SoCal Deek Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Historic day! The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. That certainly would be historic. I agree. ALL Civil officers should be removed!
snafu Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 This whole, so called: “public portion of the investigative phase” feels so strange. It is so one-sided. It is likely to hit a dead end even if it progresses to an impeachment vote and on to the Senate. It has all the earmarks of a political show to smear the President ahead of the full blown election season — and actually deep into the 2020 race. I think that’s part of the ploy here — roll out this first part slowly and partisan so that the process takes even longer to play out. The people who already hate the President will dig deeper into their position. I suppose the Democrats in Congress are also hoping to sway independents against Trump, that’s why the press keeps reporting poll numbers about independents. But if that’s their goal, it would seem that they take inspdependents for fools. Nobody should be comfortable with the way this obviously tilted process is playing out. Dems might win over independents if (I) the process was fair and (ii)if it allowed the President or his proxies to mount any sort of defense and (iii) in conclusion the President did something wrong. Im open to that. Unfortunately, since (so far) this is a railroad job, nobody is going to be swayed, not yet. It also occurs to me that the House Democrats are being hypocritical. They can’t make any coherent case that an actual crime has occurred. They can repeat the words “extortion” and “bribery” all they want, but that’s not what happened here. And if it is what happened here, then I’m sure that there are innumerable cases when prior Presidents used leverage in dealing with foreign heads of state. A fair response to that is that impeachment doesn’t require a criminal act. Well if that’s true (and I don’t deny it) then impeachment is much more of a political act. And since the Senate is not going to convict unless there’s more than what’s being presented by the House, this turns out to be a political act to smear the President during his re-election cycle. That’s exactly the charge against Trump (smearing the former VP). If this his post sounds obvious to you, then it is probably obvious to a lot of the country that’s following along. And if that’s the case, I really don’t know why the Democrats in the House are traveling this road. It smacks of desperation. And if they stop now, they look like fools — so they have to play this game right out to the end. 4
keepthefaith Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, snafu said: This whole, so called: “public portion of the investigative phase” feels so strange. It is so one-sided. It is likely to hit a dead end even if it progresses to an impeachment vote and on to the Senate. It has all the earmarks of a political show to smear the President ahead of the full blown election season — and actually deep into the 2020 race. I think that’s part of the ploy here — roll out this first part slowly and partisan so that the process takes even longer to play out. The people who already hate the President will dig deeper into their position. I suppose the Democrats in Congress are also hoping to sway independents against Trump, that’s why the press keeps reporting poll numbers about independents. But if that’s their goal, it would seem that they take inspdependents for fools. Nobody should be comfortable with the way this obviously tilted process is playing out. Dems might win over independents if (I) the process was fair and (ii)if it allowed the President or his proxies to mount any sort of defense and (iii) in conclusion the President did something wrong. Im open to that. Unfortunately, since (so far) this is a railroad job, nobody is going to be swayed, not yet. It also occurs to me that the House Democrats are being hypocritical. They can’t make any coherent case that an actual crime has occurred. They can repeat the words “extortion” and “bribery” all they want, but that’s not what happened here. And if it is what happened here, then I’m sure that there are innumerable cases when prior Presidents used leverage in dealing with foreign heads of state. A fair response to that is that impeachment doesn’t require a criminal act. Well if that’s true (and I don’t deny it) then impeachment is much more of a political act. And since the Senate is not going to convict unless there’s more than what’s being presented by the House, this turns out to be a political act to smear the President during his re-election cycle. That’s exactly the charge against Trump (smearing the former VP). If this his post sounds obvious to you, then it is probably obvious to a lot of the country that’s following along. And if that’s the case, I really don’t know why the Democrats in the House are traveling this road. It smacks of desperation. And if they stop now, they look like fools — so they have to play this game right out to the end. It's a blatantly dishonest and politically orchestrated proceeding. It is an example of our government at its very worst. Gosh what a better country we'd be if they just worked on some fiscal disciplines, put a lid on illegal immigration and made some sweeping changes to health insurance regulations rather than consuming what has been invested in electing 536 people to their positions on this impeachment horse *****. Edited November 13, 2019 by keepthefaith 3
Tiberius Posted November 13, 2019 Author Posted November 13, 2019 46 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: It's a blatantly dishonest and politically orchestrated proceeding. It is an example of our government at its very worst. Gosh what a better country we'd be if they just worked on some fiscal disciplines, put a lid on illegal immigration and made some sweeping changes to health insurance regulations rather than consuming what has been invested in electing 536 people to their positions on this impeachment horse *****. I think it shows the system working exactly as its suppose to
keepthefaith Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I think it shows the system working exactly as its suppose to False, you don't think.
Warren Zevon Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Good opening statement so far Fact after fact 1
Nanker Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 What is Adam Gase doing addressing Congress? 1
Bob in Mich Posted November 13, 2019 Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, snafu said: This whole, so called: “public portion of the investigative phase” feels so strange. It is so one-sided. It is likely to hit a dead end even if it progresses to an impeachment vote and on to the Senate. It has all the earmarks of a political show to smear the President ahead of the full blown election season — and actually deep into the 2020 race. I think that’s part of the ploy here — roll out this first part slowly and partisan so that the process takes even longer to play out. The people who already hate the President will dig deeper into their position. I suppose the Democrats in Congress are also hoping to sway independents against Trump, that’s why the press keeps reporting poll numbers about independents. But if that’s their goal, it would seem that they take inspdependents for fools. Nobody should be comfortable with the way this obviously tilted process is playing out. Dems might win over independents if (I) the process was fair and (ii)if it allowed the President or his proxies to mount any sort of defense and (iii) in conclusion the President did something wrong. Im open to that. Unfortunately, since (so far) this is a railroad job, nobody is going to be swayed, not yet. It also occurs to me that the House Democrats are being hypocritical. They can’t make any coherent case that an actual crime has occurred. They can repeat the words “extortion” and “bribery” all they want, but that’s not what happened here. And if it is what happened here, then I’m sure that there are innumerable cases when prior Presidents used leverage in dealing with foreign heads of state. A fair response to that is that impeachment doesn’t require a criminal act. Well if that’s true (and I don’t deny it) then impeachment is much more of a political act. And since the Senate is not going to convict unless there’s more than what’s being presented by the House, this turns out to be a political act to smear the President during his re-election cycle. That’s exactly the charge against Trump (smearing the former VP). If this his post sounds obvious to you, then it is probably obvious to a lot of the country that’s following along. And if that’s the case, I really don’t know why the Democrats in the House are traveling this road. It smacks of desperation. And if they stop now, they look like fools — so they have to play this game right out to the end. Good Post. I disagree on several fronts but, well stated. I am an Independent but have been of the opinion that this impeachment process should move forward. Most certainly, it is a political process that only loosely resembles assembling charges or putting on a criminal trial. Those that are unaware may be honestly upset but those knowledgeable of the process should stop throwing out this chaff. Claiming it is one-sided is true but there are 2 main reasons for that. I am sure that you are aware that this is not really yet the trial phase. That will happen in the Senate. In this phase, Democratic 'prosecutors' are making their case to bring charges to the representatives in the House. The House will likely eventually vote to (or not to) send the charges to the Senate for the trial phase. I believe that the defense will then be able to call whoever they wish, especially since the Republicans control the Senate. The other reason we don't have the Republican side of the story is that the President's defenders have defied subpeonas to testify to the House committees. There were no transcripts released from the president's soldiers because they are afraid to go under oath and testify, just like their leader. It seems to me that they are afraid of perjury. Would you want to get folks under oath speaking on your behalf if you were guilty? How about if you were innocent? Those answers should be telling to an unbiased observer. Presidents have historically overstepped their authority, that is true. Differences here are that Trump's actions appear to be for personal political gain, as opposed to being in the interests of our country. He also continues to see election interference by foreigners as acceptable. He has repeatedly proved that point. Foreign election interference taints the upcoming election. That must be stopped cold. Perhaps if the Congressional Republicans had a spine to stand up to this president, the whole impeachment process would be unnecessary. As it is today, there appears to me to be a severe integrity shortage in the Republican party in Congress. Edited November 14, 2019 by Bob in Mich
Tiberius Posted November 13, 2019 Author Posted November 13, 2019 Kent has quit the pedigree! That's right, 2014 Revolution was against the Russian puppet government
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