 

Roddey white is another guy who had a slow start and particularly a drop problem. 

 

He still ill looks like one of the best overall athletes in the WR room. 

[Alphadawg7]

16 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Though the OP does elude to trade because he’ll struggle to make. 

 

I just dont don’t see the “he’s terrible” crowd. 

 

As a rookie his hand stank. But he was frequently open and winning his routes. Last year his catching improved and he was still winning routes.

 

He made some difficult catches and seems to have come a long way adjusting to the throws. 

 

He he caught a number of ‘back shoulder slants’ if you watch that clip. I think he still has a shot at being 1000 yd wr. 

 

Roddey white is another guy who had a slow start and particularly a drop problem. 

 

He still ill looks like one of the best overall athletes in the WR room. 

 

All fair and reasonable points.  I think the lack of consistency is the issue and the frequency that he doesn’t make the play when it matters most is why many of us are skeptical.  

 

I tend to be more pessimistic and harder on people who show signs of lacking the mental toughness.  It’s why I was so hard on Trent still when we were 4-0 and not impressed in him barely beating bottom feeder teams that year and really not playing all that well.  Got flamed when I said those things until there was finally enough for the majority to come around.  

 

But hey, I would much rather you guys be right than me, I won’t root for him to fail and will cross my fingers he makes a believer out of the rest of us.  Until, I stand strongly by my skepticism on him shining in a much improved WR room.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 2/27/2019 at 5:40 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont forget Duke...he has a real shot to both make this team and play a relevant role.  Talent was never his issue.

 

 

...major kudos to McBeane and his gang for scouring the planet looking for talent to make Bflo better.....literally NO stone unturned......these dudes are workin' 24/7/365 wherever...Duke banished HIMSELF to the CFL for bad indiscretions....he can stay there and make a decent living or or opt for the MUCH higher paying "big show"....CFL has yielded some eventual NFL talent starting with Moon...McBeane was quoted as saying that the "Duke signing precluded any high priority/high WR draft picks."....cannot be a BIGGER wake up call for Zay than this in 2019......

[BuffaLoko]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...special thanks to our "clueless owner" Pegula for handing his check book carte blanche to McBeane who then went out and hired MANY former exec level NFL personnel guys for his staff of 17+....including McBeane, bet that payroll is well north of $5 mil......hell I'd bet he has a scout on the ground right now in Cozumel scouring the place for talent...

Call me a d4mn h0m3r, but your reference to Cozumel in this one, made me laugh!! 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, BuffaLoko said:

Call me a d4mn h0m3r, but your reference to Cozumel in this one, made me laugh!! 

..my apology if I was stupidly offensive......sometimes, this place gets so wound up in ultimate seriousness that sand in "thy jockey shorts" or "too tight nylons causing blue bawls" present major health concerns...sure it is not appreciated by most, but I try ti interject some stupid humor to get some to "lighten up" as it is ONLY a damn MB versus the end of the world...TBD poster heart attacks and strokes are NOT welcome....

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

44 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

All fair and reasonable points.  I think the lack of consistency is the issue and the frequency that he doesn’t make the play when it matters most is why many of us are skeptical.  

 

I tend to be more pessimistic and harder on people who show signs of lacking the mental toughness.  It’s why I was so hard on Trent still when we were 4-0 and not impressed in him barely beating bottom feeder teams that year and really not playing all that well.  Got flamed when I said those things until there was finally enough for the majority to come around.  

 

But hey, I would much rather you guys be right than me, I won’t root for him to fail and will cross my fingers he makes a believer out of the rest of us.  Until, I stand strongly by my skepticism on him shining in a much improved WR room.

 

Guess you nailed Trent. I was really impressed with his training camp clips. Back then the bills shared a lot of camp video. But you could see him melt in live action when he didn’t have the red jersey on. 

 

People blame the concussion, but I’m a skeptic it made any difference. 

 

I share skepticism on the whole passing  offense.

 

if you look back at those Zay highlights, it also pops off the screen how bad Allen’s ball placement was. 

 

I think the guys that adjust best to the passes passes are going to make over those who excel at other things. 

 

It’s an interesting topic because the WR room could really go any which way AND Josh’s development will heavily influence the depth chart top to bottom imo 

[nedboy7]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...so they got in solely on their own merit, which I am NOT discounting their supreme effort?....no "Dalton Intervention"?....um ok if you say so.....

 

You know exactly what I mean. Nice try. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Agreed.  If for no other reason, I would like to think that the Bills have learnt something from last preseason, where "preseason warriors" who looked golden, turned to dross when the games were for-real.

 

I think going into preseason, the leading candidates for WR corps are Brown-Beasley-Zay-Foster (assuming he picks up where he left off), Andre Roberts for ST, and one other guy who has shown something both on the field and on ST.  McKensie might be the early favorite, but not so much that he can't be overtaken.  I think they will keep 1 guy on the practice squad (maybe 2 if someone shows ST aptitude as well as receiving chops).

 

But....the competition is tremendous, and Zay isn't as safe a bet as I thought he'd be if McKensie or Rayray look like they've taken a step, if Foster is paying attention and running good routes from the start, or if Williams shows something.

I would love to know who are the WR Kubiak alludes to, who've been working out with Allen off-season.  If he's built rappore and timing with a couple guys, that could be the "racer's edge".

I hear you, and I'm one who always says you're better off giving up on talent too late than too early.  Talent's too hard to come by to give up quick on someone. 

 

However, I think Zay has some things working against him.  You say you can't let your judgment be clouded by preseason warriors, but consider this:  McBeane saw something in Foster last summer.  He didn't do much, as I recall, all summer, and no one was clamoring for him to be on the 53.  So McBeane stashed him on the practice squad until he matured (and until guys ahead of him struggled), and then they activated him.  If McBeane see a similar future or more for Sills and Williams, they probably can't hide them on the practice squad.   Foster wasn't in high demand after the draft (again, if I recall correctly) and given how bad the Bills receivers were, other teams probably weren't all that willing to take a chance on him and put on their rosters.  After all, if he wasn't in the top six in Buffalo, why would he be in the top six any place else?   Williams and Sills are different.

 

Moreover, McD has seen two full years of Zay, and he now has a very good understanding of Zay's upside.  As I and others said earlier, Zay doesn't do any one thing special.  He just doesn't stand out.  Sills and Williams both do.  They will be raw, but their potential should be clear, especially Williams, because he has some miles on him now, albeit only in Canada.  

 

And remember, McBeane aren't building for this season.  They're building for the long term.   So, if Zay turns out to be the number four guy - Foster and Brown wide and Beasley in the slot, Zay's not playing a big role in the offense.  The Bills know his upside, and if after two years he can't hold onto a position as one of the starting three wideouts, and if Sills and Williams show potential and one of them (probably Williams) can do what Zay already does, Zay could be history.   Especially when you know how much Beane likes having those late round picks.  

 

I think Zay is in a serious fight for a roster spot.