Koko78 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, JohnC said: The conflict as I see it is if the tape was impermissibly obtained and violated the right of the owner of the facility who has the primary standing (as you describe it) I don't see how the proceeds of that supposedly impermissible surveillance could be used against Kraft. As you noted there are standard undercover procedures that are used to arrest johns in solicitation type scenarios. This goes way beyond that. If the basis of the warrant related to human trafficking and it was determined that in fact there was no human trafficking then I don't see how the authorities would pursue a legal action against Kraft whose primary offense is having a high profile. You're talking about two different sets of rights. Violating the rights of the property owner is not the same thing as violating Kraft's rights. They are not linked. I've given several examples to that effect. The person with a protected interest can seek suppression of illegal evidence, when the person who does not have a protected interest cannot have the same evidence suppressed against them. It's not all or nothing. Not being able to show that there was actual human trafficking going on, as I have plainly stated, is not - by itself - a way to get the warrant tossed. If the cops had probable cause to seek a warrant, and the evidence later does not pan out does NOT invalidate the warrant absent fraud or misrepresentations by the government to get the warrant. 22 minutes ago, JohnC said: I have had some experience with the criminal justice system in the DC area. I'm confident that if there were legal questions of search and seizure issues regarding such a lower misdemeanor charge against anyone (high profile or not) the case would be quickly dismissed. Florida is certainly not DC and has a different legal culture than the more liberal DC system. But if I had to wager a bet I would say that Kraft will prevail in this case. We shall see.
ricko1112 Posted April 16, 2019 Posted April 16, 2019 On 2/22/2019 at 11:52 AM, YoloinOhio said: Yup While this might have been mentioned in one of the other thousands of posts about this, I'll remind everyone that the sheriff admitted that there never was any human trafficking. Despite the fleeting embarrassment this will soon be forgotten. He paid less than the dinner and a movie it costs most of us to get any action...
Doc Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 8 hours ago, iinii said: Which is exactly what I was saying. Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing. 7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Oh man! You always do come around doc... Anyway. Maybe that Palm Beach DA, after finally conceding what many had concluded WEEKS ago regarding "human trafficking" at the spa, will be free to help OJ "find the real killers" of Brown and Goldman. And it's not really "burying with paperwork" when your lawyer is simply doing a very basic defense--which is ALWAYS challenging the evidence. It's literally what every legal commenter everywhere said was the weakness of this case from day one. LOL "paperwork". There's never anything for me to come around to, WEO. OTOH all these years when a Bills player got into trouble, you got all uppity when they didn't admit guilt from the outset and tried to fight charges like Bobby is (rightly) trying to do here. But since you don't consider him a "POS" you have no problem with him doing it. That's what makes you a hypocrite. As for the case itself, judging by the latest laughable excuse ("it would be pornography!"), it doesn't appear to be going too well for Bobby. If you held him to the same standards you hold others, you'd have been screaming for him to take his lumps weeks ago. 4 hours ago, ricko1112 said: While this might have been mentioned in one of the other thousands of posts about this, I'll remind everyone that the sheriff admitted that there never was any human trafficking. Despite the fleeting embarrassment this will soon be forgotten. He paid less than the dinner and a movie it costs most of us to get any action... Video lasts forever.
Mr. WEO Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 5 hours ago, JohnC said: What I find most baffling is not that the police applied for a warrant but that the judge actually signed the warrant when there were so many sketchy details about the case. I agree with you about Kraft having the standing to challenge the taping. If the tape is going to be used against him how could he not have standing? At least that is how I see it. Your perspective in this case is the same as mine. That is troubling. “Luke....I am your faaaather” lol
ricko1112 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, Doc said: Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing. There's never anything for me to come around to, WEO. OTOH all these years when a Bills player got into trouble, you got all uppity when they didn't admit guilt from the outset and tried to fight charges like Bobby is (rightly) trying to do here. But since you don't consider him a "POS" you have no problem with him doing it. That's what makes you a hypocrite. As for the case itself, judging by the latest laughable excuse ("it would be pornography!"), it doesn't appear to be going too well for Bobby. If you held him to the same standards you hold others, you'd have been screaming for him to take his lumps weeks ago. Video lasts forever. I'll watch it. We all will. We'll cringe and make jokes, but you know how this will go right? He's a 77 year old widower... Murdering an ex-wife and her boyfriend is a little bit more serious don't you think? Maybe re-evaluate your comment in the morning? I'm a bit tipsy too...
Fires Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 not going back on postings, but who called it Marin County....... It's Martin County....... I spent 28 years there in the Fire Department.
#34fan Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, Fires said: not going back on postings, but who called it Marin County....... It's Martin County....... I spent 28 years there in the Fire Department. Yeah, -Hobo sound is up there too, right?
Doc Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, ricko1112 said: I'll watch it. We all will. We'll cringe and make jokes, but you know how this will go right? He's a 77 year old widower... Murdering an ex-wife and her boyfriend is a little bit more serious don't you think? Maybe re-evaluate your comment in the morning? I'm a bit tipsy too... I'll pass on the video. Just like I did on that "2 girls 1 cup" video. ? And what does OJ have to do with anything?
billieve420 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) I don’t care about any video or this soon to be circus of a trial. Kraft is guilty regardless of how this all plays out. It is a misdemeanor and he should pay a fine for getting caught. If the case gets thrown out due to something the cops done that wasn’t legal that is fine but still makes him guilty in my eyes of soliciting regardless of the outcome. Edited April 17, 2019 by billieve420
Saxum Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 Question should be asked that if a player or NFL front office personnel was caught in similar situation (assume same difference of years between parties) what would the penalty be? Players can get suspended for things which are NOT "illegal" like smoking pot in some areas so it is not the illegality which is the issue
Mr. WEO Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 18 hours ago, Koko78 said: Apparently things that are going well over your head. You were claiming Kraft had "no standing" to challenge the video as evidence. Of course he does. 13 hours ago, Doc said: Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing. There's never anything for me to come around to, WEO. OTOH all these years when a Bills player got into trouble, you got all uppity when they didn't admit guilt from the outset and tried to fight charges like Bobby is (rightly) trying to do here. But since you don't consider him a "POS" you have no problem with him doing it. That's what makes you a hypocrite. As for the case itself, judging by the latest laughable excuse ("it would be pornography!"), it doesn't appear to be going too well for Bobby. If you held him to the same standards you hold others, you'd have been screaming for him to take his lumps weeks ago. Video lasts forever. I wrote in this very thread that he is a POS. But I know you know that--you always change the facts to contort to your narrative (this is well known and documented here). But for you it always comes down to your feelings of personal affront. You can't wrap your head around the possibility that a Bills fan can assert that a famous mistreater of women and/or all around knucklehead (Marshwn!) like McCoy doesn't deserve the love that you can't quit. It makes you write silly things, doc. McCoy will be gone soon. You have to mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for that day. You should start now. 1
Koko78 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: You were claiming Kraft had "no standing" to challenge the video as evidence. Of course he does. I gave a general overview of 4th Amendment law. If you don't want to accept that, that's your business, not my problem. I have no interest in arguing with your google law degree.
Mr. WEO Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, Koko78 said: I gave a general overview of 4th Amendment law. If you don't want to accept that, that's your business, not my problem. I have no interest in arguing with your google law degree. Can you point to anyone anywhere who has also concluded that Kraft has no standing to challenge the video as evidence against him? The DA hasn't made that argument.
Koko78 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 Interesting that you claim to know what the DA is arguing. Love them google law degrees.
iinii Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 15 hours ago, Doc said: Yeah and I'm saying the DA expects them to do this and it means nothing. Duh to them expecting it, but Kraft’s team can drag this thing out way longer than the DAs have time or money for. The DA may have some moral high ground, the law and desire but Kraft has money and better lawyers.
ricko1112 Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Limeaid said: Question should be asked that if a player or NFL front office personnel was caught in similar situation (assume same difference of years between parties) what would the penalty be? Players can get suspended for things which are NOT "illegal" like smoking pot in some areas so it is not the illegality which is the issue A few years ago, Jim Irsay was pulled over for DWI. He was arrested, cuffed, and transported to jail. He was charged with a couple of felonies regarding controlled substances. He had several hundred oxy pills in his car as well as $29K in cash in small bundles in several paper bags. There was also a dead woman found dead of an overdose in his condo. For committing felonies, Irsay was fined $500K and suspended 6 games. For 2 misdemeanors Kraft should receive much less...
Mr. WEO Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Koko78 said: Interesting that you claim to know what the DA is arguing. Love them google law degrees. The appropriateness of the warrant and the admissibility of the tapes as evidence against these 300 men has been a hot topic of legal debate since this story broke 2 months ago. If the defendants have no standing, why is there a debate at all? Do these lawyers know anything about the 4th Amendment??
Doc Posted April 17, 2019 Posted April 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: I wrote in this very thread that he is a POS. But I know you know that--you always change the facts to contort to your narrative (this is well known and documented here). But for you it always comes down to your feelings of personal affront. You can't wrap your head around the possibility that a Bills fan can assert that a famous mistreater of women and/or all around knucklehead (Marshwn!) like McCoy doesn't deserve the love that you can't quit. It makes you write silly things, doc. McCoy will be gone soon. You have to mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for that day. You should start now. "Feelings of personal affront"? LOL! I'm not the one with the history of laughably wrong takes based on players' alleged "mistreatment of women." And even in Bobby's case, while I don't like him (but also don't think he's a POS), I don't think he should face jail time or get much more than a slap on the wrist, but he clearly broke the law and should own up to it, and is trying to use a technicality to get out of it, as if that technicality is what made him illegally pay for sex. And yes, Shady will be gone soon. But Bills players won't. 3 hours ago, Koko78 said: Interesting that you claim to know what the DA is arguing. Love them google law degrees. He knows what the Florida DA is saying but couldn't tell what the Philly DA was saying. Convenient. 1 hour ago, iinii said: Duh to them expecting it, but Kraft’s team can drag this thing out way longer than the DAs have time or money for. The DA may have some moral high ground, the law and desire but Kraft has money and better lawyers. That's not even close to reality. But at this point, the DA isn't spending much time or money on this case: that's all on Bobby's side. And the DA wants the win. It's what they do. The case isn't going to magically disappear because his lawyers keep coming up with lame excuses.
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