Robert Kraft charged in prostitution ring bust ( Update: Kraft legal team accused of lying in court)

[Gugny]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

It's all about the video for Bobby.  Like you said, the "punishment" is a wrist-slap.  The real punishment is the embareassment of the video being made public.

 

4 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

And it'll be all his fault for turning down the State Attorney's generosity.

 

Admitting guilt opens himself up to very unclear, inconsistent punishment from the NFL.  I think he'd be crazy to do that.  It's not unreasonable to think that his legal team will be able to, in the end, have Kraft freed/acquitted of all charges AND keep the video from being released.

 

If they can accomplish that, the NFL really can't do much, if anything, to Kraft.

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

I don't know, but the deal sounds very reasonable to me:

 

 "The Palm Beach State Attorney’s Office confirmed Tuesday that it had offered to drop the misdemeanor charges for soliciting prostitution against Kraft and 24 other men, if they agreed to perform 100 hours community service, attend a class about the negative effects of prostitution, pay a $5,000 fine per count, and admit they would have been found guilty in court".

-Boston.com

 

It's a total wrist-slap.... A mature adult who got caught literally with their pants down takes this deal.

 

 

Yeah that deal was offered over a month ago.  Has anyone taken it?

5 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Admitting guilt opens himself up to very unclear, inconsistent punishment from the NFL.  I think he'd be crazy to do that.  It's not unreasonable to think that his legal team will be able to, in the end, have Kraft freed/acquitted of all charges AND keep the video from being released.

 

If they can accomplish that, the NFL really can't do much, if anything, to Kraft.

 

 

They weren't even required to admit guilt (that would have been simply pleading to the initial charges against them).

 

They are being offered "no charge" deal, but have to say publicly that they would have been found guilty at trial.. Obviously that offer made all their lawyers say:  "LOL, nah".

[Rocky Landing]

15 hours ago, JohnC said:

Again, you are missing the point. I don't care if those arrested are destitute or billionaires. This case for a minimally charged violation may involve legally questionable "pretext" traffic stops and a questionable surveillance application/warrant. This case should be dropped not only for the prominent rich guy but also for the other nondescript defendants who lack resources. In addition, those people in a private setting who were video taped without their knowledge should be upset. And don't be surprised if they legally respond to this intrusion into their private dealings.

 

With respect to the second highlighted segment related to the application of the same standard under the law that concept also applies to the legal authorities. What Kraft and his legal representatives are challenging is how the police conducted themselves. Are you against him having the right to do so? Are you arguing that the police authorities couldn't/shouldn't be challenged? If you are then you have an odd interpretation of the rights of the accused, rich or poor.  

 

 

 

   

These are all good points. I am certainly NOT against challenging how the police conduct themselves. And, more than anything, the videotaping in a place where people should be able to have a reasonable expectation of privacy is disturbing. But, of course, video surveillance occurs all the time in places where there is a reasonable suspicion of a felony, and as far as I know, the only people who are saying there wasn't a reasonable suspicion are Kraft's lawyers. I believe that goes for all of the technicalities on which they are trying to get this case thrown out. And, I'm just not willing to take their word for it, any more than I am willing to take the DA's word for it. This is what courts are for.

 

One other thing: this is not a "minimally charged violation." It's a misdemeanor-- a crime. In what scenario does a DA offer a deal to have misdemeanor charges dropped, the defendant declines, and the DA drops them anyway? Well, the answer is: when the defendant has so much money that they can make it too costly for the DA to prosecute. And, that is my original point.

[#34fan]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Admitting guilt opens himself up to very unclear, inconsistent punishment from the NFL.  I think he'd be crazy to do that.  It's not unreasonable to think that his legal team will be able to, in the end, have Kraft freed/acquitted of all charges AND keep the video from being released.

 

If they can accomplish that, the NFL really can't do much, if anything, to Kraft.

 

Yah, but if the happy ending is released on video it torpedoes all this legal posturing by Kraft's team... Even if he is eventually acquitted of the charges, the NFL (and everyone else) will have a birds-eye view of everything he did.  -That could lead to punishment from the league regardless of the court's ruling.  -And backlash from people like me, who will print stills of the incident on T-shirts, and wear them to Bills-Pats games.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

Yah, but if the happy ending is released on video it torpedoes all this legal posturing by Kraft's team... Even if he is eventually acquitted of the charges, the NFL (and everyone else) will have a birds-eye view of everything he did.  -That could lead to punishment from the league regardless of the court's ruling.  -And backlash from people like me, who will print stills of the incident on T-shirts, and wear them to Bills-Pats games.

 

Gonna show Krafts O=Face?

 

 

[#34fan]

11 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

Yah, but if the happy ending is released on video it torpedoes all this legal posturing by Kraft's team...

 

I also question the strength of any discipline coming from Kraft's buddy Goodell... He's a filthy rich loveable old fart who just happens to own the league's flagship franchise, and employ the league's darling QB...  I think Kraft's whole fight is about ego, and public perception... -Quite literally, "link or it didn't happen".

[Jobot]

Florida DA is totally screwed in this case.. They basically made false/illegal claim of a sex trafficking claims (which were not true) to illegally obtain videos, and is now leaking information to try and get Kraft to crack and take a plea deal.  Kraft doesn't give a F, and is going to make annihilate them with his legal resources.

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Jobot said:

Florida DA is totally screwed in this case.. They basically made false/illegal claim of a sex trafficking claims (which were not true) to illegally obtain videos, and is now leaking information to try and get Kraft to crack and take a plea deal.  Kraft doesn't give a F, and is going to make annihilate them with his legal resources.

The last paragraph and the last sentence in this link support your comment about the fraudulent basis for the warrant to tape. That's the conclusion made by the Boston Globe who are now disassociating themselves from its initial pursuit of the sex tapes.

 

Kraft and the others caught in the surveillance are not the central issue in this tawdry affair. The bigger issue than paying to be stroked is the inappropriate conduct of the criminal justice authorities. In addition, if there are leaks coming out of the police and prosecuting offices about what's on the tapes and the case in general before there is a trial then that conduct is outrageous and merits an internal investigation. Intimidation and essentially blackmail by the public authorities should not be tolerated. That's where the outrage should be directed towards. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/boston-globe-withdraws-from-legal-fight-to-obtain-robert-kraft-video/ar-AABbEv6

[Doc]

3 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Gonna show Krafts O=Face?

 

 

 

At his age, it's more like a Q face.

 

2 hours ago, Jobot said:

Florida DA is totally screwed in this case.. They basically made false/illegal claim of a sex trafficking claims (which were not true) to illegally obtain videos, and is now leaking information to try and get Kraft to crack and take a plea deal.  Kraft doesn't give a F, and is going to make annihilate them with his legal resources.

 

They weren't able to prove sex trafficking, but there were signs and spas are notorious for this.  But there is absolutely no evidence that the DA investigated under false pretenses.  That's just stuff Bobby's lawyers want you to believe.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

These are all good points. I am certainly NOT against challenging how the police conduct themselves. And, more than anything, the videotaping in a place where people should be able to have a reasonable expectation of privacy is disturbing. But, of course, video surveillance occurs all the time in places where there is a reasonable suspicion of a felony, and as far as I know, the only people who are saying there wasn't a reasonable suspicion are Kraft's lawyers. I believe that goes for all of the technicalities on which they are trying to get this case thrown out. And, I'm just not willing to take their word for it, any more than I am willing to take the DA's word for it. This is what courts are for.

 

One other thing: this is not a "minimally charged violation." It's a misdemeanor-- a crime. In what scenario does a DA offer a deal to have misdemeanor charges dropped, the defendant declines, and the DA drops them anyway? Well, the answer is: when the defendant has so much money that they can make it too costly for the DA to prosecute. And, that is my original point.

 

 

What felony?

 

It's really not going to take truckloads of money to challenge the prosecutors evidence, is it?  Couldn't a PD do the same thing?

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

At his age, it's more like a Q face.

 

 

They weren't able to prove sex trafficking, but there were signs and spas are notorious for this.  But there is absolutely no evidence that the DA investigated under false pretenses.  That's just stuff Bobby's lawyers want you to believe.

 

They knew days, not months after the cameras were rolling that there was no human trafficking, yet the camera kept rolling.  So by the time Booby and the dozens of other perps rolled into view, there was no credible pretense for "proving sex trafficking"....

Edited May 10, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

What felony?

 

It's really not going to take truckloads of money to challenge the prosecutors evidence, is it?  Couldn't a PD do the same thing?

As I understand it, the surveillance warrant was based on a reasonable suspicion of human trafficking. As far as I know, the only people disputing that are Kraft's lawyers.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

As I understand it, the surveillance warrant was based on a reasonable suspicion of human trafficking. As far as I know, the only people disputing that are Kraft's lawyers.

 

 

As far as I know, none of the other dozens of those charged have taken the plea offer.  And a similar sting in a nearby county just saw the video evidence tossed by the court.

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

As far as I know, none of the other dozens of those charged have taken the plea offer.  And a similar sting in a nearby county just saw the video evidence tossed by the court.

Interesting to hear about the nearby county. I believe I skimmed an article (in Rolling Stone, maybe?) that had words about there being spurious warrants in FLA regarding prostitution. It's hard for me to make assumptions about police misconduct based on the statements made by the lawyers of billionaires. But, I believe that Rolling Stone has a pretty goos record regarding investigative journalism. I'm on the fence regarding Kraft-- at least, as it applies to this thread.

 

That being said, as someone who is squarely middle class (albeit, in Los Angeles, where the cost of living is quite high), a $5,000 fine, 100 hours of community service, and a bogus class would strike me as cheaper than a competent lawyer (which might not pan out), or the problems that come with a criminal conviction.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Interesting to hear about the nearby county. I believe I skimmed an article (in Rolling Stone, maybe?) that had words about there being spurious warrants in FLA regarding prostitution. It's hard for me to make assumptions about police misconduct based on the statements made by the lawyers of billionaires. But, I believe that Rolling Stone has a pretty goos record regarding investigative journalism. I'm on the fence regarding Kraft-- at least, as it applies to this thread.

 

That being said, as someone who is squarely middle class (albeit, in Los Angeles, where the cost of living is quite high), a $5,000 fine, 100 hours of community service, and a bogus class would strike me as cheaper than a competent lawyer (which might not pan out), or the problems that come with a criminal conviction.

 

 

You would think.  But he (and others) smell blood in the water and don't want to admit guilt (or that "they would have been found guilty in court") yet...

 

Also, many defense lawyers quoted in the press as far back as a week after the bust were commenting that the video could be challenged.  It's not just "billionaire's lawyers".  It's a lot of legal commenters saying the same thing since this story broke.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Rocky Landing]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You would think.  But he (and others) smell blood in the water and don't want to admit guilt (or that "they would have been found guilty in court") yet...

 

Also, many defense lawyers quoted in the press as far back as a week after the bust were commenting that the video could be challenged.  It's not just "billionaire's lawyers".  It's a lot of legal commenters saying the same thing since this story broke.

Link?

 

Let me tell ya, having a misdemeanor on your record is a lot more trouble than one might think. I narrowly avoided one some years back, only because a good friend of mine is a lawyer, and handled it for me. But, had I been nailed, I would be kicked off my son's Cub Scout pack as a Scout Leader. I would be barred from entering Canada. Many of my freelance jobs would be at risk. Depending on who you are, a misdemeanor record can be a serious pain in the ass. Even if a decent lawyer cost $2,500 (half the fine), or was even free (not that I would trust a free lawyer!), I don't think I would take the risk.

[LSHMEAB]

18 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Link?

 

Let me tell ya, having a misdemeanor on your record is a lot more trouble than one might think. I narrowly avoided one some years back, only because a good friend of mine is a lawyer, and handled it for me. But, had I been nailed, I would be kicked off my son's Cub Scout pack as a Scout Leader. I would be barred from entering Canada. Many of my freelance jobs would be at risk. Depending on who you are, a misdemeanor record can be a serious pain in the ass. Even if a decent lawyer cost $2,500 (half the fine), or was even free (not that I would trust a free lawyer!), I don't think I would take the risk.

Yeah. We're not big on forgiveness as a society. Sad really that people get shunned for one instant of poor judgement, but I digress. Kraft should fight tooth and nail as should every defendant.

[Ol Dirty B]

49 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yeah. We're not big on forgiveness as a society. Sad really that people get shunned for one instant of poor judgement, but I digress. Kraft should fight tooth and nail as should every defendant.

 

How'd everyone treat Tiger or Kobe? Society forgives much more than you think. Segments never will because of predisposed individual biases. Half the country looked the other way at the height of me too stuff for Trump. Mike Tyson is almost regarded as a likable character now. The Jenner thing killed someone and got some ESPN life time award within a year.

 

Universal forgiveness is never possible. People may not like JR Smith but it's rarely because he was responsible for a friends death. What I'd say is more unfortunate is that some success or largely inconsequential factors are the reason for forgiveness. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[LSHMEAB]

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

How'd everyone treat Tiger or Kobe? Society forgives much more than you think. Segments never will because of predisposed individual biases. Half the country looked the other way at the height of me too stuff for Trump. Mike Tyson is almost regarded as a likable character now. The Jenner thing killed someone and got some ESPN life time award within a year.

 

Universal forgiveness is never possible. People may not like JR Smith but it's rarely because he was responsible for a friends death. What I'd say is more unfortunate is that some success or largely inconsequential factors are the reason for forgiveness. 

Yeah. People tend to forgive those with means. I was responding to a more personal account from someone I assume is not a celebrity or a multi-millionaire. 

 

Kraft has nothing to worry about, but I still support his right to exhaust every legal recourse(even if it's yet another example of money talking in the judicial system). This is a petty offense as far as I'm concerned.

[SinceThe70s]

19 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

How'd everyone treat Tiger or Kobe? Society forgives much more than you think. Segments never will because of predisposed individual biases. Half the country looked the other way at the height of me too stuff for Trump. Mike Tyson is almost regarded as a likable character now. The Jenner thing killed someone and got some ESPN life time award within a year.

 

Universal forgiveness is never possible. People may not like JR Smith but it's rarely because he was responsible for a friends death. What I'd say is more unfortunate is that some success or largely inconsequential factors are the reason for forgiveness. 

 

I think we live in a very forgiving society. Two things that often factor into forgiveness are a show of contrition and time. Neither one is on Kraft's side right now. 

[HOUSE]

LTS

 

Lingering Thread Syndrome

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by HOUSE