Aussie Joe Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 Mark Gaughan disagrees with OP.. https://buffalonews.com/2019/03/30/buffalo-bills-nfl-draft-trade-down-quarterback-rob-gronkowski-ron-jaworski-mailbag-mark-gaughan/ I Quote I don’t think there’s much trade value for McCoy. Another slew of competent, cheap, rookie running backs are about to enter the league. The Bills aren’t unloading Jones for a late-round pick. They’ve invested two years in him. See if he can take another step forward in 2019.
Chandler#81 Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 I disagreed with this take in February, here on Page 1 and I still disagree with it in April, still on Page 1.? Maybe it’s me. Maybe I’m too quick to kill dumb threads that stalemate the flow of content? Nah, Sucky threads suck. We get it! Aphadawg7 will be here at the Season start to field any due credit or critiques regarding this claim. Can we please let this thread nap for a couple months? We’ve accrued 10-12 new players in FA since this was started and we’re in Draft month. Shirley we can come up with other topics to discuss. How ‘bout a couple more Kay Adams threads????
Ronin Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 11:56 AM, Stank_Nasty said: I know don't how to break this to you but you are completely 100% wrong here. please go look at box scores and the qb's he played with. wherever you are getting your info is false. and the irony of the ignorance comment to boot... LOL. thank you... @TaskersGhost is forming arguments off false numbers. if he's doing it with foster, I would assume he's doing it elsewhere.... its all just a bunch of made up hot air. what a blowhard. I did, I've even posted the numbers. You, you've posted nothing in contrast. I cannot do anything if you want to stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and refuse to look at them. Want to prove your point, lay out Foster's numbers game-by-game, you can do it. Seriously, your fingers broken or something, clearly not, shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes for you to prove me wrong. Funny, I always ask posters to backup their claims and strangely few do as such. Seriously, post Foster's game by game, state whom the QBs were for each, take an average, and show me how little I know about math, statistics, how dishonest I am, etc. Chop chop! Don't challenge me ot lay out what I've already laid out, do your own homework. Too lazy? What?
Ronin Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 11:12 AM, SouthNYfan said: Please explain where I was being ignorant and not knowing stats? Thanks Where did I compare newton to Brady? As usual you ignore the point of the post to run your own tangential narrative. You stated that a franchise QB MUST PERENNIALLY HAVE 30TDS A SEASON, which is "marginally above average" I provided factual evidence that even the best QBs of all time and of the current generation are only doing it about 35-45% of the time with Ben doing it in only 3 of his 15 seasons. You also blatantly ignored the point that newton provides a significant bonus the others do not, short yardage running options and a significant # of rushing TDs. A rushing TD is still 6 points last I checked, so you have to count those for him towards his overall total. He has 182 passing and 58 rushing TDs in 8 seasons. Know that that averages out to?? Exactly 30 TDs a season. Math isn't your strong suit. There are plenty of reasons to argue why cam isn't on the same level as Brady, Rivers, Rodgers (because he isn't), but he's still a franchise QB, and if you're saying any guy who isn't Brees, Rodgers, Brady level isn't considered a franchise QB then that's fine, but maybe you should use something other than arbitrary TD totals that you came up with to separate them from the pack, since Cam actually bests Brady (27.77 combined TDs), ben (26.2 combined), Rivers (28.92 combined), and falls slightly behind Peyton (32 combined), Brees (31.8 combined) and Rodgers (32.8 combined) Pretty amazing right? Actually math is my strong suit. Otherwise, you need to sort your posts better, some of those responses weren't to you. As to Newton, I stated that Newton was not a franchise QB based on someone comparing Allen to Newton, and as if there's even a close comparison at this point, and as if it's even relevant, but you defended the notion that Newton was a franchise QB. Logic doesn't appear to be your strong suit. By implication you were arguing against me. Look, I get that we disagree. I'm not emotional over this like so many others, either way we've skinned this cat. No need to engage further 'til the season starts. Allen's going to be Allen, doesn't matter what you, I, or anyone else thinks. If he makes monumental leaps and bounds of progress I'll be as happy as the next guy. Where we see Allen being right now as this very moment is irrelevant. The only difference is that those with higher expectations like most opining on this, and I mean opining since few offer any real data, particularly Allen's monumental struggles in the Red Zone and short-medium game otherwise, the emotional fall is greater for them if things don't work out. That's why I'm relatively steady while others go from insisting that a player or coach is the next great one to wanting to fire everyone and burn down OBD when things don't work out. I'll ask you where you think the emotional maturity lies.
Ronin Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 11:12 AM, SouthNYfan said: Math isn't your strong suit. BTW, apparently listening/reading-comprehension isn't yours. This is really starting to get old. And defending someone that repeatedly states that Foster's 60 ypg is greater than 82 ypg. Honestly. Let's imply cut to the chase and say that Allen's not human and is impervious to injury and should hit 75 passing TDs this season. I mean if we're going o ignore reality on the front end, let's at least have some fun with it. I've said repeatedly, to you even specifically, that rushing is not a characteristic of franchise QBs. There may be one, perhaps two that do run, but they're not considered franchise QBs because of their rushing ability. AGAIN! Now, which of that last sentence, which I've repeated, to you specifically, or which combination of words, seriously, did you not understand? If you disagree, prove, via facts, that it's incorrect. Good luck. Otherwise, there's a thing called RBs that run the ball so that your QB doesn't have to risk his own self to injury. Good ones do it quite well thereby mitigating if not eliminating the need for a QB to run. Otherwise, one last question, suppose Allen's passing game even doubles the way it is, 20 TDs, 24 INTs, but he rushes for the average 7 TDs/season that Newton has, ... yes or no question, ... would you consider him to be a franchise QB? No lengthy response necessary, I'm spotting you twice Allen's passing from last season and acquiescing to Newton's rushing TD average. Yes or No?
Juice_32 Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: BTW, apparently listening/reading-comprehension isn't yours. This is really starting to get old. And defending someone that repeatedly states that Foster's 60 ypg is greater than 82 ypg. Honestly. Let's imply cut to the chase and say that Allen's not human and is impervious to injury and should hit 75 passing TDs this season. I mean if we're going o ignore reality on the front end, let's at least have some fun with it. I've said repeatedly, to you even specifically, that rushing is not a characteristic of franchise QBs. There may be one, perhaps two that do run, but they're not considered franchise QBs because of their rushing ability. AGAIN! Now, which of that last sentence, which I've repeated, to you specifically, or which combination of words, seriously, did you not understand? If you disagree, prove, via facts, that it's incorrect. Good luck. Otherwise, there's a thing called RBs that run the ball so that your QB doesn't have to risk his own self to injury. Good ones do it quite well thereby mitigating if not eliminating the need for a QB to run. Otherwise, one last question, suppose Allen's passing game even doubles the way it is, 20 TDs, 24 INTs, but he rushes for the average 7 TDs/season that Newton has, ... yes or no question, ... would you consider him to be a franchise QB? No lengthy response necessary, I'm spotting you twice Allen's passing from last season and acquiescing to Newton's rushing TD average. Yes or No? You made up your mind about Allen well before the draft last year. We get it, you think he sucks. He could win 3 Super Bowls and he’d still suck because of your preconceived notions and metrics. It’s a dead horse. If your going to continue to beat it, do so in an Allen thread. 1
SouthNYfan Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said: BTW, apparently listening/reading-comprehension isn't yours. This is really starting to get old. And defending someone that repeatedly states that Foster's 60 ypg is greater than 82 ypg. Honestly. Let's imply cut to the chase and say that Allen's not human and is impervious to injury and should hit 75 passing TDs this season. I mean if we're going o ignore reality on the front end, let's at least have some fun with it. I've said repeatedly, to you even specifically, that rushing is not a characteristic of franchise QBs. There may be one, perhaps two that do run, but they're not considered franchise QBs because of their rushing ability. AGAIN! Now, which of that last sentence, which I've repeated, to you specifically, or which combination of words, seriously, did you not understand? If you disagree, prove, via facts, that it's incorrect. Good luck. Otherwise, there's a thing called RBs that run the ball so that your QB doesn't have to risk his own self to injury. Good ones do it quite well thereby mitigating if not eliminating the need for a QB to run. Otherwise, one last question, suppose Allen's passing game even doubles the way it is, 20 TDs, 24 INTs, but he rushes for the average 7 TDs/season that Newton has, ... yes or no question, ... would you consider him to be a franchise QB? No lengthy response necessary, I'm spotting you twice Allen's passing from last season and acquiescing to Newton's rushing TD average. Yes or No? As usual you've gone off on a tangent ignoring where you were proven wrong. The question you posed was not "if Allen doubles his stats" it was "if Allen has an identical career to Newton after 8 seasons would you be happy with him" (paraphrase) Yes. I would. You then chose to ignore the fact that you made up an arbitrary "perennial 30td' threshold, and called that "marginally average" but then were schooled on the fact that even the current elite QBs don't even hit that number more than 40% or so of the time, then ignored the fact that Newton averages 30 total tds a season. Go home man. You keep digging yourself deeper.
Ronin Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) On 3/31/2019 at 6:40 PM, Buffalo Junction said: One reason we rarely see guys coming into the league and improving with a poor short game is that they usually don’t see the light of day for at least a year. Rivers sat. Aaron Brooks sat. Jeff Blake sat. Favre sat. Go watch the Falcons 1991 game against the Redskins. Favre literally pulled a Peterman; 4 pass attempts, 2 incompletions (one high another in the dirt), and 2 interceptions. The first two games he played for the Packers weren’t much better. His first pass as a packer was intercepted. The second game he was booed off the field after fumbling 4 times.... He was horribly inconsistent. Crappy footwork and body position lead to tons of inaccurate passes. He benefited greatly from having Sterling Sharpe. Fun fact... Favre’s completion percentage dropped by 5% to the high 50’s after Sharpe retired. A few of these guys can improve. It’s not usually for guys to improve like Favre. The reason to have faith is that Allen seems to have a similar will to succeed as Favre along with enough intelligence to learn from his mistakes. Time will tell whether we have a Favre or a Kyle Boller. A lot of things can happen, but that doesn't mean that they will. Citing QBs for one reason or another in a statistically isolated basis is bad form. Anyone could do the same thing for more accomplished collegiate QBs that outplayed Allen in their rookie seasons but that never went on to stardom othewise. If you want to cite Favre, lay out some numbers. Fun fact... Favre’s completion percentage dropped by 5% to the high 50’s after Sharpe retired. Really? You want to stand on that and link your credibility to it? OK, ... here are the "fun fact" numbers: Sharpe retired after the '94 season, right? Favre's Completion % for those three seasons was 62.4%. Fun fact! The very next season Favre had a 63.0% completion %, which alone essentially proves your fun fact completely wrong. It was 61.9%, a whole half-% "worse" over the balance of his other 16 seasons after Sharpe retired, which includes Favre's horrific last season at the age of 41. Even over the next 5 seasons after Sharpe left his completion % was 60.5% proving your Fun Fact wrong. Either way, if it's your intention to equate Allen to Favre, I'm not even sure what to say. Favre's worst completion % was 56%, in his second-to-worst season at the age of 37, still over 4% better than Allen's after Allen came back from injury. So I'm not even sure what your point is here, besides the fact that the premise for whatever it is that you laid out is completely and utterly false. It's having to respond to things like this that are a complete waste of time, and there are plenty of them. I mean really, what should I do with this? It's nonsense. Either way, looks like your fun fact isn't so much fun. 39 minutes ago, Juice_32 said: You made up your mind about Allen well before the draft last year. We get it, you think he sucks. He could win 3 Super Bowls and he’d still suck because of your preconceived notions and metrics. It’s a dead horse. If your going to continue to beat it, do so in an Allen thread. Who cares? Does that bother you that I have a strong opinion on Allen? Sounds like more of a personal problem than a polemical one. Go get help, really. I mean seriously, you get upset because I lay out good arguments for how good Allen is or conversely isn't? Whatever ... I respond to comments made, many of which consist of statistical lies like Buffalo Junction and his fun fact above. Talk about beating a dead horse, that dead horse is how great Allen is before he's ever even achieved that status if you ask me. And this emotional immaturity of assuming that this is some sort of personal preference of mine, like frankly it is with you and others on the flip side, is childish. Otherwise, any thread about receiving, the draft, and numerous other things have to do with Allen. What, you can't connect those dots, ... strike that, yes, I realize that you can't. Edited April 2, 2019 by TaskersGhost 1
Ronin Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: As usual you've gone off on a tangent ignoring where you were proven wrong. The question you posed was not "if Allen doubles his stats" it was "if Allen has an identical career to Newton after 8 seasons would you be happy with him" (paraphrase) Yes. I would. Great, let's end there then. I won't be happy given what we gave up. For what we gave up, I'm expecting more than a QB that's going to throw for a below-average number of TDs every season, one that's purely mediocre in the post-season, one that's taken his team to the playoffs only four times getting ousted in the first round, like us last season, twice, losing in the D-round once, and only making it to the SB once with a horrific performance to boot in the SB costing his team a championship, kinda like Bledsoe, and only in a season with a relatively easy schedule featuring no teams with more than 10 wins on the season, one that's led his team to an average 14th scoring offense otherwise, and not exactly in premier defensive division I might add, and one that's 56-55-1 (perfectly .500) in 7 seasons otherwise. Fair enough. My standards are significantly higher, which I can except and which explains the differences in at least some our positions. Edited April 2, 2019 by TaskersGhost
Ronin Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: BTW South, you got me thinkin'. Here is Newton's playoff game average over his 7 playoff games; He's 3-4 to start. One of those games they won because of Kuechly's pick 6. In his 3 wins he had 5 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs with 4 of those 7 TDs and both rushing TDs coming in one game against Arizona. Otherwise he had a mere 3 passing TDs in the other two wins, 359 combined yards (180 passing yards/game), and an insignificant number of rushing yards in those other two wins. He's averaged 19 of 32 for 260 yards, 1.4 TDs, 1 INT, and 87.7 rating, 9 carries for 37 yards rushing, and only 2 total rushing TDs, again, in one game, a rout, of Arizona. In the other 6 playoff games his offense averaged a below-average 19 PPG. Odd that you'd be happy if Allen turns out like that as a finished product. As I said, my expectations are significantly higher. Either way, that you seem to think that's franchise QB caliber, well, again, I guess we can simply agree to disagree.
Juice_32 Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 7 hours ago, TaskersGhost said: BTW South, you got me thinkin'. Here is Newton's playoff game average over his 7 playoff games; He's 3-4 to start. One of those games they won because of Kuechly's pick 6. In his 3 wins he had 5 passing TDs and 2 rushing TDs with 4 of those 7 TDs and both rushing TDs coming in one game against Arizona. Otherwise he had a mere 3 passing TDs in the other two wins, 359 combined yards (180 passing yards/game), and an insignificant number of rushing yards in those other two wins. He's averaged 19 of 32 for 260 yards, 1.4 TDs, 1 INT, and 87.7 rating, 9 carries for 37 yards rushing, and only 2 total rushing TDs, again, in one game, a rout, of Arizona. In the other 6 playoff games his offense averaged a below-average 19 PPG. Odd that you'd be happy if Allen turns out like that as a finished product. As I said, my expectations are significantly higher. Either way, that you seem to think that's franchise QB caliber, well, again, I guess we can simply agree to disagree. Tell me how you feel about Quinton Spain.
dave mcbride Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 7:36 PM, SouthNYfan said: Ironic. Somebody quoting taskers ghost who's also posting made up stats. Sterling Sharpe retired after the 1994 season. Sterling Sharpe was also a wr, who was mostly an immediate to deep threat. His brother was the TE, who never played for GB. Favre comp% 1994: 62.4% Favre comp% 1995: 63.0% Hard to take you seriously when you are so egregiously mistaken. Favre was also the league mvp in 1995, 1996, and 1998! 1
ALF Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 Calling it now, Zay Jones will be on the week 1 roster ? He played injured his 1st year and is making progress now on and off field. 1
Stank_Nasty Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 9 hours ago, TaskersGhost said: I did, I've even posted the numbers. You, you've posted nothing in contrast. I cannot do anything if you want to stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and refuse to look at them. Want to prove your point, lay out Foster's numbers game-by-game, you can do it. Seriously, your fingers broken or something, clearly not, shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes for you to prove me wrong. Funny, I always ask posters to backup their claims and strangely few do as such. Seriously, post Foster's game by game, state whom the QBs were for each, take an average, and show me how little I know about math, statistics, how dishonest I am, etc. Chop chop! Don't challenge me ot lay out what I've already laid out, do your own homework. Too lazy? What? I already did the homework. It takes 2 seconds to look up his game logs and figure it out. You state he played with 2 other qb’s in 4 different games and averaged over 80 ypg in those games. That’s 100% fabricated. He played with peterman and Barkley for a total of 2 games and had 105 total yds. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FostRo01/gamelog/2018/ you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and there’s about a full page of people stating that one or 2 pages back.... it was when you conveniently disappeared right after we said you were making numbers up. 2
SouthNYfan Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said: I already did the homework. It takes 2 seconds to look up his game logs and figure it out. You state he played with 2 other qb’s in 4 different games and averaged over 80 ypg in those games. That’s 100% fabricated. He played with peterman and Barkley for a total of 2 games and had 105 total yds. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FostRo01/gamelog/2018/ you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and there’s about a full page of people stating that one or 2 pages back.... it was when you conveniently disappeared right after we said you were making numbers up. Yep. I'm just going to stop responding. Read his two last responses to me. He's basically changed his idea about what he considers a franchise QB at every turn he's been smoked. I'm just going to stop trying because it takes too much energy to respond to his novels about nothing.
Stank_Nasty Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) On 3/31/2019 at 1:17 PM, HappyDays said: I just have to say one last time that TaskersGhost in all seriousness said "Andre Holmes mimicked Goodwin" when attempting to prove that Josh Allen had a similar set of receivers as EJ Manuel. In fact I'll just post the whole thing because it's amazing to read: See, EJ Manuel had Stevie Johnson. But Stevie didn't produce with any other team, and Kelvin Benjamin had more career yards, so that means Kelvin Benjamin is on par with him. But oh would you look at that, that's another lie. He says Kelvin Benjamin has more career yards than any receiver we had in 2013. Just a little slightly off there. Stevie Johnson has 1,743 more career receiving yards than Kelvin Benjamin, and Robert Woods has a mere 1,430 more. No way TaskersGhost is randomly making up information to win an internet argument. It was probably an honest mistake. I’m also gonna quote more false numbers posted by @TaskersGhost so this can really sink in for him. I honestly think maybe if he really sees what he’s doing it might sink in. I wanna help the dude. Somethings not firing right. It’s intervention time Edited April 2, 2019 by Stank_Nasty 1
Stank_Nasty Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Yep. I'm just going to stop responding. Read his two last responses to me. He's basically changed his idea about what he considers a franchise QB at every turn he's been smoked. I'm just going to stop trying because it takes too much energy to respond to his novels about nothing. That’s exactly what they are. Long ass posts with no real content. Made up jibberish. Cant take somebody seriously that actually is dumb enough to flat out make up numbers and isn’t smart enough that it takes 5 seconds for everyone to look it up and find out its a complete fabrication.... probably worked a lot better for him in the dial up days. 1
SouthNYfan Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: That’s exactly what they are. Long ass posts with no real content. Made up jibberish. Cant take somebody seriously that actually is dumb enough to flat out make up numbers and isn’t smart enough that it takes 5 seconds for everyone to look it up and find out its a complete fabrication.... probably worked a lot better for him in the dial up days. Blathering idiot at the bar making things up and people just think he's right because he says it with conviction and a lot of words. He's basically a politician, just making up things and hiding it behind a lot of words Shockingly it works in politics because people still don't know how to do an internet search. It doesn't work here because sports fans are bloodhounds ?
Doc Posted April 2, 2019 Posted April 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, ALF said: Calling it now, Zay Jones will be on the week 1 roster ? He played injured his 1st year and is making progress now on and off field. Yup. And again the incident last off-season really put him behind the 8-ball going into camp and the season. I think he makes the roster. 27 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I already did the homework. It takes 2 seconds to look up his game logs and figure it out. You state he played with 2 other qb’s in 4 different games and averaged over 80 ypg in those games. That’s 100% fabricated. He played with peterman and Barkley for a total of 2 games and had 105 total yds. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FostRo01/gamelog/2018/ you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and there’s about a full page of people stating that one or 2 pages back.... it was when you conveniently disappeared right after we said you were making numbers up. Well, he played 1-1/2 games with Peterman and Barkley. So his average was 70 yards/game in those games. And again he didn't play with Anderson. But it was disingenuous of him (surprise) to talk about Foster's per game average with Allen, knowing his early-season play was poor and led to his temporary demotion.
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