Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: I think you are being a little unfair when speaking about senior executives, at least on the Bills behalf. It clearly is not “turnover for turnovers sake” like you have opined. The firing of the Bills executives were moves that needed to be made, and very few in the NFL disagreed. Did you honestly expect the Pegulas to keep Russ Brandon employed in 2019, given the nature of some of the allegations which came out? Also this is without any damming information in Brandon which was apparently unearthed during their investigation. I am sure they wanted to keep Brandon from a business standpoint, he was good at his job, but this was a move that needed to be made. Doug Whaley - I didn’t feel that Whaley was a very good GM. His record and the salary cap speaks for itself. Yes there were factors blah blah blah.... but do you really see this as an egregious firing? It’s telling how no NFL team touched Whaley in the 2 years since he left Buffalo and he was exiled to ventures outside of the league. Rex Ryan - Do you really fault PSE for firing Rex Ryan? By all accounts he was a failure and embarrassed the organization. We’ve seen owners keep bad coaches under the false premise of “continuity.” It wasn’t working with Rex and I give the Pegulas credit for starting over. The Sabres and PSE stuff, I’m not as well-versed I’m so I won’t comment with very much insight. Maybe you’re right there. I won’t fault the Pegula’s the same way you have, and I feel you are being unfair and grasping for straws by lumping in the Bills firings. Where I do agree with you, is that Terry and Kim have made some mistakes as owners. They hung on to Lindy Ruff for too long, should have fired Doug Whaley and brought in a GM in January of 2017, and were easily swindled (along with Russ and Whaley) by Rex Ryan. But again, to their credit, when they recognized that they made a mistake, they ate the money, took the lumps, and started over. The team was also horrible in 17-18. I am sure that fans didn’t have a ton on interest in renewing season tickets I said that RB absolutely needed to be fired. I believe that some of those others needed to go as well. That doesn’t change the fact that they are turning over senior level people at an unparalleled level. They are the ones that hired these people in many cases!! The last guy was there a month. I didn’t even name them all. The average pro sports franchise probably has 12 or so people at the “senior level” between on and off the field (maybe a little more). They have cycled through people at a rate that no other team has. The Pelicans/Saints are a similar structure. They have turned over 3 people at that level since 2012 (if my memory is correct). They fired the VP of sponsorship in like 2015, Monty Williams (HC Pelicans) around then and Dell Demps (GM Pelicans) this year. Every other department head remains and outside of Monty Williams the people were replaced internally. The Pegulas have been through 20 or so people at that level in a similar time frame. What is happening at PSE is not normal.
JMF2006 Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 49 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Eh, more high level executives should get fired these days. Companies have no problem firing a custodian if he isn't doing a good job, COOs and such should be no different. It usually costs a hell of lot more to fire a CEO/COO/CAO than firing the janitor. They all have golden parachute clauses in their contracts which adds up to mega departure payments. 1
Bing Bong Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: My impression is that the Pegulas fire a lot of people because sports don't work like private industry and they are getting frustrated that investing resources doesn't lead to success in sports the same way it does in business that ain't good.. this isn't playing lemonade stand for selling hot dogs to get a positive cash flow. The point of investing in a sports team is you know without a doubt the value is appreciating greatly with the rest of the NFL. They're growing equity. These things aren't supposed to be invested in as cash cows. Heck. The sale of the Panthers already doubled the Pegula's investment. Business is going great for them. Also, someone posted this earlier, but I don't think they have the same relative business acumen of other owners. They owned a plot of land that struck rich. Arthur Blank by comparison started Home Depot. Edited February 27, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P
BillyWhiteShows Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I said that RB absolutely needed to be fired. I believe that some of those others needed to go as well. That doesn’t change the fact that they are turning over senior level people at an unparalleled level. They are the ones that hired these people in many cases!! The last guy was there a month. I didn’t even name them all. The average pro sports franchise probably has 12 or so people at the “senior level” between on and off the field (maybe a little more). They have cycled through people at a rate that no other team has. The Pelicans/Saints are a similar structure. They have turned over 3 people at that level since 2012 (if my memory is correct). They fired the VP of sponsorship in like 2015, Monty Williams (HC Pelicans) around then and Dell Demps (GM Pelicans) this year. Every other department head remains and outside of Monty Williams the people were replaced internally. The Pegulas have been through 20 or so people at that level in a similar time frame. What is happening at PSE is not normal. Well I think the problem with the Bills, specifically, has been bad hiring and not knowing what to look for in effective football people. They seemed to have been swindled by poor hires and bad decisions and I bet they know it, which is why they had been talking to Polian in 2016. My hope is that they made a good choice in Beane and McDermott and can finally have the success and stability the team has been chasing for 20 years
BringBackOrton Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: That's my take as well. @JohnnyGold made a reference to Russ Brandon's lingering presence. That may well be but the rate at which they are turning people over is alarming. Aren't they in the middle of two huge arena/stadium projects? Weren't some of these people hired recently to oversee those projects because of their level of expertise? I can't see how you get good people to work for you when you go through senior people this abruptly. If Promo is concerned, we’re *****.
vorpma Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 Yup 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: That's my take as well. @JohnnyGold made a reference to Russ Brandon's lingering presence. That may well be but the rate at which they are turning people over is alarming. Aren't they in the middle of two huge arena/stadium projects? Weren't some of these people hired recently to oversee those projects because of their level of expertise? I can't see how you get good people to work for you when you go through senior people this abruptly. Yup, always hang onto dead weight and non - productive individuals until it is so bad you have to fire them, great business model!
billsfan_34 Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 Kim has her hooks too deep in the Sabres- they are an absolute dumpster fire. 8 years of a rebuild with no playoffs is disgusting. 2 hours ago, BarleyNY said: Home attendance averages, Sabres: 16-17: 18,141 17-18: 18,563 18-19: 17,888 That seems like a big dip in attendance for a team that just improved its record substantially. The reasoning could be nothing more than this. 18-19 should drop more this last 1/4 of the season will be a joke. Housley is an absolute lousy coach.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said: Well I think the problem with the Bills, specifically, has been bad hiring and not knowing what to look for in effective football people. They seemed to have been swindled by poor hires and bad decisions and I bet they know it, which is why they had been talking to Polian in 2016. My hope is that they made a good choice in Beane and McDermott and can finally have the success and stability the team has been chasing for 20 years I hope that you are right and don’t necessarily disagree that Beane and McDermott May be the right people. Any way you slice it though they have cycled through hockey people, football people and business people at a crazy rate. I hope that they get the right people in place and develop some stability. It’s going to be hard to recruit the top people into those roles knowing that the “average lifespan” at PSE is far less than the other places recruiting the same people. You don’t want that to be your reputation.
BarleyNY Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, BillyWhiteShows said: The team was also horrible in 17-18. I am sure that fans didn’t have a ton on interest in renewing season tickets That could certainly have a lot to do with it. Season tickets sales are usually the giant driver for overall ticket sales. But I’d wager that a big part of the jobs of the people fired was to overcome that. They were getting compensated very, very well to perform and they didn’t. The just paid the price for their results. Some jobs are like that.
eball Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I know that I’ll take heat for this but I don’t believe that the Pegula’s know what they are doing on that end. I don’t know the people that were fired (but know a little about Popko). The Pegula’s can’t continously turn over their senior level executives!! That’s crazy. There are A LOT of pro franchises that have had their senior leadership in place for 10 to 15 or even 20 years. This one guy didn’t make it a month!! What ends up happening is you spend all of your time trying to get someone up to speed to fill a role that is above their current pay grade. Think about out how many senior level executives have been let go by the Pegula’s since they started with the Sabres? Black, Brandon, Darcy, Ruff, Bylsma, Popko, Rex, Whaley, Rossi, Muhleman, those 2 guys last month, the guy at Harbor Center and so on... I hope that this is a part of a bigger issue. If these people are tied to a problem it at least makes sense. If this is just turnover for turnover’s sake it is a problem. 17 hours ago, MJS said: Lot's of people pretending that they know what they are talking about. Face it. We don't know why these individuals were fired. Jumping to conclusions and speculating is stupid. Perhaps they were great moves, perhaps they were foolish moves. We'll never know. And, BTW, winning and losing has nothing to do with these management positions. If the Sabres are winning does that mean their marketing director is effective? These are purely business moves and have nothing to do with the product on the FIELD. I'm in the middle of these two posts. I think the PSE executives have very little to do with the product on the field/ice, but I agree that tons of turnover could be a signal of a larger management issue. I think it's very relevant that these moves have apparently come after Kim's overall evaluation of the organization that began last May.
MrEpsYtown Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, JMF2006 said: It usually costs a hell of lot more to fire a CEO/COO/CAO than firing the janitor. They all have golden parachute clauses in their contracts which adds up to mega departure payments. The fact that the Pegulas are willing to eat these costs and fire people actually makes me happy. If they know they didn't hire the right people and they are willing to eat costs just to get rid of them, tells me they are willing to do whatever it takes to get things right. But it does show they must be doing something wrong that they haven't been able to get it right.
YoloinOhio Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 Too bad this didn’t work out, we would have none of these PSE issues! 2
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Too bad this didn’t work out, we would have none of these PSE issues! Based upon your regret expressed, might I suggest you take a flying f*** at a rolling donut. ? * ‘In other news today, by executive order, downtown Buffalo was designated as the new federal nuclear waste dump for the United States. Unnamed sources indicate a voice was heard from behind Oval Office doors, shouting “Let’s see them sell seat licenses for that!” ‘ Edited February 27, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013 Nuclear? New-cue-lar? 1
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, vorpma said: Yup Yup, always hang onto dead weight and non - productive individuals until it is so bad you have to fire them, great business model! But what does it say when you hire/elevate someone and then fire them a month later? If they are "dead weight" why were they given that executive role in the first place?
JMF2006 Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 If the Donald had bought the Bills he would have have fired everyone and then tried to fire the fans 1
vorpma Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 29 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: But what does it say when you hire/elevate someone and then fire them a month later? If they are "dead weight" why were they given that executive role in the first place? In my world it means the hired individual did not work out as intended; it happens!
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, vorpma said: In my world it means the hired individual did not work out as intended; it happens! But when it happens repeatedly, you have to ask yourself why.
boater Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 5 hours ago, JMF2006 said: They all have golden parachute clauses in their contracts which adds up to mega departure payments. All I got when I was hired was a golden shower clause. Not looking forward to termination.. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 18 minutes ago, boater said: All I got when I was hired was a golden shower clause. Not looking forward to termination.. You're lucky. Normally that happens during employment.
vorpma Posted February 27, 2019 Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: But when it happens repeatedly, you have to ask yourself why. Maybe, maybe not; get over it, no big deal!
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